London Exodus

[interestrateripoff]

Well, people can now sell up in London and buy a very nice home in the regions. So that is one reason.

Secondly, the country will simply import more immigrants and, without most people realising, the key jobs in London will increasingly be filled by immigrants and those people will have increasing influence over the rest of us.

Not just sell up and buy something nice, I bet most will have a nice bank balance afterwards as well.

If I was in the same situation and could move jobs from London up North I'd do it.

[renting til I die]

....do you rent a place solo or a place where you would/could bring a family up in?.......London has priced out families.....student style accommodation is still doable at a push.

I rent a flat (zone 3 btw, so not in the middle of London by any means) with my wife, no kids. Could we have kids here? Yes, it is a 3 bed flat (one room is a box room). Is it a ideal family home? Maybe not but it would be liveable for a small family (has a private garden). Wife works in a local shop but I have a company van so could easily move out of London. However, when I consider that most of my work is quite local to me (often within a 15 mins drive) and if I moved out I would have to spend time travelling back in, I'm suddenly not so keen on a move! I go (1 day a week) to the University in Chelmsford and when travelling there, I see the amount of traffic trying to get into London on the M11. I check rents in several areas outside of London and anything within commuting distance isn't that much cheaper, once you start factoring the time and travel costs some seem very poor value indeed. Rents throughout the SE are very high, I would have to move out at least a 90min drive from my current location to see a significant drop in rental costs.

Of course if I had less free time due to commuting then maybe I wouldn't waste so much time reading everyone's posts on here!

[Fancypants]

We're buying in zone 4, after years of resisting. But having just produced our third child, the lure of the extra bedroom and a garden got too much.

I'm not desperate to leave London, but I'd do it tomorrow if a good job opportunity came up. The main thing that's stopping me is my wife, who is London born and bred, hence simply cannot contemplate leaving. So I have to play the long game there...

[winkie]

I rent a flat (zone 3 btw, so not in the middle of London by any means) with my wife, no kids. Could we have kids here? Yes, it is a 3 bed flat (one room is a box room). Is it a ideal family home? Maybe not but it would be liveable for a small family (has a private garden). Wife works in a local shop but I have a company van so could easily move out of London. However, when I consider that most of my work is quite local to me (often within a 15 mins drive) and if I moved out I would have to spend time travelling back in, I'm suddenly not so keen on a move! I go (1 day a week) to the University in Chelmsford and when travelling there, I see the amount of traffic trying to get into London on the M11. I check rents in several areas outside of London and anything within commuting distance isn't that much cheaper, once you start factoring the time and travel costs some seem very poor value indeed. Rents throughout the SE are very high, I would have to move out at least a 90min drive from my current location to see a significant drop in rental costs.

Of course if I had less free time due to commuting then maybe I wouldn't waste so much time reading everyone's posts on here!

Sounds ideal....being self employed it makes sense to stay living near to where your customers are.....there are places within the M25 where rents for family homes are still just about affordable, affordable meaning min of two wages required to pay for them.....but that stock over recent years has dwindled rapidly.....out of interest are there similar properties to your own, in your area with a rent similar to the rent you are paying?

I agree long commutes are bad for productivity, stressful, expensive and very uncomfortable at best.....once getting into London still have the tube to contend with......driving well I am sure many do it on auto pilot, having the right sounds can make it more bearable, but still a huge waste of time and money.

[disenfranchised]

I live in Northampton but I'm renting a room in SE10 for weekdays at present, working in Canary Wharf.

Monday-Friday room rent works out about 50-100 a month more than season ticket cost wise with everything taken into account, but gives me the flexibility to work late when I need to and keep my weekends free. I roll out of bed at 4.45am on Monday and I'm in the car at 5am to beat the traffic - get to SE10 by 7am on a good day, shower, breakfast and in work by 8.30am. Other days its about 30 mins to/from work or maybe an hour if I have meetings in Central London. Public transport in London is very slow. On the whole it is a lot better than commuting, but living in 2 places gets very draining after a while though. You'd need a very strong partnership both sides to do it if you were leaving a young family behind for four nights a week.

Edited March 13, 2015 by disenfranchised

[longtomsilver]

I don't pay much more than that to rent a place in London! I have no travel costs and save lots of time not travelling great distances! Of course renting is dead money.... travel costs are ....errrrr.....

