Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[Sheeple Splinter]

48 minutes ago, Sheeple Splinter said:

7 hours ago, HairyOb1 said:

7 hours ago, Sheeple Splinter said:

 

You said:

I am utterly sure you didn't make it up, but I am sure you've interpreted it in a way that suits your narrative.  It makes no sense at all, that if it is going to be all gravy, that the citizens of Grimsby and Cornwall are all up in arms about the post brexit effect on their areas as per fishing industry.  I don't make this up, it's a commonly known issue.

Still waiting for citizens of Grimsby and Cornwall protesting on the streets etc...

Nice obfuscation there SS - But it's true.  Just search for yourself buddy.

People are complaining, people are now worry, it's common knowledge....

As I said, only fake her is you mate  

 You need to look up the definition of obfuscation.

I challenged your fallacious assertion and none of the links you subsequently posted have anything to do with your "...citizens...up in arms..." nonsense. 

Ergo you did make it up and, by the way,  this sentence is the giveaway, i.e. "I don't make this up, it's a commonly known issue"  

Quote

Well it is commonly known issue, as I have shown from the links you asked me to provide.

You're really not good at this are you; let me ask you a couple of questions:

Are people in Cornwall worried about losing their EU subsidies?

Are people in Lincolnshire, and Grimsby, asking for a a different deal?

Can you deduce from this that people are worried, up in arms, well, that's a link for tomorrow buddy.

It's so very easy to make a brexiteer look a bit daft.

As I said, an obfuscation by using language to try and move the argument on from where it is - People in Cornwall and Lincolnshire are worried about their livelihoods post brexit and are looking to mitigate the risk by asking for special treatment.

Argue the toss out of that SS.

 

 More obfuscation.

The links are referring to organisations not citizens and there is the small matter of fishing too.

Quote

You said:

I am utterly sure you didn't make it up, but I am sure you've interpreted it in a way that suits your narrative.  It makes no sense at all, that if it is going to be all gravy, that the citizens of Grimsby and Cornwall are all up in arms about the post brexit effect on their areas as per fishing industry.  I don't make this up, it's a commonly known issue.

Nonsense, please provide a link referring to citizens, street march protest etc..... Otherwise:

Ot

[HairyOb1]

2 minutes ago, Sheeple Splinter said:

 More obfuscation.

The links are referring to organisations not citizens and there is the small matter of fishing too.

Nonsense, please provide a link referring to citizens, street march protest etc..... Otherwise:

Ot

 More obfuscation.

So everyone is happy, it's all gravy hey SS

Makes me laugh, fishermen, business, people, but no, fake news...

 

Edited November 23, 2017 by HairyOb1

[Sheeple Splinter]

4 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

A couple of months ago I would have thought that was impossible.

However, given Labour's inability to pull significantly ahead of a divided (permanently on the brink of imploding) Tory party that is making a complete pigs ear of Brexit and lacks any clear vision for the future, I now think it is possible that Corbyn has led Labor into an electoral dead end.   

Blair to the rescue... 

[Sheeple Splinter]

Just now, HairyOb1 said:

 More obfuscation.

So everyone is happy, it's all gravy hey SS

 

You could have just said it was your belief but hey-HO1. 

[HairyOb1]

Just now, Sheeple Splinter said:

You could have just said it was your belief but hey-HO1. 

Oh yes, of course, apart from the fact it was in all the msm.

and, you know, those pesky links 

 

[rollover]

7 hours ago, ExiledMatty said:

Only a problem for the tax dodging companies and people that live there. 

 Really big problem because Remain has taken 96 per cent of the vote in the EU referendum in Gibraltar. Also Spain waves Gibraltar card in Brexit talks and wants to settle Rock’s status before trade deal.

[IMHAL]

9 hours ago, rollover said:

Gibralta headed for sharp exit

Another Brexit problem on the horizon.

Gibralta" headed for the rocks".

As the drip drip drip of bad news facts emerge Brexit is slowly but surely turning indefencible.

In other news Brexit = A Clapped Out Banger

I'm not much of a labourite but I do like Chucka Umunna - well done for calling a spade a spade.

