Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[Locke]

1 hour ago, jonb2 said:

Oh, don't forget privatisation and asset stripping on steroids.

Oh the horror of people having control of their own wealth.

 

1 hour ago, jonb2 said:

Never mind - we had an empire once don't ya know? The sun never set on the British empire - except (accept) it doesn't now.

Britain has been living beyond its means for many years, based on government and corporate debt and exporting financial fraud.

The reality is, this will end at some point, voluntarily or no. I understand that taking a crack addict's coke away makes them very twitchy but it's that or die in the gutter.

[ccc]

And whilst we are on the Trump thing. Let's compare and contrast the media coverage of poster boy Trudeau's alleged sexual shenanigans compared to Trump. Incredible. 

https://edition-m.cnn.com/2018/07/06/americas/justin-trudeau-groping-allegations/index.html

[WageWar]

43 minutes ago, ccc said:

See when you vote in a general election. Or a local election. Or in fact anything similar. Are you provided with a 4,567 document in the ballot box to peruse over for 37 days before deciding what box to tick ?

I'm utterly lost with some folk on here. 

When you vote a party into government you get a manifesto. But this was a referendum. I didn't vote for Vote Leave or any of the Brexit or Remainer campaigns. Therefore all of their views are irrelevant. I voted on the question on the ballot paper alone. 

[Confusion of VIs]

37 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

Trump doesn't have any leadership skills. He just blunders ahead trying to do whatever he wants irrespective of what everyone else thinks, and quite frequently gets brought up short because of it. If he had good leadership ability he'd be able to get enough people to go along with him, and know when he's not going to get anywhere. Trump has an even weaker grasp of what negotiation is than Barnier. What you need is someone who can command respect. May isn't that, Barnier isn't that, and Trump certainly isn't either.

I don't know why you have such a low opinion of Barnier. He was never there to negotiate with us, his job was to ensure that we followed the leaving process set out by the EU and he seems to have done just that.

Your complaining about his inflexibility misses the point the A50 process was deliberately intended to ensure that the leaving party was a supplicant, again he seems to have done his job.

 

[pig]

3 minutes ago, Kosmin said:

Trump campaigned on building a wall (in fact a wall already existed, but he had a plan to make it harder to cross the border) and making Mexico pay for it. He has definitely failed to get Mexico to pay for it. They have flatly refused. I think some work has started on "the wall" but this is in fact maintenance of the existing wall. I think he hasn't been able to persuade Congress to fund his wall (correct me if I'm wrong) which is fair enough as he insists he can make Mexico pay.

If he can get nukes out of Korea that will be a great achievement, so we'll have to see about this. But has he achieved anything yet?

Trump should take lessons from May - an appalling leader herself - on leadership. In exchange he can give her lessons on campaigning!

On Korea I get the feeling China is pulling all the strings.

Trump is like a mad boxer - all piss and wind and occasionally lands a mad lucky punch where  a seasoned pro calmly keeps his cool before decking him.

[Locke]

17 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

How are you missing the point here? You're telling us the brexit vote was 100% clear what it meant. The director for the official leave campaign is telling us they intentionally left it vague in order to win.

One of you is lying.... 

 

Seems quite clear to me. I would have put "Should the government invoke Article 50 or not?", but as it is, arguing that "people didn't understand" just makes you look an idiot.

[rollover]

Quote

Calls for Boris Johnson to 'save Brexit' SKY

I thought it was new brexit secretary's job.

 

[HairyOb1]

29 minutes ago, ccc said:

Of course he's not perfect - I don't think anyone would argue that. Apart from him maybe. 

But he's said he will do things and then sat there and signed it and said here you go I am doing what I said I would. 

Compare and contrast to May. 

I disagree. I think he's a great leader. The election result speaks for itself. You don't go from being a 100-1 no hope joke to actually winning the thing by having no leadership skills. 

There's only so far luck and arrogance can take you. 

The NHS bus was a question and a proposal. Not a promise. 

Anyway - you get the point. We voted to leave. How that happens is up to the government - but we need to have actually left at the end of the process for the voters wishes to have been acted upon. Basic democracy. 

He is a bit mad. But I find him brilliant in these days of seasoned identikit politicians. 

I voted to leave the EU. We - the UK - voted to leave the EU. 

Its pretty simple. 

But leaving the EU isn't leaving Euratom, or we didn't know, or the common flying area.  It didn't say if we'd leave EFTA, or the EEA, and there had to be court cases to confirm it.  There is utterly no way you knew about this.  Leaving the EU is not leaving the EEA, or EFTA.

You're utterly bullshitting to say you know all of this would come as a direct result of leaving the EU.  You didn't know, as even the politicians didn't either.

I've long had this argument with you, a promise doesn't have to come complete with a signature.  You know this.

 

[Locke]

4 minutes ago, pig said:

On Korea I get the feeling China is pulling all the strings.

Trump is like a mad boxer - all piss and wind and occasionally lands a mad lucky punch where  a seasoned pro calmly keeps his cool before decking him.

Trump has named his animus from the beginning- "America First". Everything he has done is utterly consistent with that.

At this point, if someone doesn't understand what he is doing and can't predict what he will do, they are either willfully ignorant or mentally incapable.

[dugsbody]

3 minutes ago, Locke said:

 

Seems quite clear to me. I would have put "Should the government invoke Article 50 or not?", but as it is, arguing that "people didn't understand" just makes you look an idiot.

Indeed. So under Theresa May's latest plan, the crystal clarity of that form above will have been met.

Oh, and according to ccc and Locke, of the internet, the director of the official leave campaign, Dominic Cummings is lying about how he chose to run the campaign.