Fair enough! I've been out of London fifteen years, so I am completely detached from the bubble and cost of renting a place there. You make it sound not so bad, I was under the impression it cost a lot more

[Guest_growlers_*]

I'm convinced there is more slack and room for negotiation in the London rental market than currently realised. Rental reductions seem fairly common suggesting voids. New build supply dripping in, loads btl conversions and many more people rent a room out nowadays. Time will tell but I'm confident I could reject any rent increase at the moment. If rents started falling, life in London would be much more bearable.

[Marshmellow]

The prices will keep going up

There aren't any jobs anywhere else

Its one of the prophecies of globalisation and 'free trade': Everyone leaves the countryside and towns and moves to big cities when the jobs have been outsourced abroad

Edited March 13, 2015 by Marshmellow

[scepticus]

Keep moving out as you age. And then back in again when you can't drive any more.

This ^^

[Greg Bowman]

...with free gifted unearned untaxed income, pricing out locals.

London buyers not welcome. they can stay and rot in the squalid city they have created for all I care

I think you are confusing Londoners with people who giving a flying f*** what you think or don't think. Quite ironic in that I have just had two days up in Edinburgh and my friend said the referendum polarised views and he has gone out of his way to be pro UK and together

Yet your views are typical of a middle band of people outside London.

But I guess he is a successful person living in a lovely city.

And anyway you won't have a choice so perhaps better spitting your divisive nonsense on another subject or join UKIP

[Si1]

The prices will keep going up

There aren't any jobs anywhere else

Its one of the prophecies of globalisation and 'free trade': Everyone leaves the countryside and towns and moves to big cities when the jobs have been outsourced abroad

?

[spyguy]

?

Yep - ??

London is propped by tax payers at the bottom - tax credits + housing benefits for the likes of Mr + Mrs Jihadi John, at the top - governmentment bailing out the banks, and the middle - civil service, NHS and the like.

[winkie]

This ^^

More so in the past perhaps, not so much now....everything can now be delivered, why would it be necessary to travel? To be close to a hospital?....many small towns and villages have everything required on tap, post office, shop, pub, plenty of things organised to do, mobile library, film clubs,music and theatre, clubs of all kinds.....why soon there will be the driverless car.

[Si1]

Yep - ??

London is propped by tax payers at the bottom - tax credits + housing benefits for the likes of Mr + Mrs Jihadi John, at the top - governmentment bailing out the banks, and the middle - civil service, NHS and the like.

Indeed

But not as a consequence of free trade and globalisation

And besides, there are increasing numbers of white collar jobs elsewhere in the other big well developed cities

[LVM]

I don't know why there's so much anti-London feeling on here, there are plenty of HPCers living here. Yes, you have to earn well over £50k a year to have any semblance of a life, well over £100k to even think about owning a house, but those numbers aren't difficult to achieve. I realise this angers many and I'm as mad as anyone about misappropriation of taxpayers' money to prop up the banks, but I like earning a lot for doing a little. I fully admit to being a hypocrite on this, but I see at as being the fastest way to build up enough capital to break out of the very system that currently pays my wages.

I have absolutely no idea why anyone would want to get the seven-figure mortgage required to own a house here. Even if you wanted to own property, you'd be better off buying something in another major city, renting it out and then using that income to fund rent on a place in London - you'd be living in a far nicer house and you'd split your risk of bad tenants, voids etc over a few different BTLs. Not that I think residential property is a great bet at the moment.

Most top earners in London are obviously in financial services and therefore a move out of London means a move to another country. The irony is that pretty much everyone in the City sits in front of a computer screen and could do this just as easily at home. I can do my job from home quite happily for one day a week, so why my current employer (well, customer, as I'm a contractor like everyone else these days) insists on paying out for an expensive seat at a desk for me in the City is baffling.

The London Exodus might well be a very real thing but there's a queue of people waiting to take their places, whether they've come from other parts of the UK, from Europe or indeed from further afield. I just don't see demand to live in London dropping off, however as we all know on here, that doesn't mean that house prices can't drop. Personally, I don't care what they do anymore, but a big crash would be an interesting show.

[spyguy]

I don't know why there's so much anti-London feeling on here, there are plenty of HPCers living here. Yes, you have to earn well over £50k a year to have any semblance of a life, well over £100k to even think about owning a house, but those numbers aren't difficult to achieve. I realise this angers many and I'm as mad as anyone about misappropriation of taxpayers' money to prop up the banks, but I like earning a lot for doing a little. I fully admit to being a hypocrite on this, but I see at as being the fastest way to build up enough capital to break out of the very system that currently pays my wages.

