Mortgage Approvals Up Again

[Prof]

Indeed, the place is full of them. Delusional people with messiah complexes, running around posting on websites everywhere, proclaiming the evils of global finance and the tyranny of "debt slavery". In other words, slackers that can't make a proper living and cant afford a house. Very sad indeed.

Mmmmm, would you say that your postman is a "slacker" ?

What about the waiter at your local restaurant ?

The person that works on the checkout at your local supermaket.

I doubt that the person that sweeps up the streets in you local area would be able to afford a house.

These "slackers" all work pretty hard. OK, there are some occupations that will never really pay enough for someone to buy a home, but surely any decent person would wish as many working people to afford a roof over their heads as possible. I don`t think I`m wrong when I say that many of the bulls, including yourself, are simply promoting wider exclusion from the property market. Housing is a basic need, like food and warmth. I wonder if the food industry was like the property industry - would you rejoice in the starvation of the poor ?

Edited June 2, 2009 by Prof

[andykn]

Mmmmm, would you say that your postman is a "slacker" ?

What about the waiter at your local restaurant ?

The person that works on the checkout at your local supermaket.

I doubt that the person that sweeps up the streets in you local area would be able to afford a house.

These "slackers" all work pretty hard. OK, there are some occupations that will never really pay enough for someone to buy a home, but surely any decent person would wish as many working people to afford a roof over their heads as possible. I don`t think I`m wrong when I say that many of the bulls, including yourself, are simply promoting wider exclusion from the property market. Housing is a basic need, like food and warmth. I wonder if the food industry was like the property industry - would you rejoice in the starvation of the poor ?

Isn't that the sort of attitude that got us into this mess in the first place? The "get as many people as possible" to buy a house?

Given that we probably aren't going to increase the supply of housing significantly any time soon, the only way to get houses to drop in price is to reduce demand. Thia has been done recently by removong availability to finance for many people. So those who could have bought a house now can't. Possibly for their own good, preventing them from taking on unsustainable debts/payments.

It still means that the are fewer "working people" buying a roof over their heads at the moment.

[Sybil13]

Mmmmm, would you say that your postman is a "slacker" ?

What about the waiter at your local restaurant ?

The person that works on the checkout at your local supermaket.

I doubt that the person that sweeps up the streets in you local area would be able to afford a house.

These "slackers" all work pretty hard. OK, there are some occupations that will never really pay enough for someone to buy a home, but surely any decent person would wish as many working people to afford a roof over their heads as possible. I don`t think I`m wrong when I say that many of the bulls, including yourself, are simply promoting wider exclusion from the property market. Housing is a basic need, like food and warmth. I wonder if the food industry was like the property industry - would you rejoice in the starvation of the poor ?

"would you rejoice in the starvation of the poor " the answer is , yes, probably he would.

You forget that the people you have listed are just "average" people, Hamish doesn't do "average" people, although quite what McTavish's world looks like I can't imagine if he compares people to himself its hard to see on what basis he awards kudos. Its funny though isn't it, because this is not about "hard working people" but about people making massive salaries for doing very little . Yet in Hamish's world "hard working people" below a certain income bracket are lumped in with "slackers" or so low on his scale they don't even figure.

Its sad really, but we must be grateful to him and he to us and we all seek to understand each other better, it can only make for a better world.

[Dave Spart]

So too are gilt yields.

[pete.hpc]

I think it's important at this point to show how the BBC covered the news when approvals were 22,000 higher than today

The recovery is here everyone !

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7372847.stm

Mortgage approvals hit record low

The slowdown in the UK mortgage market continued in March, according to figures from the Bank of England.

It said the number of new mortgages approved for house purchases in March fell to a low of 64,000, down from 72,000 the previous month.

This was the lowest level since current records began in April 1993, and was down 44% on the figure for the same month in 2007.

[Bruce Banner]

Mmmmm, would you say that your postman is a "slacker" ?

What about the waiter at your local restaurant ?

