ken_ichikawa Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 The most interesting point I see in this survey is this: More than 50% anticipate buying a house before age 25 (The vast majority with a mortgage of course) and yet only 24% anticipate getting into debt in the future. At a rough - back of a fag packet calculation - we can deduce half of youngsters today - do not see getting a mortgage as having debt. No great surprise. Half the parents probably drilled that into them from a young age - with the help of some choice TV shows of course. A mortgage is real debt is it... Its madness tbh, one of my biker acquaintances was unemployed from 16 to 18. He is a trainee for a company which is paying for him to go to university. He's been there 7 months and he is already looking to buy a house. He's in for a real shock though as his career path is for a housing company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Where's the problem with those figures? Twenty years ago, incomes were around half their present levels. £60k twenty years hence is just approximately projecting a trend. On leaving education ... well, what are graduate salaries today? A teenager may be legitimately projecting a few years to his/her own graduation. Interesting that the average 18-21-year-old should be earning so much, given how many of them are in full-time education and thus presumably earning only part-time if at all. It suggests that those who are in full-time work are doing surprisingly nicely to pull that average up! Graduate salaries from my poking around are £11-£14K unless you get on a highly valued and extremely rare graduate scheme. More annoyingly at some interviews I've been to employers have asked if I will work for free for a 3 month trial period. Which I suspect aftter 3 months another person will be trialed. There are also an awful lot of fake apprenticeship positions floating around. Apprenticeship office cleaner Apprenticeship customer services office (telesales) Apprenticeship cleaner Apprenticeship barber Etc..... more worrying it a company I worked at 6 years ago removed all their trainee positions which paid £11K + a pay increase every 6 months if you passed exams. The pay increases were modest only 750 a time (so qualified folk were on £15K). I clicked on an advert with a familiar name with it. They've changed all the trainee positions to apprentice positions £2.50 an hour jobs. Yeesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jie Bie Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 No great surprise. Half the parents probably drilled that into them from a young age - with the help of some choice TV shows of course. A mortgage is real debt is it... The thing about mortgage debt is that usually you can repay it by selling the item you bought with the loan. In the vast majority of other debt-backed purchases made by the general public that isn't true. I think that's why it's seen as "different". Of course you then need somewhere else to live, but most people probably have the idea that if times are desperate then the state will house them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrMartinSanchez Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Inflation at 14% (which is what it looks like from where I'm sitting) for 10 years ought to do the trick. Hell why not go the whole hog and do 140% for a year or two? News article about Zimbabwe, from 2008: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/zimbabwe/2585926/Zimbabwe-inflation-rockets-to-11.2-million-per-cent.html Are we heading this way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 News article about Zimbabwe, from 2008: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/zimbabwe/2585926/Zimbabwe-inflation-rockets-to-11.2-million-per-cent.html Are we heading this way? I met a bloke from Zimbabwe a few weeks ago, he said the UK felt errily like just before the hyperinflation phase in Zimbabwe. Even odder he mentioned Zimbabwe inflation was lower than in the UK now (its 2.1% UK is 14%) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rw42 Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 (edited) Those figures sound eerily similar to what i decided what i wanted/needed to earn to make going to university worthwhile. I'd like to think it wasn't based on any sense of entitlement about what i was worth, but i just looked at how much a 1/2 bed flat would cost close to london where i work and where most jobs in my industry go. At 29 i'm not far off my targets, and while i could afford to get something now, i'm still waiting for something i feel is worth taking a chance on. Obviously, if i could find work in a cheaper part of the country than london, then i'd be willing to accept a lower wage in return for reduced living costs.. Edit - barely broke even while at uni working weekends/evenings for living costs. £14k in debt from student loans after uni, now finally paid off this year after 7 years odd of working. At graduation earned 18k, up to 21k after a 6 month probation period. Up to around 30k (i think) when i was around 24, and 42k when i started this job 3 years odd ago. Hasn't moved much since. The question to me is how quickly should you be able to buy a house after you start full time employment. If i waited till i was 40, then bought, then i could earn less each year as long as i am still saving. I'd like to be 'on the ladder (spit)' a little bit before then though.. Edited May 9, 2011 by rw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pezo Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Absolutely. Most schools still seem to drum into kids that going to university is the answer to everything, and by getting a good degree they will automatically climb the career ladder. The reality is rather different, but if these kids believe what they are told, then they expect to be earning a good wage by the time they are 35. Across the whole country, £60k is probably a reasonable figure for someone who has done quite well by that age (more in the SE, less in the rest of the country and excluding bankers and professional footabllers!) I have a friend that came out of Uni 5 years ago (aged 25) got a job on a graduate program doing sales for a large IT training provider on 21k a year, 2 years later (so 27) was earning 70k a year. It does happen and uni can give you a foot up, just very rare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffneck Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 (edited) I met a bloke from Zimbabwe a few weeks ago, he said the UK felt errily like just before the hyperinflation phase in Zimbabwe. Even odder he mentioned Zimbabwe inflation was lower than in the UK now (its 2.1% UK is 14%) ZIM inflation rate 2.1 when they are pegged to the RAND? I thought SA economy was fooooked = they must be doing something right. Edited May 9, 2011 by Ruffneck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warwick-Watcher Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Is that London/SE wages? A friend of mine in her thirties (with degree) is only earning at about the £18,705 level. Oh the sense of entitlement How about - what she does is socially useless, so society chooses not to overpay for the "service" she provides? Or she may just