Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[Riedquat]

2 hours ago, BearlyBegun said:

Today the BBC reports

Staff shortages are pushing up pay, recruiters say

The survey says that pay rates for both permanent and temporary staff are rising quickly due to a continuing fall in the number of job applicants.

The report's suggestion that pay rates for permanent jobs are now rising as a result, and are at a 20-month high, will raise some eyebrows.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40853467

Oh dear, better pay, sounds terrible. Has there ever been an occasion in history where a shortage of labour, for whatever reason, has been bad for the average person? Bad for those at the top, sure, but the rest of us?

[dugsbody]

19 hours ago, debtlessmanc said:

Just for a start- the population of the US is 300M and have you been there? It is really really crap being poor their, no healthcare, only food stamps. People move to work or to live in the west coast so they can sleep outdoors overnight and not freeze. If we were like the states the uk would be full of highly qualified people and the southern countries would be full of the unemployable. The only reason to immigrate into the states is to work. 

Other than that of course we are cynical about the figures on the economic benefits of immigrants. No one can afford houses and the only jobs for the young born/educated in this country are minimum wage ones. Immigrants can only make those situations worse.

In which case, I trust you'll join me in petitioning for controlling borders around the regions of the UK. It isn't fair that Londoners wages are suppressed and can't afford houses because of mass immigration from Shropshiremen and the other funny accented places. Local jobs for local Londoners! Local houses for local Londoners! Take back control. We send £500 million to the rest of UK each year week. Let's fund our struggling brunch industry instead. 

Edited August 8, 2017 by dugsbody

[ZeroSumGame]

1 hour ago, Riedquat said:

Oh dear, better pay, sounds terrible. Has there ever been an occasion in history where a shortage of labour, for whatever reason, has been bad for the average person? Bad for those at the top, sure, but the rest of us?

Cant have Average Joe getting a decent pay rise now can we? Awaits the calls for more immigration ....... and, as if by magic.......

Quote

Ruth Davidson challenges Theresa May to drop 'easy slogan' of cutting immigration to 'tens of thousands'                  ...Independent

Quote

Ms Davidson warned that “with the country on the road to full employment, potential for growth is facing ever greater limitations” without the boost from immigrants.

Don't want the proles to get ideas above their pay-packet do we? After all it's only 8 years without a rise for some folk.

And to end on a nice note : Sainsbury's have announce a 4.4% pay increase for their staff over and above any other bonuses they may have received. 

[Sheeple Splinter]

13 hours ago, jonb2 said:

I saw that Sheeple. In fact it's one of my pet subjects along with the power of Wall Street to enslave and destory.

1. In another post, you brought up that Ireland's economy depends on Apple's goodwill. They were terrified of the EU fine doing serious damage. All US tech companies are now TAKERS.

2. If I was in charge, in the name of 'self-determination' - I would ban all non-tax-paying American Megacorps from being here. Do you think the UK government, in the interests of 'self-determination' and without EU governence are going to be:

a. More complicit with Wall Street?

B. Less complicit with Wall Street?

Answers on a postcard.

Google, Apple, Amazon, Facebook do nothing for us except burn our time on undermining our brains and make us spend more.

1. They really weren't - as per Silicon Valley programme.

2. No need to ban, just ensure the UK has a robust tax regime.

The Megacorps et al, have their roving tentacles spread globally, including the EU.

Quote

...Take, for example, the case of Jan Eric Frydman who was appointed as Special Adviser for trade policy and transatlantic affairs to Trade Commissioner Cecilia Malmström, despite the fact that at the time he was a partner in the Swedish law firm Ekenberg & Andersson, where he led the transatlantic practice. For the commissioner responsible for negotiating a major trade deal with the US (TTIP) to appoint a lawyer with transatlantic clients, seemed reckless, in our view. Frydman was simply told that there should be “no link with cases related to his activities as a lawyer”....

https://corporateeurope.org/power-lobbies/2017/07/ombudsman-turns-heat-commission-over-special-advisers

Then there is the massive Lobby industry in Brussels...

[ExiledMatty]

17 hours ago, thecrashingisles said:

23 hours ago, ExiledMatty said:

Because the Canzuk nations are more equal in terms of wealth, standard of living and the will and ability of migrants to make an effort to fit in. Having a common language and shared history obviously helps too.

Would you expel Quebec from your Canzuk federation?