The person that works on the checkout at your local supermaket.

I doubt that the person that sweeps up the streets in you local area would be able to afford a house.

These "slackers" all work pretty hard. OK, there are some occupations that will never really pay enough for someone to buy a home, but surely any decent person would wish as many working people to afford a roof over their heads as possible. I don`t think I`m wrong when I say that many of the bulls, including yourself, are simply promoting wider exclusion from the property market. Housing is a basic need, like food and warmth. I wonder if the food industry was like the property industry - would you rejoice in the starvation of the poor ?

Very true, but I suspect that MCTAVISH's outburst at slackers who can't afford a house was aimed at me .

In answer to troll MCTAVISH. Yes, I am a slacker, having retired last year in my mid 50s. I could afford a house or two though and may even buy one in a few years time .

[MississippiJohnHurt]

Do you know what I love about this perspective is that bankers , politicians etc got off their arses and DID SOMETHING but what they did, has that been more useful than just "being a slacker that can't make a property living and can't afford a house"? What is the difference between a "slacker" and someone who flips property and makes millions courtesy of the tax payer?

"Delusional people with messiah complexes" are they not the people that ran the banks and government gambling the future of our country for short term profit?

Touche!

PS: Hamish, you know we're not all that bad, some of us just like a debate and happen to have different views to you (in fact, you and I established the other day that we're not really far apart on our views of this particular crash, although we do differ significantly on what will happen in the long term. I bet you'll find the same with a lot of posters. You're a bear in disguise, really ;]

[Prof]

"would you rejoice in the starvation of the poor " the answer is , yes, probably he would.

You forget that the people you have listed are just "average" people, Hamish doesn't do "average" people, although quite what McTavish's world looks like I can't imagine if he compares people to himself its hard to see on what basis he awards kudos. Its funny though isn't it, because this is not about "hard working people" but about people making massive salaries for doing very little . Yet in Hamish's world "hard working people" below a certain income bracket are lumped in with "slackers" or so low on his scale they don't even figure.

Its sad really, but we must be grateful to him and he to us and we all seek to understand each other better, it can only make for a better world.

And let`s not forget, unless you have > £100k of equity by 36, you are "pathetic" - H. McTavish.

Oh, it`s also not good enough to have £400k of equity by 38, you have to tell people about it !

We should all look up to Hamish - he`s the man !

[Brave New World]

Indeed, the place is full of them. Delusional people with messiah complexes, running around posting on websites everywhere, proclaiming the evils of global finance and the tyranny of "debt slavery". In other words, slackers that can't make a proper living and cant afford a house. Very sad indeed.

You are an utter gobshite, hate to get all personal but this is the uttering of a complete *****. Take a look around you plank; do you think this moribund system has worked?

Take a look around at your credit fuelled housing miracle you ignorant, thick and utterly clueless individual. Look what it has done to major finance institutions, take a look at the 100,000 folk who are losing their jobs each month, take a look ruined fabric of families as both parents scurry back to work, take a look at the hundreds of thousands of young folk with debt before they even start work, look at the those poor folk not able to save and living hand to mouth, month by month and the toll it takes mentally and physically on people, now go ****** yourself you ugly speck of detritus.

Foul mouthed, yes. Pissed off extremely that some pond life who thinks that the way to make money in life is ride a property bubble at the expense of generations to follow thinks that we are slackers. Nah mate, have shed loads saved and work my **** off, you know how you are meant to make a living through hard work and ingenuity. You should try it sometime.

YOU ARE THE SLACKER PARASITE THAT WE WILL BE RID OFF WITH THE COLLAPSE OF THIS MOST UGLY OR ERAS IN BRITISH HISTORY. It is your time that is over.

To everyone except MCgobshite i am sorry for this tirade.

[clubberdude]

Mortgage approvals up to 42,000, 3rd monthly rise in a row.

And...

[Brave New World]

Touche!

