Coronavirus - potential Black Swan?

[anonguest]

Just now, Ah-so said:

But it's just a theory.. 

Happened to chat with a Flat Earther recently. Quite entertaining actually. LOL

[Arpeggio]

2 minutes ago, anonguest said:

Happened to chat with a Flat Earther recently. Quite entertaining actually. LOL

What did they say? Lizard men? lol

[scottbeard]

1 hour ago, pig said:

Lol ok so you’re just gurgling silly sounds to please yourself.

The point of the original lockdown if you recall was to “flatten the curve” ie “we will all get COVID but let’s try and not get it all at once and overwhelm the NHS”

The point of the second was to give time for more people to be vaccinated

Whats the point of more lockdowns? It would only make sense if you think you could lockdown until COVID is “over”

Hence my comment

[anonguest]

Just now, Arpeggio said:

What did they say? Lizard men? lol

Not much. Must have been a recent 'convert' and not sufficiently well versed to be able to try and counter even simple observations - like different star constellations in different hemispheres, etc.

[dances with sheeple]

17 hours ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

BREAKING NEWS:

DOUBLE JABBED PEOPLE RETURN TO PUBS AND ENJOY THEIR LIVES NOT LIVING IN FEAR OF A VIRUS THAT THEY HAVE BEEN INOCULATED FROM. 

 

I really do have to question what it is about the anti-mask, anti-vaccine, anti-any solution that they are so keen on returning everyone to lockdown. Someone's been enjoying their 1.5 year long holiday sitting at home on furlough a bit too much me thinks. 🙄

I`m not anti-mask, I am for sensible distancing, masking and partial lockdown until we get a clearer picture of this virus, I am against pretending that a rushed out untested shot in the arm "inoculates" people from very much at all, the last few people I have spoken to who contracted Covid were all double jabbed, don`t you see the absurdity of pretending that a "vaccine" that doesn`t stop you spreading Covid, doesn`t stop you contracting Covid and probably isn`t very effective against the "variants" that will be thriving as people gather together again is the way forward!

[dances with sheeple]

13 hours ago, pig said:

Ah not quite - if you're less likely to catch it with the vaccination then 'overall' you're less likely to spread it. In practical terms what the above seems to be telling you is that If you do catch it then really you should self-isolate, which is annoying. Basically I think they should recall all scientists from holiday and put Raab on tea duty for them all day until they fix it.

I think you are more likely if you think that the vaccination makes you "safe", it doesn`t, that it does is obvious horseshit IMO. The "vaccine" isn`t about making you "safe" it is about making you "spend" while thinking you are "safe".

 

 

[pig]

15 minutes ago, scottbeard said:

The point of the original lockdown if you recall was to “flatten the curve” ie “we will all get COVID but let’s try and not get it all at once and overwhelm the NHS”

The point of the second was to give time for more people to be vaccinated

Whats the point of more lockdowns? It would only make sense if you think you could lockdown until COVID is “over”

Hence my comment

Yes I know you’re not making much sense  hence the  just making noises to please yourself comment.

We’ve had 3 national lockdowns plus a load of messing about in between that I’ve lost track of.  The only people certain that Covid will simply go away or doesn’t exist or whatever are the ant-vax+anti-lockdown lot.

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

2 minutes ago, dances with sheeple said:

I`m not anti-mask, I am for sensible distancing, masking and partial lockdown until we get a clearer picture of this virus, I am against pretending that a rushed out untested shot in the arm "inoculates" people from very much at all, the last few people I have spoken to who contracted Covid were all double jabbed, don`t you see the absurdity of pretending that a "vaccine" that doesn`t stop you spreading Covid, doesn`t stop you contracting Covid and probably isn`t very effective against the "variants" that will be thriving as people gather together again is the way forward!

Well we are told the vaccines 'saved' 90,000 lives in the UK, but I suspect that is an overestimate and probably most of those lives were not justified 'being saved' in respect of the damage incurred elsewhere to both people and the economy.

90,000 is not many in a population of 70m and I suspect in 12 months most of those 90,000 will have snuffed it anyway.

Refs:

Think Sky News was saying 90,000

The Express rounds up: https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/1479399/coronavirus-news-vaccine-save-100000-lives

ITV says 60,000: https://www.itv.com/news/2021-07-29/vaccines-have-saved-60000-lives-and-prevented-22-million-covid-infections

[Arpeggio]

1 hour ago, anonguest said:

Not much. Must have been a recent 'convert' and not sufficiently well versed to be able to try and counter even simple observations - like different star constellations in different hemispheres, etc.

