The Official Brexit - Remain Thread - All New Threads Will Be Merged Into This One

[FrankCostanza]

Who will be listened to post-Brexit ? The workers kicked off site ? Or the employers screaming for cheap labour ? Can you already hear the speeches about how now we are mercifully free of the 'red tape' we need to 'get the economy going ?' Not to mention the lust for another bubble to crush our wages....

Wages already been crushed with the open door policy mate.

Vote leave, if we don't we don't get another chance.We do get another chance to vote in our nationwide government.

[macfarlan]

+1 on that. What's a poor old lefty going to do when the EU is rightwing? Better leave now.

How very grown up of you. Lol.

Edited June 18, 2016 by macfarlan

[XswampyX]

How very grown up of you. Lol.

So it's not crossed your mind then? When the whole of Europe is right wing, what will the EU be?

Socialist?

[ccc]

How very grown up of you. Lol.

So out of maybe 30 separate individuals who commented recently on this thread - you only think 1 is making sense.

Really ? You maybe being a little blinkered here.....

[Sancho Panza]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/06/17/exclusive-poll-eu-support-falls-after-jo-cox-murder/86031038/

'LONDON — British support for remaining in the European Union has weakened in the wake of the murder of the pro-EU politician Jo Cox, according to an online research company Friday.

Qriously, a London-based technology start-up that gathers data and intelligence about consumers through mobile phone apps, found that backing among likely voters for Britain's EU membership has dropped to 32% from 40% before her death.

The poll was based on 1,992 British adults surveyed on June 13-16, and then 1,002 on June 17 — the day after Cox was shot and killed in northern England. The start-up claims to have held the first such survey on the topic since the lawmaker's slaying. Most of Qriously’s surveys are done for corporate brands and it has not been previously conducted an EU referendum poll.

Respondents were asked: "Imagine the EU referendum were held today. Would you vote for the U.K. to remain a member of the European Union, or leave the European Union?" They were given three options: "Remain in the EU," "Leave the EU," or "Don't know."

Qriously found that 52% will vote to leave the bloc in a national referendum on June 23. The figure is unchanged from before the parliamentarian's death. The weakening support for remaining in the EU coincided with a large move toward "Don't know," which leaped to 16% from 9% before Cox's assassination.

Britons are split over whether to leave the political bloc, but a series of recent polls — all conducted prior to Cox's death — have shown the Leave campaign gaining ground in the closing stages of the race. Political analysts have expressed uncertainly over how Cox's killing would affect the vote. She was an ardent EU supporter.

Tommy Mair, a suspect in the case who has been arrested but not charged, had ties to far-right, anti-immigration and anti-EU groups.

Stephan Shakespeare, the founder and chief executive British polling firm YouGov, told USA TODAY he did not think Cox's murder would lead to a shift in attitudes toward the vote, "but the nature of the campaigning will be changed and that probably will have an impact" on opinion.

"What tends to happen when you have an event of this kind is that the voices of those who feel they are affected by something become quieter. They don't change their minds."

Shakespeare said that the Leave campaign "will have wanted to go very hard on the immigration issue in the final week of the campaign and may find it hard" to do so now. "The Remain camp doesn't really need to be more polite because it doesn't want to talk about immigration. It wants to talk about the economy, where it is much stronger," he added.

The major British polling firms, including YouGov, were expected to release their first EU opinion surveys following Cox's murder over the weekend.'

[Sheeple Splinter]

Great post. Thanks.

You're only poster making any sense on this thread recently.

What's with the negative waves?

Edited June 18, 2016 by Sheeple Splinter

[canbuywontbuy]

The open door immigration policy is literally a racist policy. If you're outside the EU, the Immigration Acts being passed in the last few years have made it ridiculously hard to settle in the UK (if you're outside the EU). I know because I had to take the Home Office to tribunal to appeal their decision for three of my family members being refused renewal of their settlement visas (won the case, but not without spending £6000+ on legal fees). In the end, we're moving out of the UK anyway (and thank goodness).

[ccc]

The open door immigration policy is literally a racist policy. If you're outside the EU, the Immigration Acts being passed in the last few years have made it ridiculously hard to settle in the UK (if you're outside the EU). I know because I had to take the Home Office to tribunal to appeal their decision for three of my family members being refused renewal of their settlement visas (won the case, but not without spending £6000+ on legal fees). In the end, we're moving out of the UK anyway (and thank goodness).