PS: Hamish, you know we're not all that bad, some of us just like a debate and happen to have different views to you (in fact, you and I established the other day that we're not really far apart on our views of this particular crash, although we do differ significantly on what will happen in the long term. I bet you'll find the same with a lot of posters. You're a bear in disguise, really ;]

Nah he is just a ****

[The McGlashan]

More anti-'slacker' ranting from Hamish the other day:

It annoys me that the feckless may now be able to buy a house, when they don't really deserve it. It annoys me that people who made poor choices in life, may now have the opportunity to catch up with those who were responsible.

Workaholic Hamish is distressed that 'slackers' who work any less than he might be able to afford a house. His position is simply one of envy - he envies those who will benefit from more affordable housing. Remember, he not only bought at peak prices in 2007, he did it in 1988 too.

Having bought into the producer/consumer paradigm; having swallowed and regurgitated wholesale the catchphrases, jingles and slogans of the affluenza society; having worked so very hard (50+ hours/week) for so very long, he now surveys his devaluing property portfolio like the dog in the manger, furious and envious that the upcoming generation might have to work less hard for a shorter time to achieve a similar standard of 'having'.

The only 'good' that rising house prices would do Hamish would be to re-inforce his affluenza, validating his workaholism and enabling him to continue lording money over his relatives to control them - whilst simultaneously consolidating his position as increasingly insurmountable by future generations whom he wishes to see forced to struggle vainly to catch him up. Continually rising house prices would mean that they never can. This is what Hamish wants - a compliant, heavily-indebted and defeated workforce. He wants this outcome because that is what he is himself. The abused turns into the abuser.

God forfend that life should be for living and enjoying. Its for working! It's for servicing debt! So you can buy 'toys' that don't really satisfy, so you work harder so you can afford to service bigger debt and get 'better' toys that fail to satisfy proportionally.

Edited June 2, 2009 by The McGlashan

[clubberdude]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I do think this is a blip, of sorts. But I also think we are so close to the bottom, that whilst we will see further falls, they may well be within the margin of normal seasonal movements before a pronounced recovery early next year.

And I note you chose to ignore this part...... I suppose, theoretically, the graph could also be prone to a margin of error. As prices are now rising, the number could be 42,000.

Right, can you explain to me how we can be anywhere near the bottom when unemployment is rapidly rising? Not to mention that when this government run out of money, the whole thing is going to come crashing down in such a catastrophic fashion, we will never have seen anything like it.

You are firmly in fantasy island by the sounds of things.

Serious question - When do you think we are going to see another housing boom of the magnitude of that seen in 2007?

[Sybil13]

And...

Mc Tavish enters the equation but articles below confirm it isn't only the people on HPC who can see that the market has only one way it can go , unless Mc Tavish is saying that the people who write the articles he does not post as threads are all , "Delusional people with messiah complexes, running around posting on websites everywhere, proclaiming the evils of global finance and the tyranny of "debt slavery". In other words, slackers that can't make a proper living and cant afford a house. Very sad indeed":

Mortgage Lending 60% lower than 2008

Building societies report drop in mortgage lending

Lending levels starting to stabilise but are still 60 per cent lower than 12 months ago

Mortgage lending by building societies fell slightly in April and was 60 per cent lower than last year, according to new figures from the Building Societies Association (BSA).

Mortgage Lending down 55% yoy

If the average price of a UK home falls below £150K (which seems probable given the latest Land Registry report) then with the average outstanding mortgage being circa £115K the vast majority of mortgagees will be unable to satisy the current 25% equity criteria most lenders require in order to transfer the debt onto their books.

Both gross and net mortgage lending has collapsed to levels not seen since 2001, raising the question; "could house prices actually fall back to this level, a level which would in effect wipe away the majority of house price growth experienced over the last decade?"

With lenders simply sitting on their huge piles of 'tax payer gifted' bail out cash, in order to meet with capital adequacy ratios as opposed to lending, a severe over-correction now looks a distinct possibility...

