Coronavirus - potential Black Swan?

[zugzwang]

14 hours ago, nightowl said:

and as some of us have spotted there are plenty who want or need CV19 to keep going.

And you claim not to be a denialist!

Edited February 9, 2021 by zugzwang

[copydude]

12 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

Hancock, just now......... Up to 10 years in prison for providing false trace and trace information.

Just unbelievable. And totally unenforceable.  I wouldn't worry, Bruce, for a police state you need policemen and the Tories replaced 40,000 with speed cameras for starters. Oops.

[zugzwang]

3 hours ago, Buzzardo2 said:

How long have you got....?

Do go on.

[zugzwang]

Dupe.

Edited February 9, 2021 by zugzwang

[NoHPCinTheUK]

Is there any comparable measure in place somewhere else? Maybe China? 

[Peter Hun]

12 minutes ago, copydude said:

Just unbelievable. And totally unenforceable.  I wouldn't worry, Bruce, for a police state you need policemen and the Tories replaced 40,000 with speed cameras for starters. Oops.

Easily enforceable by asking airlines and border control. This sort of information has been shared for some time, post 9/11.

[Ah-so]

5 hours ago, nightowl said:

 No. You're too consumed by believe in the phantom menace of the QAnon etc and it keeps tripping you up.

 

QAnon is just part of a wider right-wing movement that has taken over the right of American politics. The Tea Party lead it, backed by violent paramilitaries like the Proud Boys.  Something like 75% of Repubkucan voters believe that there was widespread election fraud. Anti-vaxx hysteria is part of the same movement. And at the forefront are evangelical religious extremists. 

This group has taken over the Republican Party and while that probably means they will stay out of power for some time, Trump still managed to get 75m votes despite the sh1t show of the past four years showing him to be incompetent.

It is far more than a phantom menace - it is a genuine menace. 

[Buzzardo2]

3 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

 

 

https://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/rick-wiles-says-bill-gates-is-building-lucifers-antichrist-system-by-supporting-vaccine-technology/

End Times broadcaster Rick Wiles had a bit of a meltdown on his “TruNews” program last Friday over Bill Gates’ support for the use of technology to help keep track of vaccinations.

............................................

“There’s something very, very wrong with these people,” Lorraine responded. “It’s from the inside out. I think when they trade, they make a deal with Satan that we’re going to do some satanic work here on Earth—they’re exchanging their soul for it."

 

This is an interesting aspect of the online battle, and I've noticed it a few times... Interestingly enough, it seems to be a bit of a repeating pattern on my Microsoft News feed (which I really must turn off,) and in places on this thread too.

 

It seems the way that it goes is that the media outfit (or HPC poster) disagrees with someone who feels they have a legitimate question they want to raise about an issue (the vaccines in this case...)

 

Not content with just saying "no, the info on the vaccines is correct, and here's why" the journalist (or social media poster) takes it upon themselves to make the explicit extrapolation that anyone asking a question about the vaccine must - by definition - be a "QAnon / Alt-right / Bill-Gates-is-Beelzebub / 5G-fries-your-brains / Trumpian / flat earth nutter. "

 

Thus seeking to discredit the original (possibly quite reasonable) question, by deliberately conflating it with other (in reality totally unrelated) issues which are - indeed - absolutely bonkers....

 

I recall one from Microsoft News a few months back, along the lines of "what happens if your Mum doesn't want the vaccine...." and then went on - within the first five lines - to expand to  "so you're talking to your Mum on Zoom about the vaccine - and then you suddenly, for the first time, see the Flat Earth poster on her office wall...." Then it went on to her having a confederate flag on her desk, lifesize blow-up Donald Trump sex toy in the background, and a lizard costume hanging on the back of the door....

 

I kid you not. That's how it went... (I made up the bit in italics for mild comedic effect, obvs.) Did anyone else see that article, and / or has anyone else spotted this unfortunate tendency online? It certainly seems that someone is executing a full-court press to suppress dissent against HMG, for whatever reason, but it's a disturbing (and not particularly intellectually honest, IMHO) development....

 

Curious times.

 

B2

 

 

[copydude]

Thank God at least some MPs are focussing on the real issues.

[Buzzardo2]

18 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

Do go on.

Just checking before I answer in more detail...

 

So you definitely believe that government ministers, their families, and their crony chums, are NOT enriching themselves hand over fist at the expense of the general population?

Likewise, Sunak's billionaire Father-in-Law  and wife have definitely NOT trousered £millions through furloughing 10% of Infosys's UK staff, whilst have a 10%+ uplift in YOY revenues and profits?