****** off back where you came from !!!

[bobbo]

Voting remain is voting for yourself to get bad cancer.

Voting leave is voting for yourself to get slightly less bad cancer.

I'm going for option #2.

Voting to stay is voting to continue to be the right half of the brain in a body with operable cancer in the foot.

Voting to leave is voting for a lobotomy to cure said cancer.

I choose option 1.

[macfarlan]

So out of maybe 30 separate individuals who commented recently on this thread - you only think 1 is making sense.

Really ?.

Yes. The majority of posts on here don't make sense to me. I cant say Ive read it all, but as another poster alluded to, the thread is very one sided. Edited June 18, 2016 by macfarlan

[macfarlan]

What's with the negative waves?

Kelly's Heroes

How do I insert the video clip instead of URL please?

Crap.

I'm sorry. Not being very helpful. I'll try an make a decent post later.

Edited June 18, 2016 by macfarlan

[pig]

Yes. The majority of posts on here don't make sense to me. I cant say Ive read it all, but as another poster alluded to, the thread very one sided.

To be fair if you sift through the crud and the repetition there are decent pro-Brexit posts. I don't agree with Long time Lurking but am sympathetic.

Also, I was too angry at the time but in hindsight some posts yesterday were hilarious - the ones insisting photos of Mair were fake because he had funny legs you couldn't make up. Straight out of Southpark.

[Errol]

See zerohedge top story for news of the poll showing increase in leave vote.

[long time lurking]

Oh yes lol! Nobody is accusing UKIP of not exploiting the problem !

But you actually believe that the hard right are going to put your interests above their cronys ?

And what is round the corner...Did you know for example that driving is one of most common occupations for men ? That übers profits are siphoned off out of the U.K. ? That they are invested in and gagging to use driverless cars ? Of what fecking use is a points system in the coming job Armageddon ?

As its hpc lets take construction today. Constantly up and down, boom and bust. Gangs of migrant workers on silly wages brought in to kick incumbent workers off site. to save the bacon or greed of somebody upstairs. At the same time housebuilders and for that matter the entire industry screaming about the lack of skills and workforce.

Silence on the land bubble.

Who will be listened to post-Brexit ? The workers kicked off site ? Or the employers screaming for cheap labour ? Can you already hear the speeches about how now we are mercifully free of the 'red tape' we need to 'get the economy going ?' Not to mention the lust for another bubble to crush our wages....

Everybody loves Christmas. Everybody can vote for that. But look at who we are voting for, boy do they love it and as far as they're concerned we're the turkeys.

Oh yes UKIP are and that`s my point

As for the part in bold that is utter tosh ,Browns bubble was the only time in my working life i could choose when and where i would work and the only time employers were bidding up my pay you could not be further from the truth, as for labour/skills shortages that's a myth at this point in time ,in the early 2000`s yes there was

You are right there's a lot of questions but no one has the answers as all those questions concerns what will happen in the future if we leave yet no one can say what will happen in the future if we stay but so many think they know exactly what will happen in the future if we leave ...strange that

Here's a far better assessment of the feeling amongst the working class than my ramblings..make what you will of it .

Sancho Panza, on 17 Jun 2016 - 5:16 PM, said:

Sancho Panza, on 17 Jun 2016 - 5:16 PM, said:

Apparently,Junker will be coming over to scare us into remaining next week if Osbourne's current project fear doesn't seem to be gaining traction.

They're really not getting what's happening.

This guy does

http://www.theguardi...t-eu-referendum

'For the last five days I have been driving around England and Wales, filming scores of people as they talk about which way they’ll vote in the European Union referendum.

From ardent leavers in Merthyr Tydfil and undecided people on the English-Welsh borders to university students in Manchester who were 95% for remain, my Guardian colleague John Domokos and I have sampled just about every shade of opinion, and soaked up an atmosphere of often passionate political engagement. If a common journalistic pose is to roll one’s eyes and pronounce oneself impossibly bored with the whole thing, that is not where most people are at all.