Of course not. The common language is only one aspect. Most French Canadians are bilingual anyway.

[Futuroid]

11 hours ago, dugsbody said:

In which case, I trust you'll join me in petitioning for controlling borders around the regions of the UK. It isn't fair that Londoners wages are suppressed and can't afford houses because of mass immigration from Shropshiremen and the other funny accented places. Local jobs for local Londoners! Local houses for local Londoners! Take back control. We send £500 million to the rest of UK each year week. Let's fund our struggling brunch industry instead. 

I couldn't agree more - but while we are at it, what about all these dirty South Londoners coming over the river and stealing the god given jobs of the North Londoners? And don't even get me started about the Essex mob, seeping into the capital with their disgusting customs and estuary accent. I was dining in South Ken last week and all I could hear was Essex patois from the table behind - outrageous.

[Chunketh]

17 hours ago, Riedquat said:

Yet still a much better result than any in the past

Call it what it is, a hideous result. It just shows how forgetful people are of what happens when you put a far right ***hole in charge.

Not that far left is any better.

[pig]

On 07/08/2017 at 9:06 PM, Sheeple Splinter said:

1. No, it is about controlled immigration. I've no idea why it requires dog whistling racist/xenophobic chants from you. Happy to discuss the merits of controlled immigration if you are up to it?

2. Brexit would be consolation in itself...

1.  I don't think so.  If you're 'clever' enough to twist my posts in this way then you have a very clear 'idea'.  We have spent a chunk of pages of Leaver carping and whining about continentals and about how they feel they have more in common with white anglophone countries
2. This has been followed by the apparent consolation of CANZUK  for the calamity of  cutting ourselves off from the continent 

 

[TheCountOfNowhere]

16 hours ago, BearlyBegun said:

Today the BBC reports

Staff shortages are pushing up pay, recruiters say

The survey says that pay rates for both permanent and temporary staff are rising quickly due to a continuing fall in the number of job applicants.

The report's suggestion that pay rates for permanent jobs are now rising as a result, and are at a 20-month high, will raise some eyebrows.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40853467

immigration pushes down wages...who'd a thought it.

[jonb2]

11 hours ago, Sheeple Splinter said:

1. In another post, you brought up that Ireland's economy depends on Apple's goodwill. They were terrified of the EU fine doing serious damage. All US tech companies are now TAKERS.

I should have been clearer about this - I meant the Irish, not Apple.

On another point - yes, I know about the EU being far from whiter than white re: lobbying and other bent stuff - I've said this many times.

But on the basis that your enemy's enemy is your friend - the EU is 10x better than anything American for an allegiance. I have said it before, this government will ceratinly get closer to the US now and all those tidy deals with the US megacorps will accelerate. Things like Google sponsoring our schools and paying us for patient data, Amazon getting subsidies for creating brilliant jobs, Apple for the honour of their retail centre in London (more great jobs) etc, - and these are just the tech co's  - the banks are already here and their trough muzzles will be removed by a weaker admin and country.

The only thing that may change this is Corbyn. Since we have left the EU - we might as well everyhting up in the air.

 

 

[BearlyBegun]

15 hours ago, Riedquat said:

Oh dear, better pay, sounds terrible. Has there ever been an occasion in history where a shortage of labour, for whatever reason, has been bad for the average person? Bad for those at the top, sure, but the rest of us?

Quite. I'm all for pay rises, especially at the lower end!

I found it quite odd really, the tone of the BBC article presents this as terrible news or something...

[debtlessmanc]

16 hours ago, Riedquat said:

Oh dear, better pay, sounds terrible. Has there ever been an occasion in history where a shortage of labour, for whatever reason, has been bad for the average person? Bad for those at the top, sure, but the rest of us?

Indeed the black death lead to such shortages of labour that ordinary people were pressed into professional roles like judge (the jury system dates to then, the judges had nearly all died so the king told people to just get 12 locals together and hold a court ) and other professions too, the pay rose as opportunities opened up for hard working average people. When things improved and the king got tired of all these uppity folk and started putting them back were the belonged he got the "peasants revolt" nearly a full blown revolution which was really a middle class revolution, as they nearly always are.

flooding cheap labour into a country is the easiest way to keep the oiks down there is and both parties have been implicit in it. of course the middle classes at the moment are happy to get their extension built cheaply, its when their kids cannot anything worth working for that things will kick off - its starting to happen.

