Fairyland Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Perpetual renters - most people under 35, according to recent press - how are they gonna pay market rent when they're in their 70s? More like under 45 Years. Work to death. Wonder if we are heading towards feudalism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sPinwheel Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) Perpetual renters - most people under 35, according to recent press - how are they gonna pay market rent when they're in their 70s?Why do you think they removed the automatic retirement age for UK companies. Work till you die. Edited February 18, 2016 by sPinwheel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePiltdownMan Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Perpetual renters - most people under 35, according to recent press - how are they gonna pay market rent when they're in their 70s? It will become more and more socialised and you will find pensioners living in HMOs/bedsits alongside asylum seekers and people living dysfunctional lifestyles. The WW2 generation who are rapidly dying out automatically got respect, but it doesn't apply to the older generations going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted February 18, 2016 Author Share Posted February 18, 2016 Yep but what you are forgetting is that if you had bought for £250k then you could now MEW and go on a really nice holiday! Im debt free with a fortune in the bank...I can go on a really really nice holiday for several months. I fail to see your point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wish I could afford one Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Two questions though: 1. Where to live after retirement and this is the one that scares/worries me most. 2. Rents can go up by any amount, at least in London/south east. A friend recently bough in the southeast paying same amount as rent per month. Will pay off her mortgage in 20 years. But the property does need work and has a bedroom less to be fair. Point is, renting in London/South east is very expensive as well. God knows when this non sense will end. IMHO, the only way out of this crisis is BTL should be banned, second homes should be taxed heavily. Say, 3 times normal council tax, 3 times normal utility bills. Why does it scare you? How about Malta, Cyprus, Spain... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canbuywontbuy Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Why does it scare you? How about Malta, Cyprus, Spain... Yeah, exactly. You have to be open to all kinds of plans in life. Even if a plan is out of your current comfort zone, it doesn't mean it's not going to work out for you. What real options do people have if they live in the UK? Rent forever or buy. Neither one, particularly, appeals to me (to quote a Morrissey lyric). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wish I could afford one Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Yeah, exactly. You have to be open to all kinds of plans in life. Even if a plan is out of your current comfort zone, it doesn't mean it's not going to work out for you. What real options do people have if they live in the UK? Rent forever or buy. Neither one, particularly, appeals to me (to quote a Morrissey lyric). The UK is less than 1% of the worlds population and less than 0.05% of the world's land mass. We are a speck. We really do need to think more creatively than a two up two down in the next village. The best thing I ever did was not lie to get a mortgage. It's made me think very differently and I like what I'm now thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARTINX9 Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Yeah, exactly. You have to be open to all kinds of plans in life. Even if a plan is out of your current comfort zone, it doesn't mean it's not going to work out for you. What real options do people have if they live in the UK? Rent forever or buy. Neither one, particularly, appeals to me (to quote a Morrissey lyric). Exactly. What sort of place is the UK going to be in 20 or 30 years. Maybe ten to 15 million more people and some Stretched public services NHS no longer sustainable No social care - if you have no relatives or money you will be left to rot Overcrowded - and much more housing of multiple occupation and multiple families living in one house Not enough jobs given likely automation And still the same horrible grim cold weather for 5 months a year Why not at last enjoy your last few years somewhere warmer with fewer people As I have British and automatic Irish citizenship Brexit has no fears for me on that point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The12YearWait Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Exactly. What sort of place is the UK going to be in 20 or 30 years. Maybe ten to 15 million more people and some Stretched public services NHS no longer sustainable No social care - if you have no relatives or money you will be left to rot Overcrowded - and much more housing of multiple occupation and multiple families living in one house Not enough jobs given likely automation And still the same horrible grim cold weather for 5 months a year Why not at last enjoy your last few years somewhere warmer with fewer people As I have British and automatic Irish citizIenship Brexit has no fears for me on that point! If they let another 10-15 million in the ponzi will still be going to look after the elderly of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renting til I die Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Im debt free with a fortune in the bank...I can go on a really really nice holiday for several months. I fail to see your point. Get that sarcasm detector working man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