Hardly anybody talks about the official campaigns, and the most a mention of the respective figureheads of each camp tends to elicit is a dismissive tut – but just about everyone agrees that this is a fantastically important moment, and a litmus test of the national mood.

What must David Cameron make of it all? This story is unfolding, let’s not forget, because of his ludicrous belief that a referendum might somehow definitively address theEU-related divisions in his own party and the public at large – as if a month or so of political knockabout under Queensberry rules could sort everything out, and the country could then go back to normal.

Fat chance, obviously: he now finds his Eurosceptic foes emboldened by a sense that many Conservative voters are on their side, while politicians of all parties – and Labour people in particular – are gripped by something that has been simmering away for the best part of a decade. To quote the opinion pollsters Populus: “Both socioeconomic groups C2 and DE disproportionately back the UK leaving the EU.” To be a little more dramatic about it, now that Scotland has been through its political reformation, England and Wales are in the midst of a working-class revolt.

To be sure, there are many nuances and complications among leave voters. In the inner-city Birmingham neighbourhood of Handsworth, I met Sikh shopkeepers who claimed that the country is full, with just as much oomph as anyone white; in Leominster, Herefordshire, there are plenty of Tory voters gleefully defying Cameron’s instructions, and fixating on questions of sovereignty and democracy.

But make no mistake: in an almost comical reflection of the sacred lefty belief that any worthwhile political movement will necessarily be built around the workers, the foundation of the Brexit coalition is what used to be called the proletariat, large swaths of which are as united as in any lefty fantasy, even if some of their loudest complaints are triggering no end of anxiety among bien-pensant types, and causing Labour a great deal of apprehension.

In Stoke, Merthyr, Birmingham, Manchester and even rural Shropshire, the same lines recurred: so unchanging that they threatened to turn into cliches, but all the more powerful because of their ubiquity. “I’m scared about the future” … “No one listens to us” … “If you haven’t got money, no one cares.

And of course, none of it needs much translation. Instead of the comparative security and stability of the postwar settlement and the last act of Britain’s industrial age, what’s the best we can now offer for so many people in so many places? Six-week contracts at the local retail park, lives spent pinballing in and out of the benefits system, and retirements built on thin air?

It may have been easy to miss in the London-centred haze of the “knowledge economy” and the birth of the digital future, but this is where millions of lives have been heading since the early 1980s – and to read that some Labour MPs have come back from their constituencies, amazed by the views they encounter on the doorstep, is to be struck by a political failure that sits right at the heart of the story. How did they not know?

What has any of this got to do with the EU? Not much, but such is the nature of referendums: offer people a ballot paper, and they will focus whatever they feel strongly about on to it. There again, one obvious issue is directly linked to the EU, and so central to the political moment that it arises in countless conversations within seconds.

Yes, some people – from bigots in the stockbroker belt to raging gobshites in south Wales shopping precincts – are simply racist. But in a society and economy as precarious as ours, the arrival of large numbers of people prepared to do jobs with increasingly awful terms and conditions was always going to trigger loud resentment. For many places, the pace of change and the pressures on public services have arguably proved to be too much to cope with.

Before anyone with a more right-on view of all this explodes with ire, they might also consider the numbers. Between 1991 and 2003, on average about 60,000 migrants from the EU came to the UK each year. Between 2004 and 2012, that figure rose to 170,000. The 2011 census put the number of UK residents from Poland alone at 654,000.

To state the obvious, that’s a lot. If people had felt more connected to politics, public services had been quicker to adapt, and the Blair/Brown government had opted for transitional controls, perhaps such huge changes might not have triggered quite so much rage and worry.

But such thoughts are now for the birds: for millions of people, the word “immigration” is reducible to yet another seismic change no one thought to ask them about, or even explain.

What people seem to want is much the same as ever: security, stability, some sense of a viable future, and a reasonable degree of esteem. To be more specific, public housing is not a relic of the 20th century, but something that should surely sit at the core of our politics.

If the modern labour market amounts to a mess of uncertainty – something driven as much by technology as corporate greed – it is good to hear so much noise about the principle of a citizen’s income, but disheartening to hear it talked about as something that might only arrive in a few decades’ time, at best.

