Shoplifting is out of control. Forget the police – stores need to up their game

[winkie]

3 hours ago, debtlessmanc said:

 

The hassle of being taken down the station, made to wait 5 hours to be processed etc is not worth a £5 steak…

it just needs zero tolerance, every offence gets an arrest and an afternoon in the cells.   
 

Or on the spot fine of £20 to be released from the station?

there is also the tourism issue. read eg trip advisor on the Paris metro, a few posts on how cheap and efficient it is and hundreds of complaints about scammers.

How many £5 steaks etc, have they stolen before they get taken down the station and offered a hot drink and possibly a bed for the night?......get a mate to bail them out for £20.

Theft in other places to be aware of:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/jul/21/why-barcelona-is-a-street-hotspot-and-how-to-beat-the-thieves

 

[coypondboy]

I have witnessed several shoplifting events in our town whilst out shopping, sadly too few police and security guards given up as impossible to get a conviction and the thiefs know it.  They are easy to spot very thin and scruffy with a drug/alcohol addiction so benefits not enough.

Kirsty Walk on Newsnight came to the same conclusion 'shoplifting is now legal' and the first signs of a breakdown in society. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001ph5q/newsnight-shoplifting-blight-what-can-be-done

[reddog]

2 hours ago, Big Orange said:

Abject morons in power across decades saving or siphoning off money out a system that will likely crumble and collapse years after most of them retired then passed away.

Anarchy is more prone to producing barbaric vigilante punishments (see Brazil and South Africa).

I think we got into this topic before.  My prediction was eventually for well known supermarkets like Sainsbury's, Lidl etc.  You will have to use an app to scan into the shop, which will allow you through a set of barriers (like one of those Amazon automated shops).  If you don't fit the right profile (former shop lifter, no bank account, maybe even note spending enough money in said shop) you are not allowed in.

 

People that can't use the main shops will have to use privately run corner shop type places which will charge a large premium for their inconvenience serving shop lifters and the poor.  If anyone gets our of hand in those types of shops, there is likely to be some vigilantly action.

 

The left will complain about this without realising the problem was initiated by not properly enforcing laws on shoplifting.

[HSvetz]

...and people say you can't predict the future😄

 

[shlomo]

13 minutes ago, reddog said:

 

The left will complain about this without realising the problem was initiated by not properly enforcing laws on shoplifting.

It is not the left, it is the breakdown in society due to Covid

[winkie]

2 minutes ago, shlomo said:

It is not the left, it is the breakdown in society due to Covid

Do not use COVID as the scapegoat.......

[shlomo]

5 minutes ago, winkie said:

Do not use COVID as the scapegoat.......

Covid has changed people, so many now no longer see the point in working for money to buy food and goods, that social contract is over, I know so many people who have taken early retirement, we have learned to become gypsies and forgotten the Protestant work ethic 

[debtlessmanc]

46 minutes ago, coypondboy said:

I have witnessed several shoplifting events in our town whilst out shopping, sadly too few police and security guards given up as impossible to get a conviction and the thiefs know it.  They are easy to spot very thin and scruffy with a drug/alcohol addiction so benefits not enough.

Kirsty Walk on Newsnight came to the same conclusion 'shoplifting is now legal' and the first signs of a breakdown in society. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001ph5q/newsnight-shoplifting-blight-what-can-be-done

Again the example shown was alcohol and cigarettes being stolen.

society is getting quite lawless in its attitudes and I have sympathy with the fish rots from the head argument that there is no good example being set. The case of the MP sent to jail before the last election refusing to resign is a good example.

my son works in Aldi in relatively nice part of the country. The other day he accidentally gave some middle aged guy £5 too much change, realised immediately and asked for it back. The guy spat in his face and ran off ffs. What’s that all about?

Edited August 27, 2023 by debtlessmanc

[debtlessmanc]

2 minutes ago, shlomo said:

Covid has changed people, so many now no longer see the point in working for money to buy food and goods, that social contract is over, I know so many people who have taken early retirement, we have learned to become gypsies and forgotten the Protestant work ethic 

I am afraid there is truth in this. But also the response of management is to get more authoritarian and enter into some sort of feedback loop we’re everyone else is less inclined to do as they are told.

[14stFlyer]

5 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

I am afraid there is truth in this. But also the response of management is to get more authoritarian and enter into some sort of feedback loop we’re everyone else is less inclined to do as they are told.

“The beatings will continue until morale improves.”

[AThirdWay]

4 hours ago, Insane said:

I saw this in a small East London Corner shop over 25 years ago. 

Same in quite a few small shops in the 80's around Dundee... When poverty was high.... I wonder if there's a connection? 🤔

[shlomo]

24 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

I am afraid there is truth in this. But also the response of management is to get more authoritarian and enter into some sort of feedback loop we’re everyone else is less inclined to do as they are told.

Becoming more authoritarian will have no impact on where society ends up, the reason they are becoming more authoritarian is because if all you have is a hammer everythink looks like a nail.

[Big Orange]

The Wild West, etc, paradoxically became more draconian and capricious than today with enforcing punishment (see also the "Kangaroo Court" arising in similar conditions on the Australian frontier).

[canbuywontbuy]

1 hour ago, shlomo said:

Covid has changed people, so many now no longer see the point in working for money to buy food and goods, that social contract is over, I know so many people who have taken early retirement, we have learned to become gypsies and forgotten the Protestant work ethic 

Well said.  You've pretty much summed up the mood-shift since Covid. 