council dweller Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Council dweller here.... I`m 56 now and if I live until I`m 96 my rent will cost me £200,000. Not bad? Of course I assume that my income (state pension) will roughly match my rent. At present half my rent is paid by the wife (so £100,000 for 40 years !) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Luckily reality doesn't matter prices only ever go up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckin2up2down Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 But can't rent keep going up with inflation? I wouldn't count on housing benefit still existing in your retirement or even the retirement age staying the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Maybe ten to 15 million more people and some Stretched public services NHS no longer sustainable No social care - if you have no relatives or money you will be left to rot Overcrowded - and much more housing of multiple occupation and multiple families living in one house Not enough jobs given likely automation And still the same horrible grim cold weather for 5 months a year You're really selling it to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeDavola Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 (edited) The UK is less than 1% of the worlds population and less than 0.05% of the world's land mass. We are a speck. We really do need to think more creatively than a two up two down in the next village. The best thing I ever did was not lie to get a mortgage. It's made me think very differently and I like what I'm now thinking. So then people need to come to is some sort of plan to squirrel away your wealth in such a way that you can then go and live a modest existence anywhere in the world if need be. So for the average person this would mean as wide a spread of equities as you can get with the lowest charge possible (somewhere like vanguard), and on top of that if you can start up and location independent businesses that pay you a little every month then all well and good. Then if 'the worst' happens, we'll be able to go and live in other parts of the world. Is this what we should all be doing (owning bits of lots of businesses, and trying to set up one or two of your own small businesses) instead of worrying about trying to spend half (or more) of our money for 25 years buying and maintaining an overpriced house in the cold, wet uk? Edited February 19, 2016 by JoeDavola Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Democorruptcy Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 So then people need to come to is some sort of plan to squirrel away your wealth in such a way that you can then go and live a modest existence anywhere in the world if need be. So for the average person this would mean as wide a spread of equities as you can get with the lowest charge possible (somewhere like vanguard), and on top of that if you can start up and location independent businesses that pay you a little every month then all well and good. Then if 'the worst' happens, we'll be able to go and live in other parts of the world. Is this what we should all be doing (owning bits of lots of businesses, and trying to set up one or two of your own small businesses) instead of worrying about trying to spend half (or more) of our money for 25 years buying and maintaining an overpriced house in the cold, wet uk? In case you didn't know, the person you just replied to, has this website! http://www.retirementinvestingtoday.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeDavola Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 (edited) In case you didn't know, the person you just replied to, has this website! http://www.retirementinvestingtoday.com/ I wasn't offering advice to the OP (hadn't even paid attention to who it was!), was just thinking out loud, as I'm slowly coming to this conclusion and was wondering if it's 'too simple' - currently reading 'Smarter Investing' by Tim Hale which as far as I can tell advises spreading your money into a mix of equities and bonds, with the equities being the lowest cost index fund you can find, i.e. fund managers over the long term don't really beat the market, so you just have to 'own the market' as cheaply as possible. I hadn't noticed that 'wish I could afford one' was the OP, but yes I'm aware of their story, and I admire them for what they've done! He is about 10 years ahead of me, is working hard, and has built up quite a stash Edited February 19, 2016 by JoeDavola Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canbuywontbuy Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 So then people need to come to is some sort of plan to squirrel away your wealth in such a way that you can then go and live a modest existence anywhere in the world if need be. So for the average person this would mean as wide a spread of equities as you can get with the lowest charge possible (somewhere like vanguard), and on top of that if you can start up and location independent businesses that pay you a little every month then all well and good. Then if 'the worst' happens, we'll be able to go and live in other parts of the world. Is this what we should all be doing (owning bits of lots of businesses, and trying to set up one or two of your own small businesses) instead of worrying about trying to spend half (or more) of our money for 25 years buying and maintaining an overpriced house in the cold, wet uk? YES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonSays Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Is this what we should all be doing (owning bits of lots of businesses, and trying to set up one or two of your own small businesses) instead of worrying about trying to spend half (or more) of our money for 25 years buying and maintaining an overpriced house in the cold, wet uk? Its what Im doing, and whats more I enjoy it. I work from home on my own business, set my own schedule, no commute, no audi driving halfwit on my back all day. Doing your own thing is quite tough, its not to be taken lightly. You need to want to do it, or you won't be able to. Im lucky that I enjoy it. Security of tenure is what you miss without buying and for me thats not so important. Im simply not going to endure the treadmill of job hating mortgage slavedom that so many have allowed their lives to become. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canbuywontbuy Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Exactly. What sort of place is the UK going to be in 20 or 30 years. Maybe ten to 15 million more people and some Stretched public services NHS no longer sustainable No social care - if you have no relatives or money you will be left to rot Overcrowded - and much more housing of multiple occupation and multiple families living in one house Not enough jobs given likely automation And still the same horrible grim cold weather for 5 months a year Why not at last enjoy your last few years somewhere warmer with fewer people As I have British and automatic Irish citizenship Brexit has no fears for me on that point! Yep - it's not just the cost of a property, but knowing how the country is going to the dogs in a big way. We have a potemkin economy propped up by doubling our national debt every 7 years or so, borrowing £10Bn a month to subsidise wages and pretend everything's OK. I don't really want to invest a 25 year mortgage into this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeDavola Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Its what Im doing, and whats more I enjoy it. I work from home on my own business, set my own schedule, no commute, no audi driving halfwit on my back all day. Doing your own thing is quite tough, its not to be taken lightly. You need to want to do it, or you won't be able to. Im lucky that I enjoy it. Security of tenure is what you miss without buying and for me thats not so important. Im simply not going to endure the treadmill of job hating mortgage slavedom that so many have allowed their lives to become. I agree that 'doing your own thing' can get you funny looks, if you're not buying into expensive houses/cars/weddings (that's the 3 big things I can think of that people blow all their money on apart from kids!). But if I could pick a plan and stick to it, it would mean I could stop worrying about house prices and I'd have more time to work on extra projects and more importantly enjoy life as well. So lets try and come up with our plan: - don't buy a house - don't rent a house any bigger than what you need at any given time - don't buy crap you don't need just to impress people (extravagant cars/houses) - put your savings into low cost equity trackers - try to work on other ways to make money that aren't location dependent - enjoy life! Behold, the HPC manifesto! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatnose Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 (edited) Just looking at house prices versus renting prices in my area confirms that I get a much better standard of living and bang for my buck if I rent. I have always rented properties off farmers in National Parks. I used to live in the Dales but now I live in the Lakes. I rent a 18th century three bedroom detached converted barn for £600/month. To buy it would cost at least £350-400 grand, The tenure is a long let, there is little crime, the schools are small, the landlord pays for the building insurance and maintenance. Quickly ramming the figures into an online mortgage calculator at 5% equates to a mortgage of at least £2456 over 25 years in order to buy the property I rent. The total cost of the loan being £736905.00. This does not include buildings insurance and maintenance. More number crunching indicates that this means I save a minimum of 2456-600=£1856 a month which equates to total savings of £556,000 over twenty-five years. Yes it would be nice to own it outright but dammit, I can think of better things to spend my money on and I have a lifestyle people dream of. I and my family live in a big massive garden called the Lake District. Renting is dead money...yeah right! Edited February 19, 2016 by flatnose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonSays Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 I think we're at the point now where the pain required to buy rather than rent simply isn't worth bearing for the difference that buying affords in comparison. My best guess is that most people under 40 have no intention of buying. That has an impact, an impact increasingly felt as time moves on and the priced out become an ever greater proportion of the population. Who do those holding properties think they're going to sell to for such silly amounts? It's only worth what someone will pay, and as the culture moves further and further away from buying that is getting less every day. "My Property Is My Pension!" is code for "A young'un will be along any minute and bail me out". They'll have a long wait. And time isn't on their side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wish I could afford one Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 I agree that 'doing your own thing' can get you funny looks, if you're not buying into expensive houses/cars/weddings (that's the 3 big things I can think of that people blow all their money on apart from kids!). But if I could pick a plan and stick to it, it would mean I could stop worrying about house prices and I'd have more time to work on extra projects and more importantly enjoy life as well. So lets try and come up with our plan: - don't buy a house - don't rent a house any bigger than what you need at any given time - don't buy crap you don't need just to impress people (extravagant cars/houses) - put your savings into low cost equity trackers - try to work on other ways to make money that aren't location dependent - enjoy life! Behold, the HPC manifesto! You're pretty close to my story: - Even with nearly £850k of wealth (good week in the markets for me) I'm still a dirty renter. I rent a small flat that is well insulated and while it will fall down in a few years (cheap new build) that's not my problem. - I work hard at increasing earnings. Since I started work I've increased earnings in real terms by a factor of 7. - I live well below my means and certainly don't buy crap. This is a crucial piece of the jigsaw as it helps you to save while also decreasing the amount of wealth you need to accrue to love well. - Those savings go into a portfolio of low cost, tax efficiently invested trackers consisting of Equities (UK, US, Europe, Japan, Aus, EM's), Bonds (Linkers and Corporate), Gold, Property (UK and European Commercial/Industrial) and Cash (for a home when I leave the UK and as a buffer for when I live off dividends). It's pretty close to this. - One area I've struggled is side hustles and have never really succeeded here despite trying a couple of ventures. I'm therefore not banking on this going forwards. - Enjoy life indeed! I'm 8.5 years into my journey and am aged 43. With a fair wind I'll be fishing in the Mediterranean in a bit over a year. Hope that helps a little? Of course DYOR, this is worth what you paid for it etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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