The most imaginative parts of the political left might have at least some of the answers – but there again, they still seem far too reluctant to confront more troubling matters. One is screamingly obvious: free movement may be an inevitable feature of a world shrinking at speed, but people have good reason to worry about it, and their anger and anxiety will not go away.

I have no idea what result will be announced next Friday. But at the centre of where we find ourselves there is an undeniable irony, which may yet turn cold and cruel. If the revolt succeeds and Brexit wins, the party in power is likely to take a political turn that will lead us even further away from what the moment demands, while Labour will likely tumble further into division and introspection.

On that score, a quotation flips into my mind so often these days that I ought to have it printed on a T-shirt, or possibly present it to a tattooist. Nearly a century ago, when the workers were increasingly restive, and his part of the planet was once again tipping towards chaos and disaster, that great European Antonio Gramsci wrote: “The crisis consists precisely in the fact that the old is dying and the new is yet to be born. And in the interregnum, a great variety of morbid symptoms appe

And confirmation from people on the ground from the Labour camp

Anecdote:

So I just got off the phone with my local MP. He's a decent man, though I didn't support him at the election.

However we are working together to bring home the OUT vote. he was telling me that the Labour MPs who are returning to their offices after canvassing on the doorstep in their constituencies, are ashen faced, and know they're going to lose. Apparently some of them have spent all day canvassing and not found a single INNER...

If we win this (and the MP thinks it's almost a definite) then it'll be thanks to the Labour heartlands!

Good to hear from inside the Portcullis House eh??

[Frugal Git]

Can someone explain the strange disconnect they have over agreeing with Farage but not liking the man? I don't understand this at all, never have done. I like the man as he's always said what others daren't and yet he's right every single time. I don't understand how you can call someone like that a "bellend" unless you disagree with him. Not trolling, just asking.

I disagree with him fundamentally on free movement.

I agree with him on the EU being a nefarious institution.

But either way I like him as a personality....he's entertaining. Not saying farage is in any way of a similar ilk, but I found Griffin hugely entertaining too with his whole 'almost completely non-violent Ku Klux Klan' and 'being able to trace his family back to the ice age' stuff. It was so ridiculous I couldn't help but like him as a pure wind up merchant.

Conversely I find numerous people on the 'lefty' side of things utterly odious despite the fact I agree with them (or rather their spiel) on general freedom of movement type issues. Generally because they aren't interesting people and their opinions aren't really their own....just a hotchpotch of whatever they think people want to heat.

And I find Tim Peake utterly horrid - a self promoting sham artist. Fits perfectly wit what the media want though.

Tl;Dr of course you can like someone who's a bellend and hate someone who's a fearsome intellect.

Edited June 18, 2016 by Frugal Git

[XswampyX]

Oh yes UKIP are and that`s my point

As for the part in bold that is utter tosh ,Browns bubble was the only time in my working life i could choose when and where i would work and the only time employers were bidding up my pay you could not be further from the truth, as for labour/skills shortages that's a myth at this point in time ,in the early 2000`s yes there was

You are right there's a lot of questions but no one has the answers as all those questions concerns what will happen in the future if we leave yet no one can say what will happen in the future if we stay but so many think they know exactly what will happen in the future if we leave ...strange that

Here's a far better assessment of the feeling amongst the working class than my ramblings..make what you will of it .

Sancho Panza, on 17 Jun 2016 - 5:16 PM, said:

Sancho Panza, on 17 Jun 2016 - 5:16 PM, said:

And confirmation from people on the ground from the Labour camp

Andrew Marr :- http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/andrew-marr-i-believe-the-brexit-chatter/

Andrew Marr: I believe the Brexit chatter

Nobody knows what’s going to happen in our referendum. But for the past three or four weeks I have felt things are going Brexit’s way. The polls, which I don’t believe, are only now catching up on Marr sampling. One of the very few advantages of having an — ahem! — distinctive televised face is that people come up and tell you, often out of the side of the mouth, what they think. Over the past few weeks I’ve been filming all over Britain. Everywhere I go, from cafés (‘hot water please’) to trains and airports, walking down the street or lazing on a Scottish island, I hear, ‘Psst, I’m for out.’ I’ve heard it from Scottish nationalists, red-hot socialists and Tories alike. It’s utterly unscientific, of course, but if I had trusted this kind of informal street chatter during the general election I’d have realised exactly what was going on. I didn’t. I listened to the polls and the commentators. The best bet for the Remain side is a dramatic last-minute moment of alarm. That might happen. But there’s precious little sign of it yet.

