PeanutButter Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Has anyone got specific examples of the labour party anti semitism that led to all this? Not being anti Israel, and not "failing to deal with or blocking" complaints. Actual examples of Jews being slurred or discriminated against. I'm genuinely interested as all I hear/see is the resulting outcry but not what triggered it. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45030552 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Not sure what you meant re political thread ? The man couldn't just keep his trap shut and consider his response exactly the same behaviour left wingers coat off Trump for - in that context stupid response have a bit of grace or start an internal civil war as @Staffsknotsaid he chose option 2 loyal only to his dinosaur views not his party JC isn't an antisemite and has the right to defend himself publicly against malicious smears and innuendos. The EHRC report made this explicitly clear; as does the Labour Party's legal constitution. 'Suck Here' has acted unlawfully. Meanwhile, we have a Prime Minister who openly sneers at muslims and homosexuals. Double standards, much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debtlessmanc Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) JC isn't an antisemite and has the right to defend himself publicly against malicious smears and innuendos. The EHRC report made this explicitly clear; as does the Labour Party's legal constitution. 'Suck Here' has acted unlawfully. Meanwhile, we have a Prime Minister who openly sneers at muslims and homosexuals. Double standards, much. Indeed it isn't "fair" but tories tend to get a pass, after all the many on the left just believe them to be racists and bigots openly or in the closet. When they say something (obviously or apparently) racist it is just a "the mask has slipped" moment, confirmation bias in effect. They do tend to get their knickers in a twist about Tory BAME MPs as it does not fit the narrative Naturally this does not apply to the Left's own darlings. Antisemitism was always going to the nemesis of JC because, sadly, he clearly believes it is not the same as other kinds of racism. He comes from the kind of thinking that someone has to be suffering from capitalism in some way to get his sympathy. Edited October 30, 2020 by debtlessmanc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wighty Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wighty Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsknot Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 He meant UNDERSTATED with all his support for Hamas and Hezbollah. Scum Makes me laugh that the leftie snowflakes call everyone else a racist but support a party that hates Jews. Astonishing but there are none so blind as those who will not see. How's that promised inquiry into Islamaphobia in the Tories coming along. Or have rightwing snowflakes cried and don't want to honour that promise now? Was it just said to shut up Warsi in the run up to elections? Gloating at the left when the right is also a sh!tshow is not the strongest of moves. But you probably did it for Shiggles. Morever the Labour Party is taking steps to ensure anti-semitism is not condoned, so people voting Labour and the party itself are actively rejecting anti-semitism. But that may be too complex an argument for you to have picked up on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Social Justice League Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Corbyn doesn't hate Jews ffs. He hates free market capitalism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Indeed it isn't "fair" but tories tend to get a pass, after all the many on the left just believe them to be racists and bigots openly or in the closet. When they say something (obviously or apparently) racist it is just a "the mask has slipped" moment, confirmation bias in effect. They do tend to get their knickers in a twist about Tory BAME MPs as it does not fit the narrative Naturally this does not apply to the Left's own darlings. Antisemitism was always going to the nemesis of JC because, sadly, he clearly believes it is not the same as other kinds of racism. He comes from the kind of thinking that someone has to be suffering from capitalism in some way to get his sympathy. There are many, many people suffering from the ills of capitalism in Israel! Together with a resurgence of ultra Orthdoxy/ethnosupremacy the country's future looks increasingly bleak. The EHRC did not find the Labour Party to be institutionally racist. Corbyn's history as a lifelong campaigner against racism is a matter of public record. Whether you agree with all, part, or none of JC's reply to the EHRC is neither here nor there. The EHRC report explicitly states that Corbyn is not only entitled to exactly that opinion, but that his right to express it is protected by human rights law – and even that as an MP has an enhanced protection. There are no grounds for his suspension from the Labour Party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainb Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 There are many, many people suffering from the ills of capitalism in Israel! Together with a resurgence of ultra Orthdoxy/ethnosupremacy the country's future looks increasingly bleak. The EHRC did not find the Labour Party to be institutionally racist. Corbyn's history as a lifelong campaigner against racism is a matter of public record. Whether you agree with all, part, or none of JC's reply to the EHRC is neither here nor there. The EHRC report explicitly states that Corbyn is not only entitled to exactly that opinion, but that his right to express it is protected by human rights law – and even that as an MP has an enhanced protection. There are no grounds for his suspension from the Labour Party. You accept that a political party / club / employer / society can have separate and additional rules to just those enshrined in law? If you join some tennis clubs you agree to wear all white when playing. Just saying there's no law against wearing black shorts.. so i cant be suspended, misses the point entirely. The party specifically said not to downplay the report. He did it repeatedly. Has he broken any law by doing so? of course not. He has however broken what the party said, so as a separate organisation they can suspend him and follow their own disciplinary procedure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsknot Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) There are many, many people suffering from the ills of capitalism in Israel! Together with a resurgence of ultra Orthdoxy/ethnosupremacy the country's future looks increasingly bleak. The EHRC did not find the Labour Party to be institutionally racist. Corbyn's history as a lifelong campaigner against racism is a matter