I met one who mentioned Wernher von Braun's epitaph. Not sure if investing in a Nikon P1000 camera out of curiosity is worth it just to to play Twinkle, twinkle little star, how I wonder what you are.

Interestingly concert pitch used to be 432 Hz, which divided by the 12 chromatic notes is 36. It is now 440 which divided by 12 gives you 3.666666666, which some argue does not sound as nice. The music of Tchaikovsky and Strauss and Beethoven was written in 432 concert pitch.

Edited August 21, 2021 by Arpeggio

[Bruce Banner]

And in the home of the brave....

US Covid: Alabama doctor refuses to treat anyone who is unvaccinated as hospitalisations soar | The Independent

"He said if the patients asked why they needed the vaccine, he said he he told them: “Covid is a miserable way to die and I can’t watch them die like that.”

Not a miserable as dementia or locked in syndrome!

[dances with sheeple]

5 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

Well we are told the vaccines 'saved' 90,000 lives in the UK, but I suspect that is an overestimate and probably most of those lives were not justified 'being saved' in respect of the damage incurred elsewhere to both people and the economy.

90,000 is not many in a population of 70m and I suspect in 12 months most of those 90,000 will have snuffed it anyway.

Refs:

Think Sky News was saying 90,000

The Express rounds up: https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/1479399/coronavirus-news-vaccine-save-100000-lives

ITV says 60,000: https://www.itv.com/news/2021-07-29/vaccines-have-saved-60000-lives-and-prevented-22-million-covid-infections

That implies that lockdown saved them not vaccines? The economy can tick over with some form of lockdown as obviously people can shop/work/ online but the commercial landlords and bankers (BJ`s pals) need the sheeple running full tilt on the big hamster wheel to keep themselves comfortable, that is what is driving all the moves to get people "back to normal" IMO, and it is interesting that it is the big US banks that are trying to set the "back to the office" example (and failing at the moment due to new variants of the virus) because they are the embodiment of milking the hamster wheel!

[dances with sheeple]

16 hours ago, scottbeard said:

Those people aren’t in a pub, they’re in a park.

The loutish behaviour is never welcome pandemic or not, but what’s the problem with young people gathering in parks?  as others have said, people have been vaccinated now - time to move on from lockdowns.  This isn’t North Korea and shouldn’t become so. 

The vaccine doesn`t stop people catching Covid, and may turn out to be completely useless against future variants, THAT`S  the problem! LOL.

[Bruce Banner]

1 minute ago, dances with sheeple said:

The vaccine doesn`t stop people catching Covid, and may turn out to be completely useless against future variants, THAT`S  the problem! LOL.

Indeed, that's why some people are putting their faith in naturally acquired immunity.

[pig]

7 minutes ago, dances with sheeple said:

I think you are more likely if you think that the vaccination makes you "safe", it doesn`t, that it does is obvious horseshit IMO. The "vaccine" isn`t about making you "safe" it is about making you "spend" while thinking you are "safe".

 

 

The vaccines currently deployed are about making you ‘safer’, the Jurys out on whether it makes society ‘safe enough’. Agree that many seem to think it’s a simple magic bullet.

This government setup isn’t able to deal with anything serious so yes they want everything back in its box and ‘normal’. A bit of flag-waving, a few jokes,  chucking out a few bones for their base,  nice headlines, that sort of thing. 

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

3 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

Indeed, that's why some people are putting their faith in naturally acquired immunity.

Which won’t protect against future variants either. Genius. 

[dances with sheeple]

17 hours ago, Arpeggio said:

Ivermectin, a potential anticancer drug derived from an antiparasitic drug

Check this FaceBook ⬇️

Running 5 miles a day for a week isn't necessarily true / the only way either.

Yep, they are trying too hard, like stars of yesteryear on reality shows, ultimately it doesn`t really work.

[Arpeggio]

15 minutes ago, dances with sheeple said:

The vaccine doesn`t stop people catching Covid, and may turn out to be completely useless against future variants, THAT`S  the problem! LOL.

That's where booster shots / more vaccines for various strains come in.

