Gigantic Purple Slug Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 8 minutes ago, onlooker said: Can you give a link? https://www.economist.com/business/a-lack-of-chargers-could-stall-the-electric-vehicle-revolution/21806663 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyh Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 26 minutes ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said: Interesting article in the Economist this week if you can get behind the paywall on the investment requirement in order to establish a charging network if sufficient EVs take to the roads. Needless to say they are huge. Hence my fear and anger at Tesla starting to open up the Supercharger network to all, Holland trials, now Norway trials. I will be fighting Tooth and Nail to keep Tesla UK supercharger Network ONLT for Tesla's, it's a big factor for buying one of their cars. With the rest of the UK charging Network as "backup" the Tesla experience in the UK is good for long distance travel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2buyornot2buy Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 1 hour ago, markyh said: With the rest of the UK charging Network as "backup" the Tesla experience in the UK is good for long distance travel. GB. NI tesla charging network is nonexistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said: Interesting article in the Economist this week if you can get behind the paywall on the investment requirement in order to establish a charging network if sufficient EVs take to the roads. Needless to say they are huge. Huge but I doubt correct, the article seems to be written by someone with no experience of running an EV. The quoted cost is probably just more FUD based on installing millions of expensive high speed public chargers. The reality is that EV owners rarely use them, preferring the far cheaper option of filling up overnight at home. For most people all they need is overnight access to a 13Amp plug. 2 hours ago, onlooker said: I can understand the Gridwatch graphs, just like you obviously can't. There is more than enough green electricity to power all the EV's in use. If I decide to charge my car at a time when there is a lack of renewable power that will be balanced out when green power is displacing gas. the electricity price is still dictated by the gas price and at current levels the renewable providers are making huge profits. This is a good thing as it will speed the transition away from expensive fossil fuels. 2 hours ago, onlooker said: If you think any Govt cares about keeping old people warm and alive, as soon as they start dying, policy will be rapidly changed. Short of moving them all compulsorily into sealed insulated boxes, they are going to need cheap energy. As are poor young families. They won't be getting cheap energy from fossil fuels next year will they? Even our almost untaxed gas/electricity will soon be too expensive for many. The choice is should we properly insulate houses or get used to paying double or triple the current bills. Either way it is going to cost the government a fortune in subsidies. NB modern insulated houses are not sealed boxes they actually have far more ventilation. 2 hours ago, onlooker said: The Govt makes a huge tax profit on fossil fuels, which it doesn't make on electricity. Who is going to cover the shortfall? There is no profit, the costs for the harm done by air pollution are real latest government estimate is £22bn a year State of the environment: health, people and the environment - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigantic Purple Slug Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 40 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: Huge but I doubt correct, the article seems to be written by someone with no experience of running an EV. The quoted cost is probably just more FUD based on installing millions of expensive high speed public chargers. The reality is that EV owners rarely use them, preferring the far cheaper option of filling up overnight at home. For most people all they need is overnight access to a 13Amp plug. There is more than enough green electricity to power all the EV's in use. If I decide to charge my car at a time when there is a lack of renewable power that will be balanced out when green power is displacing gas. the electricity price is still dictated by the gas price and at current levels the renewable providers are making huge profits. This is a good thing as it will speed the transition away from expensive fossil fuels. They won't be getting cheap energy from fossil fuels next year will they? Even our almost untaxed gas/electricity will soon be too expensive for many. The choice is should we properly insulate houses or get used to paying double or triple the current bills. Either way it is going to cost the government a fortune in subsidies. NB modern insulated houses are not sealed boxes they actually have far more ventilation. There is no profit, the costs for the harm done by air pollution are real latest government estimate is £22bn a year State of the environment: health, people and the environment - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk) Not sure what running an EV has got to do with having the ability and knowledge to analyse the industry at a macro scale. I think the quality of journalism there is pretty