FTBs - what's your current thinking?

[Dorkins]

Policymakers would love us all just to buy in at current market prices. It would be good for the taxman, good for BTLers cashing in, good for banks, good for existing homeowners etc. I wonder who the loser would be?

[Pop321]

11 minutes ago, Dorkins said:

Policymakers would love us all just to buy in at current market prices. It would be good for the taxman, good for BTLers cashing in, good for banks, good for existing homeowners etc. I wonder who the loser would be?

And on that point we agree completely?.

Overall summary position (ignoring some regional bandwidth) is FTB’ers beware at this moment in time.

[nickb1]

Politicos are now saying that parliament cannot stop a no deal Brexit, short of Conservatives voting down their own government. Which means no deal is now likely, in my view, and even hard Brexiteers (the more informed ones) admit this would result in short term chaos at least. Expect this to feed through to the housing market. Whilst we we can;t postpone our lives indefinitely waiting for the crunch, i would be waiting for indications to the contrary, ie that no deal can be stopped or postponed, before putting in new offers without substantial discount (asking price -20% minimim?) especially in inflated areas like the SE. The latter is already falling in nominal terms for the last 2 years, even without this kick in the solar plexus.

[Glental]

I made a plan a few years back after being made redundant to leave SE. It was too expensive and not worth the stress. I moved further north and bought at the end of last year. I'm enjoying a slower pace of life here and have lost much of my ambition. I now work to live.

[Arpeggio]

12 minutes ago, Glental said:

I made a plan a few years back after being made redundant to leave SE. It was too expensive and not worth the stress. I moved further north and bought at the end of last year. I'm enjoying a slower pace of life here and have lost much of my ambition. I now work to live.

Good move. What was it in the SE that involved ambition that you can't do in the North, where you work only for a living? (If I've understood you correctly).

I'm in the SE. There are even a few still unsold places listed from since 2014.

Edited June 13, 2019 by Arpeggio

[Glental]

14 minutes ago, Arpeggio said:

Good move. What was it in the SE that involved ambition that you can't do in the North, where you work only for a living? (If I've understood you correctly).

I'm in the SE. There are even a few still unsold places listed from since 2014.

It was just a mental shift for me. I was gearing up to buy in the SE before I lost my job. It made me question the crazy hours I had been putting in (and if getting a huge mortgage was a good idea). 

I was earning around national average wage in London, I'm earning similarly now but work less and have lower living costs. My wife is happy because her family are nearby.

In time I think my earning potential would have been much higher in London so it does feel like a bit of a gamble. It's done now though and I doubt I can afford to go back!

[jiltedjen]

8 hours ago, Glental said:

It was just a mental shift for me. I was gearing up to buy in the SE before I lost my job. It made me question the crazy hours I had been putting in (and if getting a huge mortgage was a good idea). 

I was earning around national average wage in London, I'm earning similarly now but work less and have lower living costs. My wife is happy because her family are nearby.

In time I think my earning potential would have been much higher in London so it does feel like a bit of a gamble. It's done now though and I doubt I can afford to go back!

National average wage in London is like equivalent to minimum wage up country. 

Now you earn similar your doing much much better. London doesn’t make sense unless you have family to live rent free with and can quickly climb the greasy pole. 

 

[winkie]

9 hours ago, Glental said:

I made a plan a few years back after being made redundant to leave SE. It was too expensive and not worth the stress. I moved further north and bought at the end of last year. I'm enjoying a slower pace of life here and have lost much of my ambition. I now work to live.

Good move......you have not lost your ambition you have achieved it.?

[Pebbles]

4 hours ago, winkie said:

Good move......you have not lost your ambition you have achieved it.? 

Exactly I moved north (having slogged away in surrey for 5 years) on about 10-15% less but could buy for cash. It took me a bit longer than I expected at uni due to the  guidiot but knowing I will never have to pay rent and mortgage takes the stress away. Now I work because I want to (i max out my pension contributions because I don't have to save for a house because that cost is known) if i get made redundant no hurry to take first job. My advice is leave the south east the stress isn't worth it (better quality of life which is more than offset from the slightly reduced pay), but do try to make friends (as loneliness caused by my move was very bad for a few years). Today the sun was shining, ride of motorbike on uncongested east anglian country roads (yes there are parts of the country they still exist) to a non oversubscribed doctors then off to work. None of that was possible in surrey.

Edited June 14, 2019 by Pebbles
clarity

[user not found]

48 minutes ago, Pebbles said:

Exactly I moved north (having slogged away in surrey for 5 years) on about 10-15% less but could buy for cash. It took me a bit longer than I expected at uni due to the  guidiot but knowing I will never have to pay rent and mortgage takes the stress away. Now I work because I want to (i max out my pension contributions because I don't have to save for a house because that cost is known) if i get made redundant no hurry to take first job. My advice is leave the south east the stress isn't worth it (better quality of life which is more than offset from the slightly reduced pay), but do try to make friends (as loneliness caused by my move was very bad for a few years). Today the sun was shining, ride of motorbike on uncongested east anglian country roads (yes there are parts of the country they still exist) to a non oversubscribed doctors then off to work. None of that was possible in surrey.