[999house]

Is it normal for a person accused of murder to be in court in 2 days after the crime? This fella is also appearing at the Old Bailey on Monday.

I know its a different country but how come Pistorious and OJ took so long to go to court?

[canbuywontbuy]

****** off back where you came from !!!

- actually, that's what the Home Office told me - a UK resident since the 70s, tax payer since 1988. I am leaving, and I hope I'm replaced by a Romanian layabout who doesn't speak a word of English, and takes home £thousands in benefits - I just see it as him doing his bit to chip away at the current system. No point in regulating it with my taxes.

[long time lurking]

There is a reason for that. A lot of the posters on this site have been discussing the issues and it's been shown than when people have information and the chance to weigh arguments and counter arguments in a considered fashion then they will tend to opt for out.

I for one am upset that the immigration issue has recently dominated events as much of that is down to specific UK rules that our rule makers themselves have chosen to ignore re the prop!e affected and now is biting them in the bum.

My reasons boil mainly down to 2 main issues...1. the lack of a functioning European 'demos'. It acts and behaves more like a dying Austro Hungarian Empire. The EU makes FIFA look open and honest.

Secondly, is the Euro. We will pay for its failings whether it blows up or if it carries on with none of the benefits. The Euro bloc will ensure this happens and will vote in favour of its interests as it makes the changes to become a proper functioning union.

If Remain were to propose joining the Euro would make more logic and contain a 'hopeful' view of a unified future, but that is not on offer. On that, I am desperately unhappy at the use of the Euro to bring certain countries undemocratically to heel and create deflationary depressions with little solidarity nor relief. An undemocratic bureaucracy using an independent Central Bank as its enforcer.

I have other reasons, but a lot are related to homegrown mistakes centring on vested interests. No one here is so naive that a vote for Brexit will magically cure our ills as it won't. What it does do is bring democracy closer to home and stop our representatives blaming the EU all the time. It also allows the Euro bloc a better chance of making the changes they need without an annoying UK thwarting progress at every turn.

Well that's the long and the short of it for me

Although immigration is a major concern for me as you say it`s a vested interest as it`s effecting my pay and employment the same as it`s doing for millions of others,to many people believe this to be a fantasy but it`s real Labour are going to learn some cold hard truths from this referendum regardless of the result

[ccc]

- actually, that's what the Home Office told me - a UK resident since the 70s, tax payer since 1988. I am leaving, and I hope I'm replaced by a Romanian layabout who doesn't speak a word of English, and takes home £thousands in benefits - I just see it as him doing his bit to chip away at the current system. No point in regulating it with my taxes.

I take back - don't go !!!

[GrizzlyDave]

Is it normal for a person accused of murder to be in court in 2 days after the crime? This fella is also appearing at the Old Bailey on Monday.

I know its a different country but how come Pistorious and OJ took so long to go to court?

Normal to go to quickly to magistrates court - who due to the nature of the crime who refer it upwards to a relevant higher court. The old Bailey is a crown court for big crime. He will go their and they will set a date for the court case, unless he pleads guilty, then a judge can fairly swiftly sentence him. I would imagine the full court case will be at least six months away. In order for the crown prosecution service to get their case together.

[long time lurking]

What's with the negative waves?

Kelly's Heroes

How do I insert the video clip instead of URL please?

[youtube ] [/youtube ] insert url between the two ,no spaces anywhere

URL ^^^^^^^^^

Use media instead of "youtube" if from another source media will also work with YT url`s

Edited June 18, 2016 by long time lurking

[long time lurking]

I take back - don't go !!!

He`s only going to Benidorm for a week with mam so she don`t vote remain

[long time lurking]

Or just knock the 's' off 'https'.

Really ..lesson learnt for today

[canbuywontbuy]

To embed youtube videos, simply paste the shortened URL "as is" e.g. https://youtu.be/ TJ6Mzvh3XCc (I put a space between "/" and "T" so you can see the naked URL). You can find the shortened URL via the "share" button on a youtube page.

In action:-