[spivT]

Workaholic Hamish is distressed that 'slackers' who work any less than he might be able to afford a house.

Having bought into the producer/consumer paradigm; having swallowed and regurgitated wholesale the catchphrases, jingles and slogans of the affluenza society; having worked so very hard (50+ hours/week) for so very long, he now surveys his devaluing property portfolio like the dog in the manger, furious that the upcoming generation might have to work less hard for a shorter time to achieve a similar standard of 'having'.

The only 'good' that rising house prices would do Hamish would be to re-inforce his affluenza, validating his workaholism and enabling him to continue lording money over his relatives to control them - whilst simultaneously consolidating his position as increasingly insurmountable by future generations whom he wishes to see forced to struggle vainly to catch him up. Continually rising house prices would mean that they never can. This is what Hamish wants - a compliant, heavily-indebted and defeated workforce. He wants this outcome because that is what he is himself. The abused turns into the abuser.

God forfend that life should be for living and enjoying. Its for working! It's for servicing debt! So you can buy 'toys' that don't really satisfy, so you work harder so you can afford to service bigger debt and get 'better' toys that fail to satisfy proportionally.

I find it a tad confusing/amusing, the idealogies of some of the tory bory homeowners. Inspite of their railing against nulabour expansion of the public sector and so-called 'coasters' in reality they have nulabour in part to thank for a period of interest rate manipulation, and all that other 'great moderation' jazz that would have been a welcome relief to the relative volitilty of the tory boom-bust era. And undoubtedly helped to encourage a period of confidence/irrational exuberance in property speculation.

the old dog-eat-dog tories should really be nulabour devotees. Or maybe they only accept the part of nulabour idealogy that they agree with ie the part that is to all intents and extention of tory ideas toward the role of the financial sector, home ownership, enterprise but chose to forget all the other stuff which is really important as contributary to the hpi - notably that public sector expansion, the fuelling of the private credit bubble etc.

Ofcourse a real tory would say...let those who overleveraged, who borrowed what they could not afford, or merely speculated on a one-way housing bet should be the ones to take the haircut as market forces play out and we see the bust following the boom....in reality mctavish is confused about the 'feckless' and who's really getting a bailout. The reality is that our housing market is only partly a story of work ethic, it's as much about good fortune/luck and plenty of laziness amongst it as the 50k a year non-jobs or 30k a year benefit handouts that helped to fuel it.

[pete.hpc]

Is it just 'richyc' and 'loobloo' that are completely paranoid about 'trolls'...??

Sit down, take a deep breath, and comprehend there are many who disagree with you. And why? Cause you talk utter cr*p.

Yes, it's definately those that predicted and understood why and how a crash was about to happen that were talking "utter cr*p"

[Sybil13]

Indeed, the place is full of them. Delusional people with messiah complexes, running around posting on websites everywhere, proclaiming the evils of global finance and the tyranny of "debt slavery". In other words, slackers that can't make a proper living and cant afford a house. Very sad indeed.

God the cost to us poor slackers of people getting off their arses:

FSA Staff paid £20m in bonuses

The FSA paid its staff £19.7m in bonuses last month, a 40 per cent increase on last year’s payouts, according to figures obtained by the Liberal Democrats.

A Freedom of Information request revealed that £4m went to executives earning over £100,000 and one employee received a bonus of £90,000.

Still good on them they deserve it they have clearly done such a good job.

[FreeTrader]

Council of Mortgage Lenders comment on the approvals data:

"House purchase approvals continued to edge up in April, to 43,000 in the month on a seasonally adjusted basis. This is up from 40,000 in March and is the highest level since April last year (when the figure was 55,000, so this April's number still represents a 22% fall year-on-year).

"It looks almost inevitable that May approvals will be higher than a year ago for the first time since early 2007. However, activity remains at extremely low levels on any historic comparison – and weaker than at any point in the early 1990s. Limited lending capacity and the impact of further job losses are likely to act as a ceiling for how far the improvement can continue, although there could be further modest rises in the coming months."

