Capacity crunch on National Grid is delaying new homes in UK by years - Council leaders warn of ‘infrastructure crisis’ that will also affect green energy schemes and hinder growth

[Saving For a Space Ship]

Capacity crunch on National Grid is delaying new homes in UK by years

Council leaders warn of ‘infrastructure crisis’ that will also affect green energy schemes and hinder growth

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/mar/10/capacity-crunch-on-national-grid-is-delaying-new-homes-in-uk-by-years

Quote

Building schemes for thousands of homes are on hold, while new ­projects face delays of up to four years in some parts of the UK because of a ­lengthening queue of developers waiting to be connected.

 

Those hoping to build new wind turbines, solar farms or micro-hydroelectric schemes face even longer waits after a deluge of new connection requests, many of them from speculative schemes.

Ministers have asked the National Infrastructure Commission (NIC) to investigate, but senior members of the District Councils’ Network (DCN), part of the Local Government Association, say the delays are slowing down the UK economy. Bridget Smith, the DCN’s vice-chair and leader of South Cambridgeshire district council, said: “Nationally, we’ve got an absolute ­crisis in all infrastructure.”

Plans by Michael Gove, the housing secretary, to build 150,000 homes in Cambridge to create a British Silicon Valley were already being hampered by lack of water, she said. “And where’s the power coming from? Something fundamental has to change.”

Susan Brown, the leader of Oxford city council, who is also a DCN vice-chair, said that 90 new homes in the Littlemore district had been meant to have heat pumps. “The National Grid basically said ‘we won’t have enough power to connect them’ so half the houses are going to have to have gas boilers instead – it’s so frustrating.”..

 

Edited March 10 by Saving For a Space Ship

[Stewy]

You'd be surprised how little %age the cost of the actual energy now is the end delivered unit...all these additional schemes (ROCs, carbon, contracts for difference, network upgrades etc etc) are adding on a huge amount...

[NoHPCinTheUK]

Nationalise the critical infrastructure is the only way to modernise them at this point. 
 

The rentiers owning them have no interest upgrading them.
They only care about the dividend at the end of the quarter. Water, National grid, telcom, all should go back under government ownership as we have now reached the stage where no private money will even be spent on new projects.

I am a free-market guy but for gods sake this is embarrassing. 

Edited March 10 by NoHPCinTheUK

[fellow]

42 minutes ago, Stewy said:

You'd be surprised how little %age the cost of the actual energy now is the end delivered unit...all these additional schemes (ROCs, carbon, contracts for difference, network upgrades etc etc) are adding on a huge amount...

I think water capacity is the main issue in this area. The width of the main pipes limits the maximum flow rate and exceeding this results in low water pressure or no water further downstream. £Millions would need to be spent digging up miles of pipework to upgrade the capacity.

Edited March 10 by fellow

[Saving For a Space Ship]

6 minutes ago, NoHPCinTheUK said:

Nationalise the critical infrastructure is the only way to modernise them at this point. 
 

The rentiers owning them have no interest upgrading them.
They only care about the dividend at the end of the quarter. Water, National grid, telcom, all should go back under government ownership as we have now reached the stage where no private money will even be spent on new projects.

I am a free-market guy but for gods sake this is embarrassing. 

+1

[NoHPCinTheUK]

5 minutes ago, fellow said:

I think water capacity is the main issue in this area. The width of the pipes limits the maximum flow rate and exceeding this results in low water pressure or no water further downstream. £Millions would need to be spent digging up miles of pipework to upgrade the capacity.

Why they don’t do it? 
 

Something is completely broken in the system  when it seems that even building a water network is something beyond our fiscal and engineer capabilities. Of course it’s not. We have enough money and skills to do it. 
 

We’re literally talking about putting down pipes, non build a brand new nuclear power station. 

Edited March 10 by NoHPCinTheUK

[Stewy]

7 minutes ago, NoHPCinTheUK said:

Nationalise the critical infrastructure is the only way to modernise them at this point. 
 

The rentiers owning them have no interest upgrading them.
They only care about the dividend at the end of the quarter. Water, National grid, telcom, all should go back under government ownership as we have now reached the stage where no private money will even be spent on new projects.

I am a free-market guy but for gods sake this is embarrassing. 

Because that worked well for the railways, roads and NHS 🤣

[fellow]

5 minutes ago, NoHPCinTheUK said:

Why they don’t do it? 
 

Something is completely broken in the system  when it seems that even building a water network is something beyond our fiscal and engineer capabilities. Of course it’s not. We have enough money and skills to do it. 
 

We’re literally talking about putting down pipes, non build a brand new nuclear power station. 