good, even if the technical detail in the articles is often lacking. The site as a whole seems relatively pro renewable energy, without wanting to cover up the issues implementing many of the policies. Maybe you have better sources/figures. I think EVs are here to stay irrespective of the issues that may be presented. However, that doesn't mean that the transistion isn't going to be expensive and cause some hiccups in implementation. Someone is going to have to bear the cost of implementation and lack of fuel duty at some stage. And that someone is almost certainly going to be EV users. The government to me currently appears to be waiting for the critical mass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said: Not sure what running an EV has got to do with having the ability and knowledge to analyse the industry at a macro scale. For a start you realise that range/charging anxiety is mainly something non EV owners worry about and that 95% of your charging is done from home. The article didn't provide details of the assumptions that were underpinning the cost calculations. 2 hours ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said: I think EVs are here to stay irrespective of the issues that may be presented. However, that doesn't mean that the transistion isn't going to be expensive and cause some hiccups in implementation. Within a few years EVs will be cheaper to buy than ICE's and far cheaper to run. Take a long term view and transitioning will be cheaper than trying to continue with the status quo. 2 hours ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said: Someone is going to have to bear the cost of implementation and lack of fuel duty at some stage. And that someone is almost certainly going to be EV users. The government to me currently appears to be waiting for the critical mass. I think it is inevitable that the shortfall will be made up by road/congestion charging and, because the transition to EVs will happen far faster than most people are expecting, it will be implemented sooner rather later. Of course it will be in addition to fuel duty not a replacement for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 On 08/12/2021 at 16:11, Confusion of VIs said: But you will presumably want to close your position at some point and with Musk selling, the Berlin delay, SEC investigation and a couple of whistle blowers (and rumours about the China plant unable to ramp up because of chip shortages). Now is probably a good time. I'll wait until tesla crashes, you should keep buying tesla share for the time they have 200% of the world market and persuade the third world to buy $50k cars. BTW you sell shares, not close the position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freki Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 Great article about how uninformed people are quoted, then the journos don't do their job, and then the populace embrace their bias by cherry picking something "from the internet", "DYOR"... Relevant to this thread and so many more. Quote How a myth about London bike lanes and congestion took off Analysis: delving into news stories linking congestion with cycle lanes shows how troubling myths can escape into the wild Quote What can we do? Not much, I supposed, except simply, and yet again, observe the depressing and slippery slope from press release to news story to unkillable myth when it comes to cycling stories. I’d like to think some people would learn lessons from this debacle. But I’m not exactly confident. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2021/dec/13/how-a-myth-about-london-bike-lanes-and-congestion-took-flight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyh Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 3 hours ago, Freki said: Great article about how uninformed people are quoted, then the journos don't do their job, and then the populace embrace their bias by cherry picking something "from the internet", "DYOR"... Relevant to this thread and so many more. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2021/dec/13/how-a-myth-about-london-bike-lanes-and-congestion-took-flight A bit like the Myth "All Tesla's are terrible build quality" . Had out Madein China Model 3 for a week now, spent a whole hour looking round it following all the previous YouTube slueths checklists for faults. Couldn't find a thing wrong or missing, still cant. But ask you average man in the steet with zero actual experience of own a Tesla ( @Peter Hun) and all Tesla's having poor build quality is gospel , because they had issue in USA built cars a few years back and a guy in the pub said so. I have now owned BMW and Tesla cars from brand new in the last 4 years and Tesla is just as well built as a BMW , imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 Lying bullsheeter. These Tesla models have a glaring reliability problem The words Tesla and reliability don’t exactly go hand in hand. In fact, according to Consumer Reports, you shouldn’t expect most Tesla models to be that reliable https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.motorbiscuit.com/teslas-reliability-ratings-are-pretty-concerning-but-does-anyone-actually-care/%3famp Consumer Reports Still Ranks Tesla Reliability 27th Out Of 28 This in spite of the fact that Tesla dominates in CR’s satisfaction