I am going to make a prediction - Brexit will start unravelling by January. Behind the scenes the politocos will start to address the thorny question of 'how do we back out of this and save face, as a political party and as a nation"

[dryrot]

18 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

According to the OBR growth figures released today  Project fear has arrived and is panning out pretty much as forecast.

Experts eh? going around making mad forecasts that turn out to be correct.  

Please give a link. In the real world: https://www.ft.com/content/eb353ce0-beec-11e7-9836-b25f8adaa111 

"Employment growth in Britain’s manufacturing sector reached its highest level in more than three years in October, according to the latest survey of purchasing managers working in the industry. The sector expanded at a much faster rate than expected, leading to the 15th successive month of job creation in the industry."
(Please go to link for full article, as its (c) FT)

[Confusion of VIs]

35 minutes ago, dryrot said:

Please give a link. In the real world: https://www.ft.com/content/eb353ce0-beec-11e7-9836-b25f8adaa111 

"Employment growth in Britain’s manufacturing sector reached its highest level in more than three years in October, according to the latest survey of purchasing managers working in the industry. The sector expanded at a much faster rate than expected, leading to the 15th successive month of job creation in the industry."
(Please go to link for full article, as its (c) FT)

You need to compare forecasts pre July 16 with the current OBR figures the difference between the two is pretty much the low end of the drop in GDP predicted by the Treasury (remember the current OBR report still assumes a soft/amicable Brexit). It's all further up in the thread. 

Re your link, the OBR's figures cover the whole economy, if one part is doing better than the average something else is doing worse.   

[HairyOb1]

So Brexit hey. £700m spent already, another £3bn announced yesterday. That’s in addition to £2.1bn for extra civil service resource. £5.8bn so far.

And lets not forget the loss of the 2 EU institutions to Amsterdam and Paris....

[thecrashingisles]

11 hours ago, knock out johnny said:

The NI border is the woolly mammoth in the room. 

I've not heard a single practicable solution other than "imagination"

The solution the government was hoping for doesn't look like it will happen, namely that Ireland would be so desperate for a good trade deal that they'd swallow whatever weak assurances the UK came up with.

[rollover]

Alex Salmond criticise Brexiters on RT

 

Quote

 

UK facing ‘total humiliation’ over Brexit

The former first minister interviewed former Labour spin doctor Alastair Campbell. Mr Campbell launched a scathing attack on the Government’s Brexit negotiations and called on Theresa May to “show real leadership”. He added: “We are in such chaos, such a mess. “I’ve never seen such a shambles.” Mr Campbell also hit out at current Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn who he claimed has “given up talking about Brexit”.

Tony Blair’s former spin doctor said that people who had voted for Brexit were “entitled to change their mind” and that the UK was “voting for our own decline”, Mr Salmond ended the programme by having his say on Brexit, saying Britain was “facing total humiliation”. scotsman

 

 

[knock out johnny]

12 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

The solution the government was hoping for doesn't look like it will happen, namely that Ireland would be so desperate for a good trade deal that they'd swallow whatever weak assurances the UK came up with.

We've really have been sold a pack of fcking lies

Ireland can veto any proposal, but can't accept any proposal - the 27 have to agree unanimously

 

[jonb2]

Thursday's Brexit daily

Another loss - good we don't want any interference form the rest of the world after Brexit

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-european-capital-of-culture-uk-cancelled-leeds-eu-banned-a8071261.html

 

Brexit, such a good thing. All those trade deals - Hoorah!

http://uk.businessinsider.com/budget-2017-obr-cuts-growth-forecasts-up-to-2022-2017-11

http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/22/news/economy/uk-france-biggest-economies-in-the-world/index.html

 

The Tories and their corporate masters don't want to spend a penny on training

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/autumn-budget-2017-november-computer-science-technology-employment

 

Meanwhile - for the pigs - it's business as usual

https://www.fundstrategy.co.uk/government-refuses-obr-information-brexit/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-living-standards-fall-longest-60-years-records-began-economy-household-incomes-costs-energy-a8071146.html

 

Again, they don't want you to know anything bad

https://www.fundstrategy.co.uk/government-refuses-obr-information-brexit/

 

Who said living, working and moving in the EU will not be harder after Brexit?

https://www.thelocal.fr/20171121/brits-seeking-residency-permits-in-france-told-to-come-back-after-brexit

 

The EU is the enemy, not the Tories, not the corportocracy

http://www.welfareweekly.com/13-things-the-eu-gave-the-uk-which-we-now-take-for-granted/

 

One good thing - retail is fecked - except for the non-tax-paying Amazon

https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/articles/2017-11-23/black-friday-is-eating-itself-even-in-britain

 

Meanwhile - it's always the EU's fault

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/theresa-vowed-protect-police-funding-11562486

 

Sigh - I'm with this guy :-)

 

 

I BLAME THE EU!!!