[debtlessmanc]

meanwhile the darling of the left - Macron doesnt want any cheap eastern european labour in france, thank you very much

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-easteurope-macron-idUSKBN1AN1G9

This is a very real problem for the rest of western europe now the UK wants out. I think it is the reason behind the very strong message about protecting EU 'citizens" in the UK

the visegrad states citizens see FOM (out of their countries) as the main attraction of the EU and are very p*****d off that one of the most attractive destinations, the UK, might be raising a drawbridge.

meanwhile french people  (or any other southern europeans for that matter) do not want competition from cheap, effective, EE labour. If they leave the UK it will be many times worse for them, trained english speaking, outward looking EE workers searching for work somewhere that pays better than home.

This isnt why i am skeptial about the EU and i dont wish is it any harm (really) but i do think us leaving is going to the headache of all headaches for them.

[Confusion of VIs]

2 hours ago, pig said:

1.  I don't think so.  If you're 'clever' enough to twist my posts in this way then you have a very clear 'idea'.  We have spent a chunk of pages of Leaver carping and whining about continentals and about how they feel they have more in common with white anglophone countries
2. This has been followed by the apparent consolation of CANZUK  for the calamity of  cutting ourselves off from the continent 

 

Any independent thinking person would look at the GDP numbers (CANZ about 25% of the EU27) and distances involved and conclude that this new grouping could never be a replacement for the EU. It would also, like the UK be too small to have serious negotiating power with the major economies/trade blocks so would end up having to hang on the coattails of either the EU or US. A rule taker not maker.

So the real question is what drives some Leavers to think that this could a replacement for the EU, or even ever happen given that there is absolutely no reason for the other members to want to join it.

Is it an inability to do the numbers (plenty of evidence that this is a problem for many leavers on this thread) or a fantasy driven by the developing realisation that Brexit is not going to end well.  

[thecrashingisles]

16 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Any independent thinking person would look at the GDP numbers (CANZ about 25% of the EU27) and distances involved and conclude that this new grouping could never be a replacement for the EU. It would also, like the UK be too small to have serious negotiating power with the major economies/trade blocks so would end up having to hang on the coattails of either the EU or US. A rule taker not maker.

So the real question is what drives some Leavers to think that this could a replacement for the EU, or even ever happen given that there is absolutely no reason for the other members to want to join it.

Is it an inability to do the numbers (plenty of evidence that this is a problem for many leavers on this thread) or a fantasy driven by the developing realisation that Brexit is not going to end well.  

Remember you're talking about fantasists.  In their minds you can make up the numbers in CANZUK by including the USA.  After all, it's part of the 'Anglosphere', isn't it?  They didn't really mean it in the war of independence and they're just waiting for England to lead them again.

[Sheeple Splinter]

19 hours ago, BearlyBegun said:

Today the BBC reports

Staff shortages are pushing up pay, recruiters say

The survey says that pay rates for both permanent and temporary staff are rising quickly due to a continuing fall in the number of job applicants.

The report's suggestion that pay rates for permanent jobs are now rising as a result, and are at a 20-month high, will raise some eyebrows.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40853467

Shame the BBC didn't show one example from the mentioned ONS report, let alone any investigation; well, here's one:

 

Edited August 9, 2017 by Sheeple Splinter
typo

[Sheeple Splinter]

3 hours ago, pig said:

1.  I don't think so.  If you're 'clever' enough to twist my posts in this way then you have a very clear 'idea'.  We have spent a chunk of pages of Leaver carping and whining about continentals and about how they feel they have more in common with white anglophone countries
2. This has been followed by the apparent consolation of CANZUK  for the calamity of  cutting ourselves off from the continent 

1. Evidently, I'm not twisting anything. Can you make your point without colour?

2. What are you talking about?

[BearlyBegun]

11 minutes ago, Sheeple Splinter said:

Shame the BBC didn't show one example from the mentioned ONS report, let alone any investigation; well, here's one:

 

The ONS data only covers up to May, whilst they are reporting on a survey of employment agencies during July.

Too early to give any credence to the survey obviously, but perhaps the next ONS report will reflect an up-tick

[Sheeple Splinter]

1 hour ago, jonb2 said:

I should have been clearer about this - I meant the Irish, not Apple.

On another point - yes, I know about the EU being far from whiter than white re: lobbying and other bent stuff - I've said this many times.