ratings. https://www.google.com/amp/s/insideevs.com/news/549130/consumerreports-tesla-reliability-poor-2021/amp/ Tesla Reliability Sinks In Consumer Reports Annual Study https://www.forbes.com/sites/edgarsten/2020/11/19/tesla-reliability-sinks-in-consumer-reports-annual-survey/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 This Tesla Plaid Owner Calls The Build Quality Trash, Do You Agree? Most of us are familiar with Tesla's build quality issues. This has been debated for a number of years. https://www.google.com/amp/s/insideevs.com/news/535014/tesla-models-plaid-build-quality/amp/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted December 15, 2021 Share Posted December 15, 2021 18 hours ago, Peter Hun said: This Tesla Plaid Owner Calls The Build Quality Trash, Do You Agree? Most of us are familiar with Tesla's build quality issues. This has been debated for a number of years. https://www.google.com/amp/s/insideevs.com/news/535014/tesla-models-plaid-build-quality/amp/ 🤣🤣🤣 Do you really think anyone buying a Plaid is going to care about these trivial issues (less than I had with my BMW M5). If it really upsets them instead of paying £100k or the Tesla they could always buy a £2m Bugatti, it's almost as quick getting up to 150mph. NB have you still got your short position? Musk is 80% through his $18bn share sale, he has to be done by Jan 10th. This is probably a good time to get out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saving For a Space Ship Posted December 15, 2021 Share Posted December 15, 2021 Second-hand car prices jump 27% in a year Second-hand car prices increased by 3.1% in November, and have jumped by over 27% in the last year. Indeed, prices of used cars have surged by 31.3% since April, when last winter’s lockdown began to ease, as this chart shows: https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2021/dec/15/uk-inflation-soars-cost-of-living-squeeze-energy-housing-clothing-footwear-federal-reserve-business-live Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted December 15, 2021 Share Posted December 15, 2021 9 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: 🤣🤣🤣 Do you really think anyone buying a Plaid is going to care about these trivial issues (less than I had with my BMW M5). If it really upsets them instead of paying £100k or the Tesla they could always buy a £2m Bugatti, it's almost as quick getting up to 150mph. NB have you still got your short position? Musk is 80% through his $18bn share sale, he has to be done by Jan 10th. This is probably a good time to get out. Do you think anyone looking to buy a EV is going to care about the plaid? My short share in Tesla will stay in my pension for as long as it takes. Up 20% since my top up so looking good. Musk dumping his shares at the top of the market is an obvious sign he knows where it's going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonguest Posted December 15, 2021 Share Posted December 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Peter Hun said: Do you think anyone looking to buy a EV is going to care about the plaid? My short share in Tesla will stay in my pension for as long as it takes. Up 20% since my top up so looking good. Musk dumping his shares at the top of the market is an obvious sign he knows where it's going. 'short share'? I presume you mean 'short selling'? Can you do that in a pension plan? To buy shares, sure. But to do short sales? Or....are you speaking figuratively? and you are referring to something like a spreadbet position you have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted December 15, 2021 Share Posted December 15, 2021 This https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/l/leverage-shares-plc-1x-tesla-etp-gbp/share-charts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonguest Posted December 15, 2021 Share Posted December 15, 2021 3 minutes ago, Peter Hun said: This https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/l/leverage-shares-plc-1x-tesla-etp-gbp/share-charts Thanks! So, to be absolutely clear, is this an actual personal proper short sale of Tesla stock? OR, instead just some financial 'instrument' to achieve the same result? IF it's an instrument how closely does it reflect the actual movement of the Telsa share price? And, presumably, there are other similar instruments that apply to other popular companies? The ability to 'short' the stock of a given compnay will depend on IF there is such an instrument offered by the brokers (Hargreaves in this instance). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyh Posted December 15, 2021 Share Posted December 15, 2021 34 minutes ago, Peter Hun said: This https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/l/leverage-shares-plc-1x-tesla-etp-gbp/share-charts There is not a single timeframe from 1 day to 3 years that this shares chart does not look awful. You should jump out now and buy Tesla shares before you lose all your money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted December 15, 2021 Share Posted December 15, 2021 3 hours ago, Peter Hun said: Do you think anyone looking to buy a EV is going to care about the plaid? People who want a performance car will, there are other options for those who don't. 3 hours ago, Peter Hun said: My short share in Tesla will stay in my pension for as long as it takes. Up 20% since my top up so looking good. Tesla's disruption of