No incentive for the private water companies or the private builders to pay for it and the Government (taxpayer) is broke. Easier to just build the houses elsewhere and limit immigration to certain areas.

[Maghull Mike]

They short on Hydro carbons as well.............

https://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-flew-to-venezuela-for-talks-with-president-nicolas-maduro-13091597

[bodgittandscarper]

13 minutes ago, fellow said:

I think water capacity is the main issue in this area. The width of the main pipes limits the maximum flow rate and exceeding this results in low water pressure or no water further downstream. £Millions would need to be spent digging up miles of pipework to upgrade the capacity.

You'd add new pipes (ring main) rather than dig up the old ones, but yes, millions that water companies wil never invest unless re-nationalised.

[Stewy]

Nationalisation solves nothing...it will just introduce political gaming and with the same people involved. 

[Fat Winston]

There is also the overlooked issue of the extra land drainage required. For example  in areas with farm land, flooding is becoming more of a problem because the field ditches and sluices are not being maintained/enlarged to cope with this extra run off. The builders do pay a levy to the local council when they build a new estate to pay for this apparently, who in turn are supposed to pay the environment agency to  the work. A lot of farms try and keep on top of it them selves to a point. Some famers have just given up on there waterlogged land and stopped farming it. There is a large commercial farm/producer that has done this in the north west of England. That is a worrying things that isn't getting addresses.

IMHO It also feeds the climate change narrative and allows the issues to be blamed on something else.

[zugzwang]

32 minutes ago, Stewy said:

Because that worked well for the railways, roads and NHS 🤣

Actually, it did. And continues to do so in much of Europe and the Far East, whereas utility privatisation has never been known to work wherever it's been tried. Enron being the paradigmatic example of that failure. The NHS is still publicly owned despite the various assaults made on it by your miserable Tory chums over the years.

[The Angry Capitalist]

1 hour ago, Saving For a Space Ship said:

Capacity crunch on National Grid is delaying new homes in UK by years

Council leaders warn of ‘infrastructure crisis’ that will also affect green energy schemes and hinder growth

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/mar/10/capacity-crunch-on-national-grid-is-delaying-new-homes-in-uk-by-years

 

Lol.

Yes. It's pathetic at this stage in the game.

There's nothing wrong with privatizing services such as water or electricity but you need to ensure there is competition so no company can have a monopoly and maximize profits without re-investing any into upgrading infrastructure etc.

There is only one water pipe connecting households.

We only have 1 company to choose from.

Therefore, we either pay what they charge and put up with their shenanigans or we go without water.

Same with railways.

Only 1 track on majority of routes.

So if you want to go from A to B at 10 am on Monday you have one company to choose from so pay the price or get the bus etc.

If there is no scope for competition then the services should be nationalized.

It's not a perfect solution but at least things will get done even if it costs the taxpayer an arm and a leg to do so as opposed to the parasitical system we have at the moment where the water companies cannot be bothered to upgrade the pipes to stop leaks and solve the sewage issues.

BRITAIN IS ON THE VERGE OF COMPLETE COLLAPSE. BASIC SERVICES CANNOT EVEN BE DELIVERED TO ITS POPULATION.

[Stewy]

3 minutes ago, The Angry Capitalist said:

 

BRITAIN IS ON THE VERGE OF COMPLETE COLLAPSE. BASIC SERVICES CANNOT EVEN BE DELIVERED TO ITS POPULATION.

It really isn't.

This hyperbloviating hides the fact that we live in a very wealthy nation in very good times...so many are ungrateful about the high quality of life that we now have...

[jiltedjen]

I don’t mind my nation grid dividends.

i mean you can’t beat them join them?

also it’s a captive market, people are not really forced to buy inflated tech shares, but need power generally not to freeze to death, same goes with a lot of ‘safer’ investments

I think the UK is horrifically unfair and unequal, but eventually you cross the threshold for the unfairness being in your favour instead of acting against you.

the UK problems would take generations to repair, there is zero will, decline is baked in.

[hurlerontheditch]

West London is stuggling for power

 

Developers have been told that housing developments in west London could be banned for up to a decade due to a shortage of electricity

A letter from the Greater London Authority (GLA) warned housebuilders that three London boroughs are already rejecting planning applications because the grid is low on capacity.

 

https://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/news/electricity-shortages-could-lead-to-new-homes-ban-in-west-london

[winkie]

Apparently according to the papers this week if true, even some of the asylum seekers want to get out and go back to France.

[canbuywontbuy]

1 hour ago, NoHPCinTheUK said:

Why they don’t do it?

Something is completely broken in the system  when it seems that even building a water network is something beyond our fiscal and engineer capabilities. Of course it’s not. We have enough money and skills to do it.