£billions of taxpayers money have NOT been given in crony contracts to companies, run by friends of and donors to, the Tory party...

The government's support of small businesses and the self-employed has been exemplary, ensuring sure they are front and centre of the post-Covid recovery - and definitely NOT  bankrupted and then drowned out by big businesses like Amazon, Infosys and others?

And you're therefore 100% certain that there's no incentive, at all, for them to find new and improved excuses to keep the country locked down while they plunder away in a once-in-a-lifetime enrichment frenzy?

 

Asking for a friend, obviously 🤣👍

 

[Riedquat]

8 minutes ago, copydude said:

Thank God at least some MPs are focussing on the real issues.

What's your point?

One of the (yes, many, many things, I admit) that irritates me is a cry of "concentrate on the important issues!" whenever something is done that isn't being paraded around as being top of the list. Getting on with dealing with other things too isn't a sign of not focussing on the most important ones. Focussing should not mean "to the exclusion of everything else."

[moonriver]

29 minutes ago, Buzzardo2 said:

Just checking before I answer in more detail...

 

So you definitely believe that government ministers, their families, and their crony chums, are NOT enriching themselves hand over fist at the expense of the general population?

Likewise, Sunak's billionaire Father-in-Law  and wife have definitely NOT trousered £millions through furloughing 10% of Infosys's UK staff, whilst have a 10%+ uplift in YOY revenues and profits?

£billions of taxpayers money have NOT been given in crony contracts to companies, run by friends of and donors to, the Tory party...

The government's support of small businesses and the self-employed has been exemplary, ensuring sure they are front and centre of the post-Covid recovery - and definitely NOT  bankrupted and then drowned out by big businesses like Amazon, Infosys and others?

And you're therefore 100% certain that there's no incentive, at all, for them to find new and improved excuses to keep the country locked down while they plunder away in a once-in-a-lifetime enrichment frenzy?

 

Asking for a friend, obviously 🤣👍

 

Good post.

Amazing what a political party can get away with when they have an 80 plus majority, very weak opposition and a pandemic.

[Buzzardo2]

10 minutes ago, moonriver said:

Good post.

Amazing what a political party can get away with when they have an 80 plus majority, very weak opposition and a pandemic.

Thanks. I do my best 🤣

 

Indeed, that's what I find extraordinary about all this - that it's all happening in plain sight, and nobody is being held accountable.

I don't for one second think this is about 6ft lizards, 5G, or Bill Gates being the devil reincarnate.

I think it's far simpler than that:

• we have a government with almost limitless "emergency" powers at the moment;
• a bunch of greedy and not-very-talented govt ministers, appointed for their obedience not their talent
  • and apparently gaining something of a taste for their moment of omniscient power;
• a compliant opposition who are (with the notable exception of some values-driven politicians like Jamie Stone and Caroline Lucas) probably just as corrupt as HMG;
  • And trust me, as a former lifelong Tory voter, you have no idea how surprised I am that I just typed that!!
• and we have cronies taking lucrative contracts from ministers who know that - in a couple of years - some very tasty non-Exec and consulting appointments lie in wait, filling their troughs even further.
• Sadly, we also have a lot of "Karens" - who have been bought off with their own taxpayer cash via furlough; get all their information from the BBC / Facebook and Mumsnet, and are therefore apparently fully supportive of the hardest lockdowns possible, for as long as possible;
  • for me, that's why no-one is taking to the streets - 90% of the population haven't been affected financially - yet - and still seem to genuinely believe that this is about a virus that has to be "eradicated" and the only way to survive is to hide behind the sofa and wait for the "vaxseeen" (as the blithering PM insists on calling it

 

Corruption, pure and simple. And no self-respecting, troughing, corrupt politician is going to want it to end any sooner than necessary. The UK economy, and the mental health of millions of people, will be f***ed beyond belief; but they'll go back to their mansions in N Yorkshire and elsewhere, made for life off the back of a couple of years of abusing UK taxpayers and voters.

Unless they are held to account, by a far-reaching and fearless judicial enquiry - led by some judges with real backbone, who don't like hillwalking much. Then we might see some justice - and some long stretches behind bars for some of these deliberate crimes.

 

We can but hope.

[copydude]

19 hours ago, Ah-so said:

But if your health was so bad that you can't survive a vaccination, you aren't going to survive the disease itself.