There's a trial for monthly vaccines to treat long Covid: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9775925/Can-long-Covid-cured-monthly-dose-vaccine.html

If vaccines can be ready in 40 days ⬇️ this could mean that if a new strain comes out as often, you could be protected with 9 shots per year.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9270097/New-Covid-vaccines-40-DAYS-taskforce-chief-says.html

If this can be integrated with a digital vaccine ID passport, people can be safe, without even needing to go out of the front door and do anything old fashioned or out of date like exercise.

 

7 minutes ago, dances with sheeple said:

Yep, they are trying too hard, like stars of yesteryear on reality shows, ultimately it doesn`t really work.

What, running 5 miles a day?

I think I understand what you mean, but I think it will work with some people, although they would have already had it by now, so I agree looks like they are trying too hard.

Edited August 21, 2021 by Arpeggio

[dances with sheeple]

17 hours ago, Orb said:

I rest my case. 

No, when I said that there are muppets out there who think being double jabbed "makes them immune to everything" you replied "Well... they kind of are, aren't they?" LOL. You need to try and MAKE a case for this obvious B.S before you can rest anything,  so go on give us a laugh........

[Arpeggio]

33 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

And in the home of the brave....

US Covid: Alabama doctor refuses to treat anyone who is unvaccinated as hospitalisations soar | The Independent

"He said if the patients asked why they needed the vaccine, he said he he told them: “Covid is a miserable way to die and I can’t watch them die like that.”

Not a miserable as dementia or locked in syndrome!

He looks healthy.

[dances with sheeple]

25 minutes ago, Arpeggio said:

That's where booster shots / more vaccines for various strains come in.

There's a trial for monthly vaccines to treat long Covid: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9775925/Can-long-Covid-cured-monthly-dose-vaccine.html

If vaccines can be ready in 40 days ⬇️ this could mean that if a new strain comes out as often, you could be protected with 9 shots per year.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9270097/New-Covid-vaccines-40-DAYS-taskforce-chief-says.html

If this can be integrated with a digital vaccine ID passport, people can be safe, without even needing to go out of the front door and do anything old fashioned or out of date like exercise.

 

What, running 5 miles a day?

I think I understand what you mean, but I think it will work with some people, although they would have already had it by now, so I agree looks like they are trying too hard.

No, I meant that the message becomes much less effective if they appear too desperate, like a 70`s TV star trying to do their old routine on Celebrity Bungle or whatever and hoping that the country will fall under their spell again, Bloomberg for example have gone beyond constant scripted references to who is getting "jabbed" that day among the presenters and constant references to "shots in arms" at every and any opportunity to a realm beyond even self parody, they have jumped the shark while trying to put a booster shot into it`s fin as it tries to eat them, the best and only message that will get across is actual proof that people with a jab just don`t have anything to do with Covid, like a person who drives having nothing to do with bus travel, but of course for this round of vaccines that is never going to be the case, hence the media/politicians just doubling down on their original shite that the vaccine is the be all and end all to this problem because they don`t really have anything else.

Edited August 21, 2021 by dances with sheeple

[dances with sheeple]

39 minutes ago, pig said:

The vaccines currently deployed are about making you ‘safer’, the Jurys out on whether it makes society ‘safe enough’. Agree that many seem to think it’s a simple magic bullet.

This government setup isn’t able to deal with anything serious so yes they want everything back in its box and ‘normal’. A bit of flag-waving, a few jokes,  chucking out a few bones for their base,  nice headlines, that sort of thing. 

You could put Boris in this clip as the Mayor and it would still work.....

 

 

[dances with sheeple]

18 hours ago, Will! said:

If people are asked to do something (wear a mask, social distance etc) how many won't and the impact that has on viral spread against a background of vaccination.

The people who won`t tend to gather in Uni`s, nightclubs and to a lesser extent pubs, IMO the first two should be closed until further notice and the pubs opened but only under very strict and enforced distancing rules. I think we have a disaster coming in the winter because of Boris and all his Freedom Day B.S 

Edited August 21, 2021 by dances with sheeple

[Pmax2020]

3 hours ago, zugzwang said:

 

Deep dive into stupid: Meet the growing group that rejects germ theory

Listen up, sheeple: COVID-19 doesn't exist. Viruses don't cause disease, and they aren't contagious. Those doctors and health experts who say otherwise don't know what they're talking about; the real experts are on Facebook. And they're saying it loud and clear: the pandemic is caused by your own deplorable life choices, like eating meat or pasta. Any "COVID" symptoms you might experience are actually the result of toxic lifestyle exposures—and you have only yourself to blame.