 

 

Edited November 23, 2017 by jonb2

[kzb]

2 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

You need to compare forecasts pre July 16 with the current OBR figures the difference between the two is pretty much the low end of the drop in GDP predicted by the Treasury (remember the current OBR report still assumes a soft/amicable Brexit). It's all further up in the thread. 

Re your link, the OBR's figures cover the whole economy, if one part is doing better than the average something else is doing worse.   

BUT we are told the growth forecast downgrades are because they are now factoring in the poor GDP/capita growth.

This GDP/head growth has been poor since about 2007 (ie long before Brexit was thought of), but they have doggedly persisted with the previous trend in previous forecasts.  Now, all of a sudden, they are getting all realistic with it.  But really they could have used more realistic GDP/head growth figures in forecasts for the last many years -but they didn't.

Even the BBC Newsnight team went along with this explanation last night.

[rollover]

Quote

 

The Labour leader finally grasps what leaving the EU really means

 Jeremy Corbyn for the first time turned all guns on the prime minister over her incoherent, incomprehensible and impossible Brexit stance. He used all his prime minister’s questions, every one, to wallop her exactly where she and her party are most vulnerable – and not before time. If ever there was an open goal, it is the warring party of government whose 40-year, demented obsession with the EU is finally driving us all to destruction.

Here’s his best tirade: “Seventeen months after the referendum they say there can be no hard border but haven’t worked out how. They say they’ll protect workers rights then vote against it. They say they’ll protect environmental rights then vote against it. They promise action on tax avoidance but vote against it time and time again.”

The prime minister’s lame response was, “Let me tell him, I am optimistic about our future. I’m optimistic about the success we can make of Brexit …” Guardian

 

Prime Minister's Questions: 22 November 2017

[Confusion of VIs]

18 minutes ago, kzb said:

BUT we are told the growth forecast downgrades are because they are now factoring in the poor GDP/capita growth.

This GDP/head growth has been poor since about 2007 (ie long before Brexit was thought of), but they have doggedly persisted with the previous trend in previous forecasts.  Now, all of a sudden, they are getting all realistic with it.  But really they could have used more realistic GDP/head growth figures in forecasts for the last many years -but they didn't.

Even the BBC Newsnight team went along with this explanation last night.

So the biggest ever downgrade since 1812 was just another co-incidence, like the £ dropping 10% within 5 minutes of the Sunderland vote coming through. Strange that it tied in with the Treasury (project fear)  forecast, another co-incidence.

Yesterday the BBC seemed desperate not to mention Brexit as a factor in anything, I wonder why.

This morning it was confirmed that it's official we are now poorer than the French, despite being significantly richer and pulling away from them at the start of 2016, yet another co-incidence. 

 

  

 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

This morning it was confirmed that it's official we are now poorer than the French, despite being significantly richer and pulling away from them at the start of 2016, yet another co-incidence. 

There are a few parts of the relevant CNN article that point to it being partly coincidence - although the sterling revaluation must have had an effect:

"This year will be the first time since 2013 that France has topped the U.K. in the ranking, according to the IMF." - We were solidly in the EU in 2013

"The U.K. is expected to slide further. India is forecast to power past both Britain and France in 2019." - India isn't in the EU!

 

[kzb]

37 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

So the biggest ever downgrade since 1812 was just another co-incidence, like the £ dropping 10% within 5 minutes of the Sunderland vote coming through. Strange that it tied in with the Treasury (project fear)  forecast, another co-incidence.

Yesterday the BBC seemed desperate not to mention Brexit as a factor in anything, I wonder why.