[winkie]

1 hour ago, shlomo said:

Covid has changed people, so many now no longer see the point in working for money to buy food and goods, that social contract is over, I know so many people who have taken early retirement, we have learned to become gypsies and forgotten the Protestant work ethic 

Maybe they have become more woke, aware and awake to who is gaining, who is losing and who will forever stand still.

[debtlessmanc]

15 minutes ago, canbuywontbuy said:

Well said.  You've pretty much summed up the mood-shift since Covid. 

Guy in Aldi asked my son why he was working there , "go on the benefits, its much easier"

[Big Orange]

I can remember going into the big Morrisons over at Fishponds, Britol, very recently and an entire ailes of expensive "hard" drinks (like brandy & vodkha, etc) was totally encased in a plastic security screen

[Big Orange]

*Double Post*

Edited August 27, 2023 by Big Orange

[winkie]

8 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

Guy in Aldi asked my son why he was working there , "go on the benefits, its much easier"

Why benefits........when everyone else is borrowing everything they need...who is to say that even benefits are paid with borrowed money?

[anonguest]

1 hour ago, debtlessmanc said:

society is getting quite lawless in its attitudes and I have sympathy with the fish rots from the head argument that there is no good example being set.

I do agree with that sentiment entirely. The example of the MP given is an excellent one.

BUT, on the specific issue of shoplifting....

There is shoplifting and there is shoplifting.  Stealing whisky and fags can never, IMO, be regarded in the same light and equated with stealing some meat, a tub of butter, soap, etc.

We will know just how bad the economic situation is getting when even those who would have previously been horrified at the thought of themselves ever engaging in something so 'vulgar' as shoplifting find themselves stealing their first bits of foodstuffs/groceries from supermarkets, to help make ends meet. 

Based on real life cases, one such regaled/confessed to me personally not so long ago, it could well often start as shoplifting combined with real shopping (i.e. paying at the checkout for most of the stuff but surreptitiously hiding some, usually smaller, items and not paying for those). That first step 'helping' them overcome the psychological barrier inhibiting them from stealing.  Then progressing to more overt shoplifting, depending on the level of hardship being experienced.

Charitable foodbanks and the like have relieved some pressure but I am sure they are getting to point where the demand will outstrip supply.  IF the economic status quo continues (i.e. cost of living continues to outpace earnings) then stealing for food/groceries WILL become more widespread. I'm of sure of it as I am that the Sun will rise in the east tomorrow.

[anonguest]

1 hour ago, shlomo said:

Becoming more authoritarian will have no impact on where society ends up

Not a great student of history are you?  😉

[anonguest]

2 hours ago, shlomo said:

2 hours ago, reddog said:

The left will complain about this without realising the problem was initiated by not properly enforcing laws on shoplifting.

It is not the left, it is the breakdown in society due to Covid

For some who usually writes interesting stuff. That has to be just about one of the dumbest things I have read from you

Edited August 27, 2023 by anonguest

[shlomo]

3 minutes ago, anonguest said:

Not a great student of history are you?  😉

I was alluding to the fact that authoritarianism will not increase productivity

[A.steve]

1 hour ago, shlomo said:

Covid has changed people, so many now no longer see the point in working for money to buy food and goods, that social contract is over, I know so many people who have taken early retirement, we have learned to become gypsies and forgotten the Protestant work ethic 

While I don't share your perception of a link to having 'forgotten the Protestant work ethic' - I do think the events of 2020 fundamentally changed people.  My perception is that a much greater proportion of people are struggling mentally... I think events fundamentally undermined confidence - and, without confidence, it is far harder to cope with everyday hurdles.

I think of it as analogous (though less obvious and dramatic) to the shell-shocked demobilised after WWI or those suffering PTSD after more recent wars.  I perceive a widespread subconscious recognition that anything considered 'work' is undeserving of effort.  This might be a perfectly valid narrow analysis for any individual - but, systemically, it is devastating.  There does not seem to be any narrative that motivates - perhaps history will record now as the "Great general malaise of the 2020s"?  I doubt it will continue indefinitely - at some point... people will start to care about some things again.  I'm not sure what those things will be... or, even, if it will be the same people who will, eventually, find motivation.

[winkie]

8 minutes ago, anonguest said:

I do agree with that sentiment entirely. The example of the MP given is an excellent one.

BUT, on the specific issue of shoplifting....

There is shoplifting and there is shoplifting.  Stealing whisky and fags can never, IMO, be regarded in the same light and equated with stealing some meat, a tub of butter, soap, etc.

We will know just how bad the economic situation is getting when even those who would have previously been horrified at the thought of themselves ever engaging in something so 'vulgar' as shoplifting find themselves stealing their first bits of foodstuffs/groceries from supermarkets, to help make ends meet. 

Based on real life cases, one such regaled/confessed to me personally not so long ago, it could well often start as shoplifting combined with real shopping (i.e. paying at the checkout for most of the stuff but surreptitiously hiding some, usually smaller, items and not paying for those). That first step 'helping' them overcome the psychological barrier inhibiting them from stealing.  Then progressing to more overt shoplifting, depending on the level of hardship being experienced.

Charitable foodbanks and the like have relieved some pressure but I am sure they are getting to point where the demand will outstrip supply.  IF the economic status quo continues (i.e. cost of living continues to outpace earnings) then stealing for food/groceries WILL become more widespread. I'm of sure of it as I am that the Sun will rise in the east tomorrow.

Noticed food donations to charity are irratic, have been declining and demand increasing......feeding kids in the school holidays is very expensive, growing active kids eat like a horse.......they eat much more than  frail passive elderly people......our children are our future.....feed them and teach them well.