Labours HARD left demand their pound of flesh

[Fromage Frais]

50 minutes ago, Insane said:

But how do you get some of that £8 Trillion? A huge amount of it is an illusion. 

Hit the city swillers and they will go elsewhere so you while getting nothing from them you will also destroy the pensions and investments of Jo Average. 

Take Elon Musk,

Politicians dream of taking his money and dream off all the programmes and entitlements they can splurge on with it.

Problem is its a pile of debt could it be worth 300b in the future yep.... could he go bankrupt in the future yep also.

The value is the assets - the liabilities and the assets are volatile and he himself lives off loans against stock options.

In that scenario the political pressure is to get as much out of him but how does a government worker value the shares and then ask Musk to borrow money to pay 1.7%?  So in effect the wealth tax becomes a company balance sheet tax of 1.7%

Take my business at 1% rates > today its now worth circa 25-30% less simply due to the lending multiple reducing would I have to pay the wealth tax on 1.7% of last year if hypothetically it was worth less than 3m now.

Or say I have a pub thats worth 4 million £ do I go and borrow a million £ to keep it under the £3m take that out.

Even if I wanted to implement such a tax what a pain in the arse it will be.... then you will have the paper/zombie millionaires whom will have to close their businesses due to the tax etc etc.

Edited August 12, 2023 by Fromage Frais

[Fromage Frais]

4 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

Property is the most obvious thing to tax because it can't be moved but other assets could be included with property if they're held outside the country or declared elsewhere.

yep but thats the reason they won't do it union leaders have property

[sta100]

1 hour ago, Mrs Doyle said:

You don't think different genders should be treated equally? 

Horrible strawman

You think there should be over 100 different genders? Several thousand years of having two sexes, all been discarded within a few years and being accepted by the civil service that there are more than 100 as fact?

You want to treat them all equally? That's over 100 different approaches to healthcare required for each gender that has it's own special needs, particularly people identifying as furry animals might in fact need legislation that allows them to be treated by a vet in order for them to be treated equally (this is not a joke) And you think tax should be raised to pay for this?

Edited August 12, 2023 by sta100

[zugzwang]

3 minutes ago, anonguest said:

So says you.

BUT I'm still waiting for a link or reference!

What you don't get, because you're an idiot, is that IF you have a long history of writing stuff that is demonstrably crap then the naturally reasonable stance of people reading what you write will be to insist on seeing supporting evidence for what you write - otherwise to reasonably assume it's crap.

So, one more time, PLEASE provide a link or reference that unambiguously shows that Adam Smith was "viscerally opposed" to inheritance of property.

IF you can't then either;

have the humility to acknowledge that what you wrote was wrong/emotive hyperbole

or.....

STFU!

 

 

The quote is from Adam Smith's Lectures on Jurisprudence, a draft version of the Wealth of Nations. It's quite well-known.

The Founding Fathers certainly took Smith seriously. If there was one thing the Revolutionary generation agreed on it was the incompatibility of democracy and inherited wealth.

Thomas Paine, like Smith and Jefferson, made much of the idea that landed property itself was an affront to the natural right of each generation to the usufruct of the earth, and proposed a "ground rent" — in fact an inheritance tax — on property at the time it is conveyed at death, with the money so collected to be distributed to all citizens at age 21, "as a compensation in part, for the loss of his or her natural inheritance, by the introduction of the system of landed property."

Bloody Leftist.

 

[zugzwang]

17 minutes ago, Fromage Frais said:

yep but thats the reason they won't do it union leaders have property

The unions are urging Starmer to do it!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/aug/11/modest-wealth-tax-could-raise-more-than-10bn-for-public-services-says-tuc

 

 

[Mrs Doyle]

39 minutes ago, sta100 said:

Horrible strawman

You think there should be over 100 different genders? Several thousand years of having two sexes, all been discarded within a few years and being accepted by the civil service that there are more than 100 as fact?

You want to treat them all equally? That's over 100 different approaches to healthcare required for each gender that has it's own special needs, particularly people identifying as furry animals might in fact need legislation that allows them to be treated by a vet in order for them to be treated equally (this is not a joke) And you think tax should be raised to pay for this?

No one has identified as a different species as far as I'm aware. 

I think healthcare is what is appropriate to an individual, so, in terms of the provision of healthcare, yes, I think we should all have equal rights in it. 

By the way, there has been more than two sexes in the previous thousands of years.

Also, gender and biological sex are not the same thing. 

[Mrs Doyle]

1 hour ago, Insane said:

Mrs Doyle Mrs Doyle you are diverging again. 

How are we going to get to the Utopia of a happy contented productive workforce? Now please answer. 

By the way is Zugzwang now a Racist? He does not want any more immigration. Funny thing is you both bat for the same side which is Labour so how can Labour run a country if it's supporters are so opposed on this issue? There is you waning everyone and him wanting no one. Another big split for Labour. 