of public record. Whether you agree with all, part, or none of JC's reply to the EHRC is neither here nor there. The EHRC report explicitly states that Corbyn is not only entitled to exactly that opinion, but that his right to express it is protected by human rights law – and even that as an MP has an enhanced protection. There are no grounds for his suspension from the Labour Party. There was no law against going out to a restaurant in London back then but Barbarians players breached the conditions laid out by RFU and lots of them are facing disciplinary action for it. Edited October 30, 2020 by Staffsknot Typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunketh Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Gove giving advice on how to maintain integrity! ROFL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debtlessmanc Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 There are many, many people suffering from the ills of capitalism in Israel! Together with a resurgence of ultra Orthdoxy/ethnosupremacy the country's future looks increasingly bleak. The EHRC did not find the Labour Party to be institutionally racist. Corbyn's history as a lifelong campaigner against racism is a matter of public record. Whether you agree with all, part, or none of JC's reply to the EHRC is neither here nor there. The EHRC report explicitly states that Corbyn is not only entitled to exactly that opinion, but that his right to express it is protected by human rights law – and even that as an MP has an enhanced protection. There are no grounds for his suspension from the Labour Party. “RacIsm is a class issue” I do know the far left, this is their mantra. Problem is when a group of “privileged” people complain of racism it does not fit the narrative. If you truly believe that racism is a symptom of class based injustice, just as you might believe that religion is too (the heartbeat of a heartless world etc) then you respond to allegations of AS in the way Corbyn did. He is also a conspiracy theorist (reaction to the salisbury poisonings). In the scenario the allegations were eg Mossad buggering about. Yes that might be true, indeed it probably is true. This is why it is such a poisonous issue. His inability to be a leader was demonstrated clearly be his failure on this. Anti racism has to be more important than anti-capitalism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsknot Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Apparently Starmer called Corbyn and explained what the response to the report would be and what actions would be taken, the night before the public unveiling of report. JC allies are denying it but looks like he knew full well what would happen and chose himself over party and to become a martyr. Am afraid that's it for any respect had, knew what would happen at first instance not just 2nd interview. He is looking for a platform to campaign on and protest it is politically motivated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Social Justice League Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Apparently Starmer called Corbyn and explained what the response to the report would be and what actions would be taken, the night before the public unveiling of report. JC allies are denying it but looks like he knew full well what would happen and chose himself over party and to become a martyr. Am afraid that's it for any respect had, knew what would happen at first instance not just 2nd interview. He is looking for a platform to campaign on and protest it is politically motivated. Corbyn was giving his opinion and it was the correct opinion. Many Jews in the Labour party have also said that it was completely overblown nonsense. Some in the Labour party hate socialism, which is fooking ridiculous, as they're obviously in the wrong party it seems. They are a total laughing stock and Starmer is now looking like a Blair gimp project. Not saying Corbyn is any kind of saviour, but the Labour party is supposed to be socialist ffs. Why didn't the Corbyn haters all join the Tories if they wanted to keep the status quo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsknot Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 I'm sorry but this has gotten to the stage where an independent body finds there is a case for the Labour Party to answer and people are saying it is a setup and witch hunt? This is the kind of fake news call I'd expect of brain dead Trumpists, not people whom, if we separate out the political posts largely supporting Corbyn doing a stunt here, I often find more measured and have higher regard for. Look I'm sure the Met didn't like being found institutionally rascist, but anyone minimising the findings in public would have to be disciplined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Corbyn was giving his opinion and it was the correct opinion. Many Jews in the Labour party have also said that it was completely overblown nonsense. Some in the Labour party hate socialism, which is fooking ridiculous, as they're obviously in the wrong party it seems. They are a total laughing stock and Starmer is now looking like a Blair gimp project. Not saying Corbyn is any kind of saviour, but the Labour party is supposed to be socialist ffs. Why didn't the Corbyn haters all join the Tories if they wanted to keep the status quo? The Labour party is the party of the collective left. This included Socialists. It also includes many other threads of collectivism, self reliance, as well as non conformist religions. Dont get over excited by the rose and the daft songs put in by the Ism-ists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Corbyn was giving his opinion and it was the correct opinion. Many Jews in the Labour party have also said that it was completely overblown nonsense. Some in the Labour party hate socialism, which is fooking ridiculous, as they're obviously in the wrong party it seems. They are a total laughing stock and Starmer is now looking like a Blair gimp project. Not saying Corbyn is any kind of saviour, but the Labour party is supposed to be socialist ffs. Why didn't the Corbyn haters all join the Tories if they wanted to keep the status quo? Many Labour Jews have not. Jezza is the daft brainless front for a nasty bunch of people who Uncle Jezza let in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richmondtw Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 (edited) How's that promised inquiry into Islamaphobia in the Tories coming along. Or have rightwing snowflakes cried and don't want to honour that promise now? I have no idea and bearing in mind all the recent muslim terror attacks and those in the past I do not frankly care. I have not been aware of any Jewish terror attacks in this country or even in France recently. As for snowflake it is you who is ranting and being rude because