I have absolutely no idea why anyone would want to get the seven-figure mortgage required to own a house here. Even if you wanted to own property, you'd be better off buying something in another major city, renting it out and then using that income to fund rent on a place in London - you'd be living in a far nicer house and you'd split your risk of bad tenants, voids etc over a few different BTLs. Not that I think residential property is a great bet at the moment.

Most top earners in London are obviously in financial services and therefore a move out of London means a move to another country. The irony is that pretty much everyone in the City sits in front of a computer screen and could do this just as easily at home. I can do my job from home quite happily for one day a week, so why my current employer (well, customer, as I'm a contractor like everyone else these days) insists on paying out for an expensive seat at a desk for me in the City is baffling.

The London Exodus might well be a very real thing but there's a queue of people waiting to take their places, whether they've come from other parts of the UK, from Europe or indeed from further afield. I just don't see demand to live in London dropping off, however as we all know on here, that doesn't mean that house prices can't drop. Personally, I don't care what they do anymore, but a big crash would be an interesting show.

Yes they are.

Although London pay is slightly higher than the UK average, its just not that higher.

The number of people earning 100K+ in the UK is not that high.

[Bora Horza]

Seeing a lot of this with the 50/60 age group over the last 5 years or so.

Sell the London house for £500k, buy something bigger/nicer outside London for £350k and use the £150k as an early retirement fund.

In my area only two groups seem to be able to afford the current prices:

1. BTL

2. Extended families of non-British origin. (multiple incomes that enable the mortgage to be paid).

Which has caused a number of problems, particular the BTL group. Poorly maintained housing, tenants who don't care about the local community because their connection is likely to be short-term etc.

There have been a number of reports recently that London's population will reach 10million by 2030. I'm very sceptical about this, partly because the infrastructure hasn't kept up with the population growth but also because I suspect the high cost of living in London must be reaching a point where it's discouraging business formation?

In the Mid-1990's when London was much cheaper, it was possible to establish a business and live on a modest income until the business grew in size. This must surely be much more difficult to do now that housing costs are so much higher.

Instead of setting up an internet business (for example) in London choose Manchester/Berlin where cost of living is much lower?

Edited March 14, 2015 by Bora Horza

[richc]

I don't know why there's so much anti-London feeling on here, there are plenty of HPCers living here. Yes, you have to earn well over £50k a year to have any semblance of a life, well over £100k to even think about owning a house, but those numbers aren't difficult to achieve. I realise this angers many and I'm as mad as anyone about misappropriation of taxpayers' money to prop up the banks, but I like earning a lot for doing a little. I fully admit to being a hypocrite on this, but I see at as being the fastest way to build up enough capital to break out of the very system that currently pays my wages.

I think some of the anger stems from the fact that the housing market in London is so completely artificial. London has some very wealthy people, but it also has the highest level of poverty in the country, and all of those poor people (most of whom aren't even British) live there thanks to the tax payers largesse. People making £100k a year are not the ones buying ridiculously overpriced terraced houses in Zone 5 -- it's BTLers who are going to fill the house up with immigrants on housing benefit in order to pocket the taxpayer's cash. Your point that it makes no sense to buy in London because you can rent far more cheaply is spot on. HPCers making 50k to 150k+ in London are going to rent in zone 2/3 before buying a house outside of London. The housing market in London is almost irrelevant now for most young professionals working in London because you're not going to buy in Zone 1 along with the money-laundering gangsters of this planet, and you're not going to live in Zone 4-6 with the benefit lifers and the gangster's domestic help.

Edited March 14, 2015 by richc

[Peter Hun]

I don't know why there's so much anti-London feeling on here, there are plenty of HPCers living here. Yes, you have to earn well over £50k a year to have any semblance of a life, well over £100k to even think about owning a house, but those numbers aren't difficult to achieve. I realise this angers many and I'm as mad as anyone about misappropriation of taxpayers' money to prop up the banks, but I like earning a lot for doing a little. I fully admit to being a hypocrite on this, but I see at as being the fastest way to build up enough capital to break out of the very system that currently pays my wages.

I have absolutely no idea why anyone would want to get the seven-figure mortgage required to own a house here. Even if you wanted to own property, you'd be better off buying something in another major city, renting it out and then using that income to fund rent on a place in London - you'd be living in a far nicer house and you'd split your risk of bad tenants, voids etc over a few different BTLs. Not that I think residential property is a great bet at the moment.