Er, no. . . . in theory anyway. People with certain allergies or very high blood pressure, for example, are able to manage their conditions and taking the vaccine will be detrimental or even fatal, simply adding to their complications. To what extent, we really don't know. The Astra Zeneca clinical trial of just 300 people over 65 is hardly definitive and why many European countries will not prescribe Astra for over 55s. You may, in fact, be better off taking some extra vitamin C, D and aspirin . . .  a la Trump.

[captainb]

19 minutes ago, copydude said:

Er, no. . . . in theory anyway. People with certain allergies or very high blood pressure, for example, are able to manage their conditions and taking the vaccine will be detrimental or even fatal, simply adding to their complications. To what extent, we really don't know. The Astra Zeneca clinical trial of just 300 people over 65 is hardly definitive and why many European countries will not prescribe Astra for over 55s. You may, in fact, be better off taking some extra vitamin C, D and aspirin . . .  a la Trump.

One issue with that argument. 

Its been given to 10s of millions globally over 65 now. Not 300.

 

Like screaming nobody has tested windshields properly over 50mph!! They might explode!! While totally ignoring your say next to the m1 with thousands of cars whizzing by at 70mph without any issues. 

As time goes on you see the.. It might.. Brigade shift their terms and real world data from millions shows their, 'ahem*.. concerns to be baseless. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by captainb

[copydude]

2 minutes ago, captainb said:

Its been given to 10s of millions globally over 65 now. Not 300

This trial has yet to be completed and the results and findings published. And it will be some time before we ascertain true levels of protection. Which is why most European countries are not prescribing Astra for over 55s. 

[captainb]

42 minutes ago, copydude said:

This trial has yet to be completed and the results and findings published. And it will be some time before we ascertain true levels of protection. Which is why most European countries are not prescribing Astra for over 55s. 

But that's a seperate issue. 

You brought up safety in over 65s which hasn't actually been questioned by any regulator from the evidence. 

Whether it works or not in over 65s has been inferred but not statistically proven, although the early signs in reduced transmission for vaccined people in the UK look positive, given the vast majority have been over 65 so far. 

[copydude]

10 minutes ago, captainb said:

Whether it works or not in over 65s has been inferred but not statistically proven, although the early signs in reduced transmission for vaccined people in the UK look positive, given the vast majority have been over 65 so far. 

True, it's looking good in terms of low side-effects so far but we have no idea whether it actually works for older peope.

Are you sure about reduced transmission? I have read that the vaccinated can still be carriers, like children. For this reason, countries will still insist on testing at borders/airports and the 'vaccination passport' idea is probably a non-starter. 

Just what I read.

[captainb]

1 minute ago, copydude said:

True, it's looking good in terms of low side-effects so far but we have no idea whether it actually works for older peope.

Are you sure about reduced transmission? I have read that the vaccinated can still be carriers, like children. For this reason, countries will still insist on testing at borders/airports and the 'vaccination passport' idea is probably a non-starter. 

Just what I read.

67% is the initial estimate of transmission decrease 

https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2021/covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-confirms-protection-against-severe-disease-hospitalisation-and-death-in-the-primary-analysis-of-phase-iii-trials.html

 

[copydude]

6 minutes ago, captainb said:

67% is the initial estimate of transmission decrease 

 

Cheers. Hmmm, won't necessarily spare you quarantine then. No 'jab and go'. )

[Dr Doom]

2 hours ago, captainb said:

One issue with that argument. 

Its been given to 10s of millions globally over 65 now. Not 300.

 

Like screaming nobody has tested windshields properly over 50mph!! They might explode!! While totally ignoring your say next to the m1 with thousands of cars whizzing by at 70mph without any issues. 

As time goes on you see the.. It might.. Brigade shift their terms and real world data from millions shows their, 'ahem*.. concerns to be baseless. 

There's about 20K excess deaths for January according to ONS data.

If we assume these are all non-vaccine related coincidental deaths, that isn't insignificant, ~0.2%. 1/500.

 

[Arpeggio]

7 hours ago, pig said:

What on earth - are we back on Bill Gates now

You Arpeggio and Doom must be being controlled by microchips lol

 

4 hours ago, zugzwang said:

https://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/rick-wiles-says-bill-gates-is-building-lucifers-antichrist-system-by-supporting-vaccine-technology/

End Times broadcaster Rick Wiles had a bit of a meltdown on his “TruNews” program last Friday over Bill Gates’ support for the use of technology to help keep track of vaccinations.

Why do you get so outraged at these kind of suggestions as "conspiracy theories" when they are already rolling out? are you going keep calling them "conspiracy theories"? does the method really matter whether it's a microchip, quantum dot tattoo or digital ID external to the body that is required and fulfills the same purpose?