I was replying to your comment about racism. 

I'm not sure how addressing a point of yours is diverging? 

Maybe your liking of a racist post is something you'd like to diverge from. 

[sta100]

34 minutes ago, Mrs Doyle said:

No one has identified as a different species as far as I'm aware.

I think healthcare is what is appropriate to an individual, so, in terms of the provision of healthcare, yes, I think we should all have equal rights in it. 

By the way, there has been more than two sexes in the previous thousands of years.

Also, gender and biological sex are not the same thing. 

Furry isn't a different species, it's a gender identity. Gender identities do indeed have a role in the provision of healthcare. As for more than two sexes in the previous thousands of years, this is just pointless argumentative nonsense

Please do inform Starmer that gender and biological sex are not the same thing. Also the healthcare providers that have now replaced sex with gender in their policies as if they are interchangable. In fact someone's operation was cancelled because they didn't want to be intimately treated by someone who identified as a woman who's biological sex was male. Imagine a future where you have to accept nursing from someone dressed as a cat because it's discriminatory not to do so. Like I say, it's not a joke.

I'm sure you'll want to discuss this indefinitely because I'm sure all this pandering to a tiny minority of people at the expense of everyone else massively increases productivity, which was your point wasn't it, taxpayers money is being spent on this so we can be more productive.

We're all a happier more productive workforce for re-educating everyone that there's over 100 different genders I'm sure. I can see why it's so important for the civil service to invest taxpayers money into this, why teachers are improving education by teaching it. We're totally going to outperform China who give not two single hoots about gender identity and fill their own version of tiktok with videos of science and engineering rather than videos of people dressing up as furry animals and meowing.

Edited August 12, 2023 by sta100

[Fromage Frais]

1 hour ago, zugzwang said:

Property is the most obvious thing to tax because it can't be moved but other assets could be included with property if they're held outside the country or declared elsewhere.

Yes and also a new train line, schools, hospitals etc etc add to the value of it.

You also have to disincentivise the creation of empty multiple million terrace houses which ripple out housing costs from the top.

 

[captainb]

35 minutes ago, sta100 said:

Furry isn't a different species, it's a gender identity. Gender identities do indeed have a role in the provision of healthcare. As for more than two sexes in the previous thousands of years, this is just pointless argumentative nonsense

Please do inform Starmer that gender and biological sex are not the same thing. Also the healthcare providers that have now replaced sex with gender in their policies as if they are interchangable. In fact someone's operation was cancelled because they didn't want to be intimately treated by someone who identified as a woman who's biological sex was male. Imagine a future where you have to accept nursing from someone dressed as a cat because it's discriminatory not to do so. Like I say, it's not a joke.

I'm sure you'll want to discuss this indefinitely because I'm sure all this pandering to a tiny minority of people at the expense of everyone else massively increases productivity, which was your point wasn't it, taxpayers money is being spent on this so we can be more productive.

We're all a happier more productive workforce for re-educating everyone that there's over 100 different genders I'm sure. I can see why it's so important for the civil service to invest taxpayers money into this, why teachers are improving education by teaching it. We're totally going to outperform China who give not two single hoots about gender identity and fill their own version of tiktok with videos of science and engineering rather than videos of people dressing up as furry animals and meowing.

Brother works in MRI.

Had a complaint where patient stated they were not asked appropriately if they could be pregnant by the technician. Apparently you shouldn't use contrast on pregnant ladies as not been approved.

It was a male transitioning (early stages) to female.

Response of trust was to apologise and change the guidance to ask all people who identify as women going forward. 

Asking people without a womb if they could be pregnant to appease feelings. Gone rather monty python.

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by captainb

[Social Justice League]

At this point the Tories are hard left too.

Bailout after bailout is fecking communism.

[Former postman]

There is no such thing as the "hard left" in UK politics. 

There are union leaders which sit on the left of the political spectrum and advocate for a Labour government and things like a couple of percent wealth tax on those that have been absolutely creaming the UK working man. But that's hardly communism, is it?

[Former postman]

Any way, a wealth tax imo is unworkable. 

The easy fix would be to tax unearned capital gains at the same level as income, including house equity.

[sta100]

41 minutes ago, captainb said:

Brother works in MRI.

Had a complaint where patient stated they were not asked appropriately if they could be pregnant by the technician. Apparently you shouldn't use contrast on pregnant ladies as not been approved.

It was a male transitioning (early stages) to female.

Response of trust was to apologise and change the guidance to ask all people who identify as women going forward. 

Asking people without a womb if they could be pregnant to appease feelings. Gone rather monty python.

 

It's totally bonkers.