the car industry is only just getting started, that chart will continue forward in pretty much the same way. 3 hours ago, Peter Hun said: Musk dumping his shares at the top of the market is an obvious sign he knows where it's going. Musk is actually increasing his holding. Apart from a few $bn pocket money, the proceeds of the sale are being used to pay the $10-15bn tax bill arising from him exercising his options to buy more Tesla shares. Now is a chance to get out while he is selling and happy to drive down the price; as Tesla is doesn't need to raise any more money and it minimises his tax bill. It's odd that you are shorting a stock you seem to know so little about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunketh Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 On 13/12/2021 at 15:57, markyh said: A bit like the Myth "All Tesla's are terrible build quality" . Had out Madein China Model 3 for a week now, spent a whole hour looking round it following all the previous YouTube slueths checklists for faults. Couldn't find a thing wrong or missing, still cant. But ask you average man in the steet with zero actual experience of own a Tesla ( @Peter Hun) and all Tesla's having poor build quality is gospel , because they had issue in USA built cars a few years back and a guy in the pub said so. I have now owned BMW and Tesla cars from brand new in the last 4 years and Tesla is just as well built as a BMW , imho. The build quality issues have largely been solved now, but the media keep bashing away. as has been posted before, Tesla have a massive lead over their competitors and it’s getting wider. im still on the fence myself between a model 3 LR and an EV6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyh Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 44 minutes ago, Chunketh said: The build quality issues have largely been solved now, but the media keep bashing away. as has been posted before, Tesla have a massive lead over their competitors and it’s getting wider. im still on the fence myself between a model 3 LR and an EV6. EV6 is a good car. To me it would always come down to speed as VFM , TM3 LR 0-60 is 4.2 seconds, pay quick £1k on the app, and power boost , now 0-60 is 3.7 seconds, only .6 behind the TM3 Performance. Tesla M3 LR is the ultimate "stealth car". EV6 cant get close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 19 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: People who want a performance car will, there are other options for those who don't. Tesla's disruption of the car industry is only just getting started, that chart will continue forward in pretty much the same way. Musk is actually increasing his holding. Apart from a few $bn pocket money, the proceeds of the sale are being used to pay the $10-15bn tax bill arising from him exercising his options to buy more Tesla shares. Now is a chance to get out while he is selling and happy to drive down the price; as Tesla is doesn't need to raise any more money and it minimises his tax bill. It's odd that you are shorting a stock you seem to know so little about. He sold $15bn to cover the tax bill. Rightly oh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Peter Hun said: He sold $15bn to cover the tax bill. Rightly oh. Yes a $15bn tax bill (tax becoming payable when he exercises options that would otherwise expire this year) this is not a secret and a good buying opportunity. I picked up some more shares yesterday when his latest sale pushed the price below $950. Elon Musk faces a $15 billion tax bill, which is likely the real reason he's selling stock (cnbc.com) After the sales are complete and his expiring options exercised he will hold millions more Tesla shares than he started with. I really am surprised that anyone invests in or shorts a stock they know so little about. What happens to your leveraged short when Tesla passes say $1,500 as it soon will, will you be paying margin calls. Edited December 16, 2021 by Confusion of VIs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 14 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: Yes a $15bn tax bill (tax becoming payable when he exercises options that would otherwise expire this year) this is not a secret and a good buying opportunity. I picked up some more shares yesterday when his latest sale pushed the price below $950. Elon Musk faces a $15 billion tax bill, which is likely the real reason he's selling stock (cnbc.com) After the sales are complete and his expiring options exercised he will hold millions more Tesla shares than he started with. I really am surprised that anyone invests in or shorts a stock they know so little about. What happens to your leveraged short when Tesla passes say $1,500 as it soon will, will you be paying margin calls. He pays tax at 37% so how does he end ip with more shares. Insteas of wittering on about my shares, go and read how it works at the link I gave you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 On 15/12/2021 at 14:04, markyh said: There is not a single timeframe from 1 day to 3 years that this shares chart does not look awful. You should jump out now and buy Tesla shares before you lose all your money. You seem to missed the basics of investing. History is no guide to the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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