It's not just "alt right conspiracy" websites you'll find this. It's starting to creep into the mainstream now too, not that they haven't been talking about this since last year already. Sweden and Denmark are already working on it:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/02/04/sweden-develop-vaccination-passports-allow-travel-meet-friends/amp/

"Sweden is to follow its neighbour Denmark and develop digital 'vaccination certificates' residents can use to travel overseas, to meet an elderly relative in a care home, or even just eat in a restaurant."

Sweden started micro-chipping themselves and moving towards cashless society years ago:

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/sweden-microchips-artificial-intelligence-contactless-credit-cards-citizen-science-biology-a8409676.html

Since then there will be thousands more. Sweden is a very submissive population with 0 food self sufficiency.

[pig]

10 minutes ago, Arpeggio said:

 

Why do you get so outraged at these kind of suggestions as "conspiracy theories" when they are already rolling out? are you going keep calling them "conspiracy theories"? does the method really matter whether it's a microchip, quantum dot tattoo or digital ID external to the body that is required and fulfills the same purpose?

It's not just "alt right conspiracy" websites you'll find this. It's starting to creep into the mainstream now too, not that they haven't been talking about this since last year already. Sweden and Denmark are already working on it:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/02/04/sweden-develop-vaccination-passports-allow-travel-meet-friends/amp/

"Sweden is to follow its neighbour Denmark and develop digital 'vaccination certificates' residents can use to travel overseas, to meet an elderly relative in a care home, or even just eat in a restaurant."

Sweden started micro-chipping themselves and moving towards cashless society years ago:

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/sweden-microchips-artificial-intelligence-contactless-credit-cards-citizen-science-biology-a8409676.html

Since then there will be thousands more. Sweden is a very submissive population with 0 food self sufficiency.

Well, I'm half taking the p1ss - you're already merrily operating under a rigid algorithm so maybe microchipping you would be a bit pointless. Maybe it could kick in for those stopped clock moments ?

[pig]

4 hours ago, zugzwang said:

 

 

https://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/rick-wiles-says-bill-gates-is-building-lucifers-antichrist-system-by-supporting-vaccine-technology/

End Times broadcaster Rick Wiles had a bit of a meltdown on his “TruNews” program last Friday over Bill Gates’ support for the use of technology to help keep track of vaccinations.

During a recent “Ask Me Anything” Gates did on Reddit about the COVID-19 coronavirus outbreak, he noted that “eventually we will have some digital certificates to show who has recovered or been tested recently or when we have a vaccine who has received it.” The “digital certificate” to which Gates referred was most likely quantum dot technology, which is an invisible dye that would be injected into the skin during a vaccination and could then be read by cellphone apps as a way of knowing who has or has not received certain vaccines.

The prospect of injecting anything into the skin predictably reminded Wiles of the biblical Mark of the Beast and he made it clear in no uncertain terms that he would never accept any vaccine that used such technology.

“When is Bill Gates’ serpent tongue going to come out of his mouth, and when will his horns and tail appear?” Wiles said. “ This man is building Lucifer’s Antichrist system … This guy is an enemy of the human race. This guy is an enemy of Almighty God. Bill Gates is turning out to be one very evil man.”

 

https://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/alex-jones-and-deanna-lorraine-say-michelle-obama-is-a-man-and-bill-gates-is-an-alien/

Trump cultist, QAnon conspiracy theorist, and failed congressional candidate DeAnna Lorraine served as an in-studio guest host on Infowars last night, where she and extremist right-wing conspiracy theorist Alex Jones alleged that former First Lady Michelle Obama is a man and that Bill Gates is an alien.

Later in the program, Lorraine insisted that “elites” like Bill Gates “seem like they have very manly looking wives,” which prompted Jones to assert that Gates may be a woman, or possibly an alien.

“These aliens, and I think that’s what they are—I don’t get into like flying saucers. As a human, my first thing is that’s not a human,” Jones said. “There’s something wrong with these people.”

“There’s something very, very wrong with these people,” Lorraine responded. “It’s from the inside out. I think when they trade, they make a deal with Satan that we’re going to do some satanic work here on Earth—they’re exchanging their soul for it."

 

🤣

[Arpeggio]

Just now, pig said:

Well, I'm half taking the p1ss - you're already merrily operating under a rigid algorithm so maybe microchipping you would be a bit pointless. Maybe it could kick in for those stopped clock moments ?

Oh I see. So you think stuff about being micro-chipped (or other methods that fulfill a similar purpose) is conspiraloon material, while you also think I am part of a conspiracy working under an algorithm similar to the operation of a microchip.