As idiotic and abhorrent as all of the above is, it's not an exaggeration of the messages being spread by a growing group of Darwin Award finalists on the Internet—that is, germ theory denialists. Yes, you read that correctly: germ theory denialists—also known as people who don't believe that pathogenic viruses and bacteria can cause disease.

As an extension of their rejection of basic scientific and clinical data collected over centuries, they deny the existence of the devastating pandemic that has sickened upwards of 200 million people worldwide, killing more than 4 million.

Germ theory denialism isn't new. It can be traced back to the origin of germ theory itself, often to two contemporaries of Louis Pasteur: Claude Bernard and Antoine Béchamp. Both came up with opposing hypotheses to Pasteur's enduring germ theory. Bernard proposed the concept of milieu intérieur, which suggests that the body's internal environment—or terrain—maintains its equilibrium. The state of the terrain, rather than the presence of pathogens, ultimately dictates whether disease will develop (which is not an entirely crazy idea, given what we now know about the microbiome and the immunocompromised). Meanwhile, Béchamp—considered a bitter crank and rival of Pasteur—suggested that pathogenic bacteria are produced by human tissue as a response to a harmful change in the terrain. Thus, bacteria do not cause disease; they are merely a self-created symptom of it—which is clearly just incorrect.

The scientific and medical communities left these ideas behind in light of Pasteur's findings and, later, Robert Koch's foundational concepts for microbial pathogenesis, known as Koch's postulates. But Bernard's and Béchamp's ideas seem to have endured in a fringe community, with their interpretations and explanations shifting and morphing over time. And with the devastating global pandemic, the denialists seem to be having something of a renaissance.

A germ theory denialist emailed me and pointed to a Facebook group called "Terrain Model Refutes Germ Theory," where a particular strain of germ theory denialism is thriving. An administrator for the group noted in April that the group had reached 15,000 members, up from just 147 members in April 2020. Now, just a few months later, the membership tally is up to 18,400.

I’m hearing you, however…..

I work in highways with a wide range of pretty fit and healthy people of all ages. Hard working men, the majority of which work long hours and don’t have time to drink because they are on a standby rota much of the year. These are guys in their 30s, 40s, 50s and 60s, most of which are well toward the healthier, upper percentiles for their age. These are people that will have all had regular cold and flu viruses throughout their lives, often feeling forced to work through them because of work pressure. 
 

Now for my direct experience of ‘covid’ within our company…

I know of a good 25 people that have tested positive for covid. The younger guys in their early 20s didn’t feel a thing - they said they felt a little hung over for a few days. It was nothing. 
 

The workforce however have largely spoke of it being the most horrendous flu they’ve every had. One guy in his late 30s is from a military background and still hasn’t recovered fully. I know guys that prided themselves on having never missed a days work for 20 years - only to miss 3 months and come back to work a shadow of their former selves.

I’ve sat with these people and like other colleagues I’ve been intrigued to hear their account of it. I’ve watched a couple of grown men tear up and say they felt they were going to die. 
 

I don’t deny health plays a huge factor in this - but fit men and women I know have described covid as a living nightmare that’s incomparable to a normal ‘flu’. Many of them have been left with other ongoing issues. 

Edited August 21, 2021 by Pmax2020

[dances with sheeple]

45 minutes ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

Which won’t protect against future variants either. Genius. 

So what is your solution?

[FallingAwake]

Is catching Covid now better than more vaccine?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58270098

Seems to be a pretty balanced article.

I thought this point was interesting (the first quote is just for context)...

"For all the trouble the virus has caused, it is spectacularly simple. It has the famous spike protein, which is the key it uses to unlock the doorway into our body's cells. And 28 other proteins that it needs to hijack our cells and make thousands of copies of itself."

"Whether you've had Moderna or Pfizer or Oxford-AstraZeneca, your body is learning to spot just one thing - the spike protein. This is the critical part of the virus to make antibodies to, and the results - by keeping most out of hospital - have been spectacular. But having the other 28 proteins to target too, would give T-cells far more to go at. "That means if you had a real humdinger of an infection, you may have better immunity to any new variants that pop up as you have immunity to more than just spike," said Prof Riley." [emphasis mine]

So the above vaccines focus on identifying one aspect of the virus (the spike protein), while natural immunity may be better at identifying the virus by other features.