Most top earners in London are obviously in financial services and therefore a move out of London means a move to another country. The irony is that pretty much everyone in the City sits in front of a computer screen and could do this just as easily at home. I can do my job from home quite happily for one day a week, so why my current employer (well, customer, as I'm a contractor like everyone else these days) insists on paying out for an expensive seat at a desk for me in the City is baffling.

The London Exodus might well be a very real thing but there's a queue of people waiting to take their places, whether they've come from other parts of the UK, from Europe or indeed from further afield. I just don't see demand to live in London dropping off, however as we all know on here, that doesn't mean that house prices can't drop. Personally, I don't care what they do anymore, but a big crash would be an interesting show.

Large amount of jealousy of Londoners, basically. Can't blame them, get paid over £100k to sit in front of a computers all day. You can buy a house for 330k if you wanted, my collegue has and he's earning 140k in a hedge fund. Terrible life, it really is, for a 32 year old.

As for the London Exodus, the population of London is now at it highest ever, passing the figure for 1939. All the predictions are for much more growth in jobs, population. I deccided I can't beat them so I'm joining them - Job in finance and a mortage.

Some of you guys can keep dreaming that the world will change, but it isn't happening.

Your point that it makes no sense to buy in London because you can rent far more cheaply is spot on.

Not true. Even at a 5 year fix, the interest payments are less than rent. True, you have to pay the capital back over 20-25 years,

Edited March 14, 2015 by Peter Hun

[Bora Horza]

I've lived in London most of my life (Apart from a couple of years in Yorkshire and Surrey due to work).

Most people in London earn far below £100k. The average Londoner has seen their quality of life decline over the last 20 years.

[richc]

Large amount of jealousy of Londoners, basically. Can't blame them, get paid over £100k to sit in front of a computers all day. You can buy a house for 330k if you wanted, my collegue has and he's earning 140k in a hedge fund. Terrible life, it really is, for a 32 year old.

As for the London Exodus, the population of London is now at it highest ever, passing the figure for 1939. All the predictions are for much more growth in jobs, population. I deccided I can't beat them so I'm joining them - Job in finance and a mortage.

Some of you guys can keep dreaming that the world will change, but it isn't happeneing.

32 year old at a hedge fund and he only makes 140k? Is he the tea lady?

Of the huge increase in London population, only a minute fraction are bankers. The vast majority of newcomers are low-paid migrants from eastern europe/africa/indian subcontinent who are only here due to the market distortions of the UK benefit system.

[richc]

Not true. Even at a 5 year fix, the interest payments are less than rent. True, you have to pay the capital back over 20-25 years,

I was renting in Battersea last year. The gross yield on the house was 1.5%, and the owners had to replace the roof when we moved out. It is not cheaper to own.

[Bora Horza]

I've a friend who's just been promoted - earns £70k. Constantly complaining he can't afford to buy in London, and is talking of moving aboard.

When someone earning more than twice the national average salary can't afford to buy somewhere (that they consider decent admittedly) there is a problem.

[wish I could afford one]

It always made me sick that people who bought a flat in London could sell up and move to places like Devon and Cornwall buying up the desirable houses, whilst the locals have to live in cramped shitty accommodation.

A nice 50% collapse in London prices would rectify this situation and restore some justice.

I think I might be making you sick. I'm not quite what you describe though.

I haven't bought in London but I am a dirty London renter living in a small 1 bed flat in an 'up and coming area'. I'm here for the money. I can make a lot of money in a short space of time and am prepared to sacrifice a few other niceties to make it happen.

18 months or so from today I'll have the option to move somewhere else in the UK thereby forcing the locals out as you describe. I probably though won't as houses are over priced there also. Instead I'll likely be in Europe where I'll probably be forcing a local out of a home there also. Within Europe we of course live in a 'free market' so those locals do of course have the option to come and take my London flat and job from me thereby forcing me out.

[Peter Hun]

I was renting in Battersea last year. The gross yield on the house was 1.5%, and the owners had to replace the roof when we moved out. It is not cheaper to own.

As I live in Battersea I know how much rent and prices are, care to put figures to number? 3.1 to 3.6 percent is what I see

(I'm talking about a one bed/two bed flat. Rent and selling prices on houses are another thing).

Edited March 14, 2015 by Peter Hun