This morning it was confirmed that it's official we are now poorer than the French, despite being significantly richer and pulling away from them at the start of 2016, yet another co-incidence. 

 

No I didn't say it was a coincidence.  It's the opposite of a coincidence. 

For the first time since 2007 they have used post-2007 GDP/head growth rate in the forecast.  This is not a coincidence, it's an intentional act.

The forecast GDP figures for 2017 puts UK slightly behind France this is true but it's not the first time and it is just a forecast.

OECD figures for 2016 foreign inward investment (versus 2015 in brackets):

UK = $253,799m  (+669%)

EU = $552,031m  (+14%) (figure presumably includes UK)

[jonb2]

2 hours ago, knock out johnny said:

We've really have been sold a pack of fcking lies

Ireland can veto any proposal, but can't accept any proposal - the 27 have to agree unanimously

 

Yep Johnny, and feck the remainers in the North - mind you, our belittled army needs some new training - nothing like a return to the troubles for that

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/nov/22/how-brexit-looms-over-the-irish-border-its-the-berlin-wall-approaching-us

[knock out johnny]

9 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

Yep Johnny, and feck the remainers in the North - mind you, our belittled army needs some new training - nothing like a return to the troubles for that

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/nov/22/how-brexit-looms-over-the-irish-border-its-the-berlin-wall-approaching-us

They'll make good canon fodder when they've lost their jobs in the car plants - now that really is Empire 2.0

[dryrot]

2 hours ago, jonb2 said:

Thursday's Brexit daily

[various articles deleted]

The EU is the enemy, not the Tories, not the corportocracy

http://www.welfareweekly.com/13-things-the-eu-gave-the-uk-which-we-now-take-for-granted/

More garbage. I clicked on the above link - after an interminable load I get  Thing #1:  Paid annual leave

-  er - Paid annual leave was started in Britain in 1938. Before the EU...) Clicking on the picture reveals the statement

The EU is responsible for making sure you get 28 days' paid leave per year.

- er - The EU minimum is 20 days. The British government increased it to 28 to cover bank holidays.

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-and-paid-holidays/

Jon2b, try and get a grip. Just post things that make sense, with backup to the relevant facts. And try for 1 or 2 links per post - unless you are trying to drown out the conversation!

[jonb2]

13 minutes ago, dryrot said:

More garbage. I clicked on the above link - after an interminable load I get  Thing #1:  Paid annual leave

-  er - Paid annual leave was started in Britain in 1938. Before the EU...) Clicking on the picture reveals the statement

The EU is responsible for making sure you get 28 days' paid leave per year.

- er - The EU minimum is 20 days. The British government increased it to 28 to cover bank holidays.

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-and-paid-holidays/

Jon2b, try and get a grip. Just post things that make sense, with backup to the relevant facts. And try for 1 or 2 links per post - unless you are trying to drown out the conversation!

Paid holidays were only a week in 1938. I remember it well as it was the first time I went to Butlins who smartly tailored his holidays for exactly this time off. I decided I wanted to be a Red Coat - all that beer, dressing up and sex. Of course, a year later, when I started training as a Spitfire pilot - the dream had to go.

Young whipper-snappers have it so easy these days. They should have been shot down and spent time building wooden exercise horses in a POW camp like I did.

But it seems EU law is not easy - look how our wonderful politicians did

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/how-many-britains-laws-really-7420612

[Funn3r]

I only read this thread once a weekish as I find it a bit too shouty for regular perusal. Still full of yah-boo-sucks and you're-an-idiot no you're-an-idiot. Here's your homework: the UK is looking pretty well doomed right now (with a capital Duh) and the future is looking even more doomed. Is Brexit going to rescue us, and if so what's the date for when things finally get better? See you next week.

[IMHAL]

47 minutes ago, Funn3r said:

I only read this thread once a weekish as I find it a bit too shouty for regular perusal. Still full of yah-boo-sucks and you're-an-idiot no you're-an-idiot. Here's your homework: the UK is looking pretty well doomed right now (with a capital Duh) and the future is looking even more doomed. Is Brexit going to rescue us, and if so what's the date for when things finally get better? See you next week.

Good question - any Brexiteers care to answer this?