[Haventaclue]

Is it just 'richyc' and 'loobloo' that are completely paranoid about 'trolls'...??

Sit down, take a deep breath, and comprehend there are many who disagree with you. And why? Cause you talk utter cr*p.

[Kazuya]

Council of Mortgage Lenders comment on the approvals data:

"House purchase approvals continued to edge up in April, to 43,000 in the month on a seasonally adjusted basis. This is up from 40,000 in March and is the highest level since April last year (when the figure was 55,000, so this April's number still represents a 22% fall year-on-year).

"It looks almost inevitable that May approvals will be higher than a year ago for the first time since early 2007. However, activity remains at extremely low levels on any historic comparison – and weaker than at any point in the early 1990s. Limited lending capacity and the impact of further job losses are likely to act as a ceiling for how far the improvement can continue, although there could be further modest rises in the coming months."

[Sybil13]

Oh, I know full well you're not all that bad. There are many posters here like yourself who I quite enjoy a bit of civilised debate with.

But it has to be said the majority **jump straight in with the ad hominems, or make you read through a page of cut and paste tripe with every single post they make, just to get to one line of original argument, or confuse objectivity re prices with morality re prices, or..... well, you get the idea. For them I have no patience. Also for the genuine slackers, of which many reside round here, I have no patience. STR's I quite like. Pure unbridled capitalism, and property speculation at it's finest. Doesn't make them morally any different to BTL, but I quite like BTL-ers too.

Ha. I have no time for idiots like Sibley, but that doesn't in any way make me a bear in disguise.

Or indeed Merryn Somerset Webb , Stay Away From Property it Has Much Further to Fall who he said :

Is an ugly, odious, crash ramping little attention whore.

Scum of the earth.

One is left wondering if people on HPC are so intolerable why Hamish feels the need to spend so much time on here. One is also left wondering what Hamish believes he does for the HPC forum that is so much more valuable than the rest of us do, perhaps it is the way he comes on here slagging off anyone who he considers to be his inferior , which is just about everyone , but can't see how that is a valuable contribution towards anything can you?

**That bit is me but he loves me really......he must do otherwise he would find something better to do with his time bless him

Edited June 2, 2009 by Sybil13

[Bloo Loo]

God the cost to us poor slackers of people getting off their arses:

FSA Staff paid £20m in bonuses

Still good on them they deserve it they have clearly done such a good job.

the top echelons of government havent learned from the expenses Fiasco...entitlement is wrong...earning is right.

How can the FSA be EARNING Bonuses....its a public body.....do Constables get bonuses? no...they do their duty....so should everyone else in public service.

[jborg]

Getting your cause and effect mixed up there. If property prices hadn't got so high in the first place (what the bulls wanted and what they continue to desire), then repos wouldn't have elevated in the first place. I think you'll find the bears simply want affordable housing. I'd say there's a few bears on this forum that want to profit from the situation we face, but I guarantee ALL the bulls want to profit from it in some way.

Hear hear!

[jborg]

Indeed, the place is full of them. Delusional people with messiah complexes, running around posting on websites everywhere, proclaiming the evils of global finance and the tyranny of "debt slavery". In other words, slackers that can't make a proper living and cant afford a house. Very sad indeed.

So, as someone who works long hours saving lives (literally) every working day, the fact that i cant afford a house and have been unable to due to horrific inflated house prices for years, i'm a slacker and i'm wrong to blame both poorly regulated financial systems and irresponsible lenders? Is that what you're saying?

[andykn]

So, as someone who works long hours saving lives (literally) every working day, the fact that i cant afford a house and have been unable to due to horrific inflated house prices for years, i'm a slacker and i'm wrong to blame both poorly regulated financial systems and irresponsible lenders? Is that what you're saying?

Doesn't the Housing Corporation spend 2 billion quid a year to provide housing for people in your situation?