you have a sense of entitlement that everyone must agree with you or you stamp your little tootsies and have a tantrum. I accept that others have the right to a different opinion and if they want to vote for a man who supports the IRA Hamas and Hezbollah that is their choice. That is how democracy works you see. Gloating at the left when the right is also a sh!tshow is not the strongest of moves. But you probably did it for Shiggles. I am not gloating just stating a fact. I used to be a member of the Labour party but left when the anti-Semitism showed it ugly face. I would like to be able to vote Labour in the future. Morever the Labour Party is taking steps to ensure anti-antisemitism is not condoned, so people voting Labour and the party itself are actively rejecting anti-antisemitism. I accept that at last the party is doing something about it. What I said was that Corby boy did not nor did his acolytes. Did you not see the Jewish female MP having to have a police escort into the conference and being abused by Labour voters including the Momentum idiot Corbyn lauded at the conference. Maybe that is acceptable to you I find is disgusting. But that may be too complex an argument for you to have picked up on. You can be rude on a forum - well done. You embody the problem with the Labour party. If anyone does not support them they just are rude to them rather than consider why that may be. Very childish. And the reason they have lost 4 elections in a row. Corbyn doesn't hate Jews ffs. He hates free market capitalism. He supports Hamas who stated intention in their manifesto is to rid the planet of every Jew. Seems a strange stance to take for a man who does not hate jews. He also of course sent his own kids to private school but wanted to deny others that right. So not hypocrisy there whatsoever. Edited November 1, 2020 by richmondtw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Wibble Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 You accept that a political party / club / employer / society can have separate and additional rules to just those enshrined in law? If you join some tennis clubs you agree to wear all white when playing. Just saying there's no law against wearing black shorts.. so i cant be suspended, misses the point entirely. The party specifically said not to downplay the report. He did it repeatedly. Has he broken any law by doing so? of course not. He has however broken what the party said, so as a separate organisation they can suspend him and follow their own disciplinary procedure. What people in the party say is not the same as the party rules. The party rules are comprehensive and are ratified by the NEC and conference. You appear to be confusing two separate things. The law also does supercede. Take ASTs for example. You cannot impose rules that contravene law. There's a reason the LP won't state under what rule he has been suspended under. The suspension maybe explained by two situations. 1) Once under suspension you are not allowed to discuss the case until it is resolved. That could be convenient to prevent someone speaking out on say, something like the EHRC report. 2) The LP are in the middle of an NEC election which Starmer desperately needs to hold balance in. Many LP members are resigning over Corbyns suspension and it's been revealed that their NEC vote will get cancelled. Also, Evans has asked for all staff hands on deck to process the flood of resignations. Some would ask why the urgency but others may refer back to a statement he made under Blair when proposing to overhaul party voting systems: “representative democracy should as far as possible be abolished in the Party”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Wibble Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 Many Labour Jews have not. Jezza is the daft brainless front for a nasty bunch of people who Uncle Jezza let in. Can you post the percentage of vases of AS in the LP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Wibble Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 I'm sorry but this has gotten to the stage where an independent body finds there is a case for the Labour Party to answer and people are saying it is a setup and witch hunt? This is the kind of fake news call I'd expect of brain dead Trumpists, not people whom, if we separate out the political posts largely supporting Corbyn doing a stunt here, I often find more measured and have higher regard for. Look I'm sure the Met didn't like being found institutionally rascist, but anyone minimising the findings in public would have to be disciplined. Let's be clear here: The main reason for the investigation was to determine if the LP was institutionally racist. It found it wasn't. In fact, it found only two cases where it broke the law and both were because LP officials were involved ergo making the party responsible. Livingstone was one (who was promptly suspended which was backed by Corbyn). The other, was a Councillor. The EHRC report states that under Formby cases being processed were sped up massively. It also pinpointed the Blairites (some on the Panorama programme who Starmer paid off) as being responsible for the previous delays. This was all in the leaked internal report. Finally, of the 23 cases of interference in the disciplinary process the report makes it clear most were to speed up cases, not hinder them. This report is not the smoking gun its being portrayed as and it could be why Corbyn got suspended to make it out as one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 Can you post the percentage of vases of AS in the LP? https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/publication-download/investigation-antisemitism-labour-party Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Wibble Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 The Labour party is the party of the collective left. This included Socialists. It also includes many other threads of collectivism, self reliance, as well as non conformist religions. Dont get over excited by the rose and the daft songs put in by the Ism-ists. The Labour Party is actually a defined Democratic Socialist party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Wibble Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/publication-download/investigation-antisemitism-labour-party I've read the report thanks. What I asked you was the percentage of AS cases in the LP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Wibble Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 Many Labour Jews have not. Jezza is the daft brainless front for a nasty bunch of people who Uncle Jezza let in. One of the dividing lines between those Jews supporting Corbyn and those opposing him is political. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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