 

[Insane]

6 hours ago, Mrs Doyle said:

I was replying to your comment about racism. 

I'm not sure how addressing a point of yours is diverging? 

Maybe your liking of a racist post is something you'd like to diverge from. 

More waffle and card pulling. 

[Johnno1167]

11 hours ago, PeanutButter said:

Oooo £400. Seriously, what’s a Porsche cost? 

 

Over the 5 years you have to pay it , it’s £2000.  A few percentage points max.

[Maghull Mike]

6 hours ago, Social Justice League said:

At this point the Tories are hard left too.

Bailout after bailout is fecking communism.

Both Parties are "Buying votes".......there is No one to force them to obey any rules..............the ONLY thing i can see coming that MIGHT bring them to hell is a return to Gold standard...

[Mrs Doyle]

8 hours ago, sta100 said:

Furry isn't a different species, it's a gender identity. Gender identities do indeed have a role in the provision of healthcare. As for more than two sexes in the previous thousands of years, this is just pointless argumentative nonsense

Please do inform Starmer that gender and biological sex are not the same thing. Also the healthcare providers that have now replaced sex with gender in their policies as if they are interchangable. In fact someone's operation was cancelled because they didn't want to be intimately treated by someone who identified as a woman who's biological sex was male. Imagine a future where you have to accept nursing from someone dressed as a cat because it's discriminatory not to do so. Like I say, it's not a joke.

I'm sure you'll want to discuss this indefinitely because I'm sure all this pandering to a tiny minority of people at the expense of everyone else massively increases productivity, which was your point wasn't it, taxpayers money is being spent on this so we can be more productive.

We're all a happier more productive workforce for re-educating everyone that there's over 100 different genders I'm sure. I can see why it's so important for the civil service to invest taxpayers money into this, why teachers are improving education by teaching it. We're totally going to outperform China who give not two single hoots about gender identity and fill their own version of tiktok with videos of science and engineering rather than videos of people dressing up as furry animals and meowing.

How has someone identifying as a different gender been at the expense of everyone? 

Have you heard the term intersex? 

[Chunketh]

4 minutes ago, Mrs Doyle said:

How has someone identifying as a different gender been at the expense of everyone? 

Have you heard the term intersex? 

l'll throw a starter for 10 in there.

Cis women engaging in competitive sport.

[sta100]

58 minutes ago, Mrs Doyle said:

How has someone identifying as a different gender been at the expense of everyone? 

Have you heard the term intersex? 

Well for a start there's vast swathes of people who want to discuss terms like intersex instead of spending their time reading up on economics and aren't aware of the key factors that affect productivity. Quite a lot of them are employed by the civil service and in education.

They're usually not on this forum which is why I like it.

Didn't realise the term intersex has been around for thousands of years and was being relentlessly discussed pre-2010 though, that's a new one on me.

 I guess if you can't see how China are rubbing their hands at the West prioritising these sorts of of discussions then you can't see how they are at everyone's expense and will just cost everyone more time and money for something which may or may not benefit an undeterminable but likely small number of people.

If we took your line of reasoning  about economics we should just hand out beer and steak en-masse because, that's nice, and everyone will be more productive. It's about as realistic as the level of perfect equality that a mass of people seem to be deluded into thinking is achievable. And these people are detracting from real messages of what children should be thinking about, science, maths, discipline, etc.

The bottom line is if you can't understand how a 10 year old being encouraged to self identify as a furry is at everyone's expense then you're not mathematically literate enough for this forum.

 

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by sta100

[sta100]

33 minutes ago, Chunketh said:

l'll throw a starter for 10 in there.

Cis women engaging in competitive sport.

I don't recognise this term "cis". I don't see why there's  a need to give them a label that indicates they have wombs just to appease a small number of people.

Edited August 12, 2023 by sta100

[Big Orange]

11 hours ago, sta100 said:

Furry isn't a different species, it's a gender identity. Gender identities do indeed have a role in the provision of healthcare. As for more than two sexes in the previous thousands of years, this is just pointless argumentative nonsense

Hmmm, isn't Furry-ism is more like a suite of sexual fetishisms/role plays on a spectrum than a specific gender as such? Although it gets bombarded by bizarre moral panics by the Right.

[no_dependent4663]

two-thirds of all new wealth has gone to the 1%. very sensible idea and long overdue worldwide. May you be judged whoever thinks it's more important that hoarding be protected and inequality entrenched.

[Chunketh]

6 hours ago, sta100 said:

I don't recognise this term "cis". I don't see why there's  a need to give them a label that indicates they have wombs just to appease a small number of people.

It’s important to be precise when discussing this issue without being offensive.

[14stFlyer]

1 hour ago, Chunketh said:

It’s important to be precise when discussing this issue without being offensive.

Unfortunately sta100 appears to have taken offence from your preciseness.