be an unfortunate employee in the private sector - suggest she gets a government job; that should raise her income by about 40% apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warwick-Watcher Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Absolutely. Most schools still seem to drum into kids that going to university is the answer to everything, and by getting a good degree they will automatically climb the career ladder. The reality is rather different, but if these kids believe what they are told, then they expect to be earning a good wage by the time they are 35. Across the whole country, £60k is probably a reasonable figure for someone who has done quite well by that age (more in the SE, less in the rest of the country and excluding bankers and professional footabllers!) Even teachers don't increase their salaries at the rate these teens think apply to all workers. Watching that Robson Green show about art and miners last night showed how hard people used to work for shyte wages. That's the trouble these days - no-one wants to graft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffneck Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Even teachers don't increase their salaries at the rate these teens think apply to all workers. Watching that Robson Green show about art and miners last night showed how hard people used to work for shyte wages. That's the trouble these days - no-one wants to graft. Who needs mines when you can shuffle paper around in a London office instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Teenagers can obviously see through Mervyn's pretence at vigilance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 For the average teenager 60K (at today's rates) is high, you are not going to earn that flipping burgers or working the tills in B&Q but for professionals and some self-employed skills it doesn't sound too ridiculous assuming the UK economy doesn't completely collapse. I was earning that sort of money in 1993 when I was 29 in an engineering discipline but you don't get that sitting on your a*se. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 The thing about mortgage debt is that usually you can repay it by selling the item you bought with the loan. In the vast majority of other debt-backed purchases made by the general public that isn't true. I think that's why it's seen as "different". Of course you then need somewhere else to live, but most people probably have the idea that if times are desperate then the state will house them. Indeed it is different. But is is still debt. And as long as people don't even consider it as debt - we will have problems in this country as a result. How many times have you been talking to someone about finances/debt etc.. and when totting up their numbers they peddle something like 'Oh but I dont count my mortgage - thats not real debt". It is ******ing insane. IMO anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juvenal Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 How many TV shows depict someone with a clear source of realistic income in relation to the work they are shown to do, who also live a lifestyle commiserate with that? Only Steptoe and Son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennon Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Indeed it is different. But is is still debt. And as long as people don't even consider it as debt - we will have problems in this country as a result. How many times have you been talking to someone about finances/debt etc.. and when totting up their numbers they peddle something like 'Oh but I dont count my mortgage - thats not real debt". It is ******ing insane. IMO anyway. Not counting the mortgage as debt is daft, but understandable... what's insane in my view - and almost as common - is not counting the mortgage as debt, but still counting the house as an asset! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffneck Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Only Steptoe and Son. only fools and horses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Not counting the mortgage as debt is daft, but understandable... what's insane in my view - and almost as common - is not counting the mortgage as debt, but still counting the house as an asset! It is just delusion really. Same as the 100% mortgage holder classing themself as a 'homeowner'. If it makes them feel better than I suppose it is up to them. I find it very wierd though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I want a house! Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Its madness tbh, one of my biker acquaintances was unemployed from 16 to 18. He is a trainee for a company which is paying for him to go to university. He's been there 7 months and he is already looking to buy a house. He's in for a real shock though as his career path is for a housing company. Don't you need A level's to go to University? If he was unemployed from 16, I assume that is O levels unless the dude is a genius? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brave New World Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Another consequence of Labour's Aspiration Delusion breed in to its populous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lepista Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 only fools and horses oddly, both are comedies. Coincidence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopGun Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Oh the sense of entitlement How about - what she does is socially useless, so society chooses not to overpay for the "service" she provides? Or she may just be an unfortunate employee in the private sector - suggest she gets a government job; that should raise her income by about 40% apparently. or work as a capitalist at a socialised bank! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azbola Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Strangely, those figures are almost exactly what I was earning at those ages. I am currently 36. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self Employed Youth Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 My grandparents bought a house for £1000 at the age of 23, they are now in their 80s, and its supposed to be worth a quarter of a million £. I'm 23 and now earn £1000 a month. Suppose I bought that house at a qaurter of a million and had a grandchild, with the same age difference between us, as me and my grandparents. When he is 23, what with the inflation you'd expect him to be earning £3 million per year. (On minimum wage in the 2070s) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 My grandparents bought a house for £1000 at the age of 23, they are now in their 80s, and its supposed to be worth a quarter of a million £. I'm 23 and now earn £1000 a month. Suppose I bought that house at a qaurter of a million and had a grandchild, with the same age difference between us, as me and my grandparents. When he is 23, what with the inflation you'd expect him to be earning £3 million per year. (On minimum wage in the 2070s) nice to see the BoE is ever watchful on its duty to keep money stable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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