And I'm the one who looks like an idiot? 

 

[HairyOb1]

1 minute ago, dugsbody said:

Indeed. So under Theresa May's latest plan, the crystal clarity of that form above will have been met.

Oh, and according to ccc and Locke, of the internet, the director of the official leave campaign, Dominic Cummings is lying about how he chose to run the campaign.

And I'm the one who looks like an idiot? 

 

Can you like posts on here?

[Locke]

7 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

Dominic Cummings is lying about how he chose to run the campaign.

Who gives a flying ******? Voters had to chose a binary option on a very simple question. Whether or not the Leave campaign "cheated" "lied" or whatever shite you wish to fling is utterly irrelevant.

9 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

And I'm the one who looks like an idiot? 

Yes.

7 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said:

Can you like posts on here?

Try Facebook or Reddit.

[HairyOb1]

2 minutes ago, Locke said:

Who gives a flying ******? Voters had to chose a binary option on a very simple question. Whether or not the Leave campaign "cheated" "lied" or whatever shite you wish to fling is utterly irrelevant.

Yes.

Said the true patriot...

No, it is you.

[Locke]

2 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said:

No, it is you.

See the last line of my previous response.

[dugsbody]

1 minute ago, Locke said:

Who gives a flying ******? Voters had to chose a binary option on a very simple question. Whether or not the Leave campaign "cheated" "lied" or whatever shite you wish to fling is utterly irrelevant.

You've avoid answering but I take it since Theresa May's latest proposal meets the crystal clear requirement on the form to "leave the EU" that everyone is ok with it.

 

[Riedquat]

34 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

I don't know why you have such a low opinion of Barnier. He was never there to negotiate with us, his job was to ensure that we followed the leaving process set out by the EU and he seems to have done just that.

Your complaining about his inflexibility misses the point the A50 process was deliberately intended to ensure that the leaving party was a supplicant, again he seems to have done his job.

Although I checked this on Wikipedia so take with the usual pinch of salt the position the EU has appointed him to is "Chief Negotiator in charge of the Preparation and Conduct of the Negotiations with the United Kingdom under Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union." The capitals suggest it's an official title. So he's chief negotiator but never there to negotiate?

Edited July 9, 2018 by Riedquat

[pig]

16 minutes ago, Locke said:

Trump has named his animus from the beginning- "America First". Everything he has done is utterly consistent with that.

At this point, if someone doesn't understand what he is doing and can't predict what he will do, they are either willfully ignorant or mentally incapable.

It isn’t even consistent with itself lol. 

But Im agreeing really: can’t help  suspecting the Chinese have worked it out to their advantage.

[HairyOb1]

4 minutes ago, Locke said:

See the last line of my previous response.

Have an account with neither thanks.

But it is you, make no mistake.  The bed wetting, had this been the Remain camp winning with outside, foreign led, Russian intervention, subversion and money, would have been extreme.  

[rantnrave]

Looks like Carney and co have their latest excuse not to raise rates...

[Locke]

18 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

You've avoid answering but I take it since Theresa May's latest proposal meets the crystal clear requirement on the form to "leave the EU" that everyone is ok with it.

 

There was no question. I actually didn't voice an opinion on May's proposal, but yes, I think that technically it would.

Voters may not be happy that in spirit, we would still be in the EU, but I guess we will have to see how they react. In any case, when the Eu collapses it will at least be that much easier to disentangle ourselves.

[ccc]

57 minutes ago, WageWar said:

When you vote a party into government you get a manifesto. But this was a referendum. I didn't vote for Vote Leave or any of the Brexit or Remainer campaigns. Therefore all of their views are irrelevant. I voted on the question on the ballot paper alone. 

Exactly. We voted to leave. Let's leave. Again - it ain't rocket science. 

[ccc]

46 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said:

But leaving the EU isn't leaving Euratom, or we didn't know, or the common flying area.  It didn't say if we'd leave EFTA, or the EEA, and there had to be court cases to confirm it.  There is utterly no way you knew about this.  Leaving the EU is not leaving the EEA, or EFTA.

You're utterly bullshitting to say you know all of this would come as a direct result of leaving the EU.  You didn't know, as even the politicians didn't either.

I've long had this argument with you, a promise doesn't have to come complete with a signature.  You know this.

 

Are you actually saying the referendum should have had addendum 1-13577 stating this equals x and y equals z and we will leave EU directive 2.3456 but we won't leave EU directive 3.6788 etc.

Just so I am clear. If we had these thousands of pages of detail on the form you would be perfectly accepting of the result now ? 

Just to make it clear. 

[HairyOb1]

So, riddle me this. If people knew what they voted for, how comes Gove of the Leave campaign claims May’s fudge is what people voted for, while Farage of the Leave EU campaign claims it’s a betrayal. They can’t both be right, simultaneously, surely.

[pig]

32 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

Indeed. So under Theresa May's latest plan, the crystal clarity of that form above will have been met.

Oh, and according to ccc and Locke, of the internet, the director of the official leave campaign, Dominic Cummings is lying about how he chose to run the campaign.

And I'm the one who looks like an idiot? 

 

They’re not idiots they’re just ‘disingenuous’. It’s a like an emotional phobia to the EU they’re afflicted with which can be sustained making up new ‘facts’, believing them or parroting trolls.

Canon fodder for Leadsom, Rees-Mogg etc. The rest of us including pragmatic Leavers, probably best if we move on. 

Im kind of exhausted with TM’s hopelessness (and worse), but up till now she’s been held hostage by this large minority. Last Friday might have been the right move - however undeliverable and risky.

[pig]

Well there goes Boris