My wife and I considering a move away from SE. East Anglia near the coast is one option... Any recommendations?

[Habeas Domus]

A lot of people stress about the buy/rent dilemma because thay have fallen for the idea that being an "owner" makes you somehow better or more secure.

Someone who buys on an interest only loan and just about makes the payments each month is very similar to someone who rents and just about makes the rent each month - they are both one redundancy and a few missed payments away from being homeless.

On the other hand someone who overpays their mortgage every year and is on track to be debt free in 15 years is very similar to someone who rents and also socks away a significant proportion of money every month with a plan to eventually buy with cash.

• Mortgage... about 9 months that can pass between first getting into arrears and a repossession actually taking place.
   
• Rent... about 8 months that can pass between first getting into arrears and an eviction actually taking place.

So the only differences are - do you think house prices will rise, in which case buy, or do you need the flexibility of being able to move quickly, in which case rent.

 

[warrior88]

8 minutes ago, Habeas Domus said:

A lot of people stress about the buy/rent dilemma because thay have fallen for the idea that being an "owner" makes you somehow better or more secure.

Someone who buys on an interest only loan and just about makes the payments each month is very similar to someone who rents and just about makes the rent each month - they are both one redundancy and a few missed payments away from being homeless.

On the other hand someone who overpays their mortgage every year and is on track to be debt free in 15 years is very similar to someone who rents and also socks away a significant proportion of money every month with a plan to eventually buy with cash.

• Mortgage... about 9 months that can pass between first getting into arrears and a repossession actually taking place.
   
• Rent... about 8 months that can pass between first getting into arrears and an eviction actually taking place.

So the only differences are - do you think house prices will rise, in which case buy, or do you need the flexibility of being able to move quickly, in which case rent.

 

Agreed .. one more difference is that mortgage payment comprises of interest element (comparable to rent) vs. principal repayment.

As long prices are static or will rise, it is better to own.

If price declines are expected, it may be best to rent.

[PeanutButter]

I'd add that job security is also a factor here. I'm sure many of the mortgage holders who work at Honda Ford Jaguar Airbus HSBC Panasonic Toshiba EasyJet Hitachi P&O Sony Lloyds Barclays AXA UBS EBA Unilever Schaeffler Dyson JP Morgan Flybmi EMA MoneyGram BMW Vauxhall Nissan Toyota Bombardier Body Shop Dudson Of Stoke-On-Trent Burberry Quinn Michelin or BritishSteel may feel as if the flexibility of renting would be handy for the next few years.

 

[Pebbles]

26 minutes ago, PeanutButter said:

I'd add that job security is also a factor here. I'm sure many of the mortgage holders who work at Honda Ford Jaguar Airbus HSBC Panasonic Toshiba EasyJet Hitachi P&O Sony Lloyds Barclays AXA UBS EBA Unilever Schaeffler Dyson JP Morgan Flybmi EMA MoneyGram BMW Vauxhall Nissan Toyota Bombardier Body Shop Dudson Of Stoke-On-Trent Burberry Quinn Michelin or BritishSteel may feel as if the flexibility of renting would be handy for the next few years. 

 

Maybe but holding large amounts of cash (i.e. saving in cash or selling to rent) will screw you over on means tested benefits like universal credit if unemployed.

[longgone]

9 minutes ago, Pebbles said:

Maybe but holding large amounts of cash (i.e. saving in cash or selling to rent) will screw you over on means tested benefits like universal credit if unemployed.

best off buying a place outright in the end and having no "view-able" savings  pension credit kicks in. ?

[winkie]

1 hour ago, warrior88 said:

Agreed .. one more difference is that mortgage payment comprises of interest element (comparable to rent) vs. principal repayment.

As long prices are static or will rise, it is better to own.

If price declines are expected, it may be best to rent.

If you move to many areas the price to buy will decline.......the goal is to save the deposit asap even if it means living with parents, or working in a higher paid but rubbish or unsuitable job, working two jobs or extra hours, stop consuming so much and looking for expensive quick fixes, reuse and recycling, sharing.....all good stuff to do.....all in the same boat, with friends and enjoying yourself without having to pay big bucks.....note the time and look out for the yellow reduced stickers, learn to cook, share best practices, do not buy £3 fancy coffee and make your own lunch, walk to places, share transport, take a bus.......no gain without some pain, which turns out to not be painful at all......a learning curve that will set you up for life.?

Edited June 14, 2019 by winkie

[Pebbles]

15 minutes ago, longgone said:

best off buying a place outright in the end and having no "view-able" savings  pension credit kicks in. ?

 Indeed keep gold (hidden of course) pensions cannot be touched by means testing. I plan my savings around the benefits system. I would even prioritize improving my own house (extending if it makes sense) or buying woodland over holding savings in cash.

[winkie]

1 minute ago, Pebbles said:

 Indeed keep gold (hidden of course) pensions cannot be touched by means testing. I plan my savings around the benefits system. I would even prioritize improving my own house (extending if it makes sense) or buying woodland over holding savings in cash.

Rich people buy woodland a special tax perk for those in the know.?