We’re literally talking about putting down pipes, non build a brand new nuclear power station. 

Roughly 10 to 15 years ago, I was complaining on this forum under one avatar or another saying that infrastructure isn't keeping up with uncontrolled immigration to my home town (at the time) of Northampton.  This has been a problem that's been growing and growing (literally), year after year. The bare-bones infrastructure of the UK is creaking under the seams.  They can't just build 500k new homes a year, there's not the infrastructure to meet the needs of those extra homes.  House prices and rent will remain stubbornly high for years to come (decades probably).  Seriously (seriously) - get out while you can.  Also: interest rates aren't going down anytime soon.  People are going to be broke for the years ahead.

Edited March 10 by canbuywontbuy

[The Angry Capitalist]

56 minutes ago, Stewy said:

It really isn't.

This hyperbloviating hides the fact that we live in a very wealthy nation in very good times...so many are ungrateful about the high quality of life that we now have...

BS and you know it. The country is falling apart.

Local authorities across the country are going bankrupt with many on the verge.

We are spending hundreds of millions per month housing people in temporary accommodation due to shortages of available housing stock.

In London alone it is £90 million per month:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-68424945

According to one study 1 in 3 households have less than £1,000 in savings.

Raw sewage is getting pumped out into the rivers and seas.

We can't build anything properly as we have seen with HS2 and nuclear power stations. They either take forever to get off the ground or get majorly delayed during the building process with costs going way over the projected estimates.

The public is losing trust in the authorities.

Things are breaking down at an alarming rate.

The waiting lists at the NHS are ridiculous.

We have had a 10 year trend of a rise in food banks.

A lot of people are in debt up to their eyeballs.

And so on.

Edited March 10 by The Angry Capitalist

[Big Orange]

We're not spiralling right down at a fast rate of knots like South Africa or Venezuela (yet) but it won't surprise me that main urban parts the UK and Western Europe are at similar stages of pre-collapse that those now failing states were at in the 1990s.

[Casual-observer]

1 hour ago, The Angry Capitalist said:

BS and you know it. The country is falling apart.

Local authorities across the country are going bankrupt with many on the verge.

We are spending hundreds of millions per month housing people in temporary accommodation due to shortages of available housing stock.

In London alone it is £90 million per month:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-68424945

According to one study 1 in 3 households have less than £1,000 in savings.

Raw sewage is getting pumped out into the rivers and seas.

We can't build anything properly as we have seen with HS2 and nuclear power stations. They either take forever to get off the ground or get majorly delayed during the building process with costs going way over the projected estimates.

The public is losing trust in the authorities.

Things are breaking down at an alarming rate.

The waiting lists at the NHS are ridiculous.

We have had a 10 year trend of a rise in food banks.

A lot of people are in debt up to their eyeballs.

And so on.

The councilman's comments about this hindering growth is the elephant in the room.....the same green shoots Stewy has been alluding to for the past year are being throttled. They're not sprouting because of reasons such as this. 

The housing market being in a plateau IS also what's throttling growth. Low volumes again feed into the wider economy. 

From a councils perspective they're being hammered with high immigration which is eating up their budgets via homelessness.

At the same time new housing (and therefore potential ne council tax payers) are also being throttled because there's no national level planning going on for new infrastructure to prop it up. 

This all feeds into why the tax base has stagnated. Traditionally Westminster would simply throw money at the problem but with a stagnating tax base that options off the table and the lack of national planning is really starting to show up.     

 

[kzb]

4 hours ago, fellow said:

No incentive for the private water companies or the private builders to pay for it and the Government (taxpayer) is broke. Easier to just build the houses elsewhere and limit immigration to certain areas.

Easier just to increase the price of water to decrease consumption.

The same for energy; in fact the net zero plan absolutely depends on "dynamic pricing", in other words rationing by price.

[Si1]

Meanwhile Tory MPs are actively campaigning against electricity infrastructure. Both Sunak and Truss have argued to alternatives to new pylon infrastructure, apparently in contravention of basic physics. 

Oh and we haven't built a new reservoir in this country for decades. NIMBY NIMBY ra ra ra.

#stagnationisland

 

[Si1]

2 hours ago, Big Orange said:

We're not spiralling right down at a fast rate of knots like South Africa or Venezuela (yet) but it won't surprise me that main urban parts the UK and Western Europe are at similar stages of pre-collapse that those now failing states were at in the 1990s.

I have a suspicion we could have trouble in coming years if people are relying on British exceptionalism aka London growth. I suspect the regional cities may be better places having more room to grow. But London is ridiculous.