But on the basis that your enemy's enemy is your friend - the EU is 10x better than anything American for an allegiance. I have said it before, this government will ceratinly get closer to the US now and all those tidy deals with the US megacorps will accelerate. Things like Google sponsoring our schools and paying us for patient data, Amazon getting subsidies for creating brilliant jobs, Apple for the honour of their retail centre in London (more great jobs) etc, - and these are just the tech co's  - the banks are already here and their trough muzzles will be removed by a weaker admin and country.

The only thing that may change this is Corbyn. Since we have left the EU - we might as well everyhting up in the air.

My mistake 

I really can't see the UK not forging allegiance(s) with the EU. May made that clear in her L.H. speech along with creating or strengthening allegiances with countries around the world.

Corbyn, with a good majority would change far, far more.... 

[Sheeple Splinter]

52 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

meanwhile the darling of the left - Macron doesnt want any cheap eastern european labour in france, thank you very much

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-easteurope-macron-idUSKBN1AN1G9

This is a very real problem for the rest of western europe now the UK wants out. I think it is the reason behind the very strong message about protecting EU 'citizens" in the UK

the visegrad states citizens see FOM (out of their countries) as the main attraction of the EU and are very p*****d off that one of the most attractive destinations, the UK, might be raising a drawbridge.

meanwhile french people  (or any other southern europeans for that matter) do not want competition from cheap, effective, EE labour. If they leave the UK it will be many times worse for them, trained english speaking, outward looking EE workers searching for work somewhere that pays better than home.

This isnt why i am skeptial about the EU and i dont wish is it any harm (really) but i do think us leaving is going to the headache of all headaches for them.

Croatia has recently thrown its hat into the ring too.

[Sheeple Splinter]

45 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Any independent thinking person would look at the GDP numbers (CANZ about 25% of the EU27) and distances involved and conclude that this new grouping could never be a replacement for the EU. It would also, like the UK be too small to have serious negotiating power with the major economies/trade blocks so would end up having to hang on the coattails of either the EU or US. A rule taker not maker.

So the real question is what drives some Leavers to think that this could a replacement for the EU, or even ever happen given that there is absolutely no reason for the other members to want to join it.

Is it an inability to do the numbers (plenty of evidence that this is a problem for many leavers on this thread) or a fantasy driven by the developing realisation that Brexit is not going to end well.  

Please provide a link for the remoaner scenario: all forms of trade with the EU will cease.

Edited August 9, 2017 by Sheeple Splinter
typo

[Sheeple Splinter]

29 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

Remember you're talking about fantasists.  In their minds you can make up the numbers in CANZUK by including the USA.  After all, it's part of the 'Anglosphere', isn't it?  They didn't really mean it in the war of independence and they're just waiting for England to lead them again.

This really reads as; If the UK leaves the EU, I don't want it to succeed.

[Sheeple Splinter]

18 minutes ago, BearlyBegun said:

The ONS data only covers up to May, whilst they are reporting on a survey of employment agencies during July.

Too early to give any credence to the survey obviously, but perhaps the next ONS report will reflect an up-tick

True, but the graph clearly show wages were higher 10 years ago!

[pig]

1 hour ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Any independent thinking person would look at the GDP numbers (CANZ about 25% of the EU27) and distances involved and conclude that this new grouping could never be a replacement for the EU. It would also, like the UK be too small to have serious negotiating power with the major economies/trade blocks so would end up having to hang on the coattails of either the EU or US. A rule taker not maker.

So the real question is what drives some Leavers to think that this could a replacement for the EU, or even ever happen given that there is absolutely no reason for the other members to want to join it.

Is it an inability to do the numbers (plenty of evidence that this is a problem for many leavers on this thread) or a fantasy driven by the developing realisation that Brexit is not going to end well.  

Well its never been about the numbers and its been explicitly spelled out on this thread by a number of Leaver posters that they 'feel' they have plenty in common with the US as well as CANZ but nothing in common with the continent + continentals 'don't fit in'. Pussy footing around with this nonsense does yield a more interesting cultural conversation but evades what seems to be the baser motivation.

[Confusion of VIs]

35 minutes ago, Sheeple Splinter said:

Please provide a link for the remoaner scenario: all forms of trade with the EU will cease.

Has anyone ever said that?

Even if they have neither side can claim the monopoly on fantasists. However, I have heard the CANZUK fantasy many times outside of this thread, usually from people who think our future lies in recreating the past.