[Dorkins]

2 hours ago, Pebbles said:

Maybe but holding large amounts of cash (i.e. saving in cash or selling to rent) will screw you over on means tested benefits like universal credit if unemployed.

If you live with somebody who works you will get naff all means tested benefits anyway.

[PropertyMania]

On 13/06/2019 at 00:14, Dorkins said:

Renting with 2 small children. We like the house and the area, no hurry to move for at least a couple more years. When I was younger I treated rentals as rentals, now I treat them as home by buying suitable furniture and optimising the layout etc, furniture is dirt cheap second hand and making active choices like this is good for sanity. I wouldn't be keen to rent another furnished place again, I like the freedom of owning all the furniture and not having to worry about keeping it nice. 

Guy who's buying property because he wants to paint the door should read this. If you like DIY projects, just build furniture, or anything that isn't attached to the ground that you can take with you, sell etc. I think a lot of this whole "renting is just the worst" thing is imagined psychological stuff, remnants from our caveman days. Also, owning gives a false sense of security a lot of the time. Rents are actually very stable and haven't risen anything like house prices. Just because you buy food, doesn't mean you need to own shares in Tesco. 

[PropertyMania]

4 hours ago, Pebbles said:

 Indeed keep gold (hidden of course) pensions cannot be touched by means testing. I plan my savings around the benefits system. I would even prioritize improving my own house (extending if it makes sense) or buying woodland over holding savings in cash.

Hilarious, but why wouldn't you? What a crazy system we have created

Edited June 14, 2019 by PropertyMania

[bushblairandbrown]

21 hours ago, Glental said:

It was just a mental shift for me. I was gearing up to buy in the SE before I lost my job. It made me question the crazy hours I had been putting in (and if getting a huge mortgage was a good idea). 

I was earning around national average wage in London, I'm earning similarly now but work less and have lower living costs. My wife is happy because her family are nearby.

In time I think my earning potential would have been much higher in London so it does feel like a bit of a gamble. It's done now though and I doubt I can afford to go back!

It strikes me as ironic that you say you work to live now like it's a bad thing. Sounds like you used to work and not have time or be able to afford to live. Working to live by comparison sounds idyllic. 

[Dorkins]

50 minutes ago, PropertyMania said:

Guy who's buying property because he wants to paint the door should read this. If you like DIY projects, just build furniture, or anything that isn't attached to the ground that you can take with you, sell etc. I think a lot of this whole "renting is just the worst" thing is imagined psychological stuff, remnants from our caveman days. Also, owning gives a false sense of security a lot of the time. Rents are actually very stable and haven't risen anything like house prices. Just because you buy food, doesn't mean you need to own shares in Tesco. 

We "joke" about how on Homes Under the Hammer the landlord does a crap magnolia paint job on his new property and the presenter says "good enough for rental" but many private tenants take this attitude too about their own home. As you say, it is imagined psychological stuff which holds people back. It helps to have a bit of spare cash now which I didn't have when I was in my early-mid 20s so I can do these 2 or low 3 figure DIY projects without feeling the pinch. I plumbed in a dishwasher, bought a bigger fridge than the landlord's tiny one, turned one of the fitted wardrobes into a drying cupboard by running an extension cord in there to power a dehumidifier and used some chinning bars to hang clothes and sheets from, I put up shelves in alcoves using chinning bars to hold them up, I made a cover for the pond to stop small children falling in, I put a portable hot tub in the garden, I replaced the toilet seat with one that has both big and small holes so my children can sit on it, I even *gasp* painted the landlord's walls in my son's bedroom because the old paint was vomit green and covered with scratches and I don't want my child looking at that every day. It is possible to make a rental a home.

All we need now is for S21 to go and private renting will become decent enough to live in until the (in my opinion, inevitable) HPC comes.

Edited June 14, 2019 by Dorkins

[Arpeggio]

23 hours ago, Glental said:

It was just a mental shift for me. I was gearing up to buy in the SE before I lost my job. It made me question the crazy hours I had been putting in (and if getting a huge mortgage was a good idea). 

I was earning around national average wage in London, I'm earning similarly now but work less and have lower living costs. My wife is happy because her family are nearby.

In time I think my earning potential would have been much higher in London so it does feel like a bit of a gamble. It's done now though and I doubt I can afford to go back!

Yes don't think you'd want to be in London on national average wage. A place where people sell their Right to Buy council house for 14 million to someone who wants to launder their money. Definitely go somewhere that has a more work based economy rather than spiv based economy where you money goes further. I'd do the same.

9 hours ago, Sausage said:

My wife and I considering a move away from SE. East Anglia near the coast is one option... Any recommendations?

I've not done it myself but I did I like the idea of either Wales or Scotland partly due to their different attitudes towards housing, such as stopping selling off council housing.

[Glental]

12 hours ago, bushblairandbrown said:

It strikes me as ironic that you say you work to live now like it's a bad thing. Sounds like you used to work and not have time or be able to afford to live. Working to live by comparison sounds idyllic. 

I completely agree. It has been a shift in thinking though.

I thought if I put everything into my work during my 20s that there would be a big reward later. I'm not doing badly but the big money / success just didn't happen.