cock-eyed octopus Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 38 minutes ago, Dorkins said: I'm not talking about 3rd party laws, I'm talking about the UK's own import laws. When the UK leaves the EU customs union it will become its own customs area and that means collecting tariffs on goods entering the UK from the EU. Do we need to apply tariffs? https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/wto-says-its-rules-would-not-force-eu-or-uk-to-erect-hard-irish-border-1.3710136 And I seem to remember something about WTO allowing existing tariff arrangements to continue for a period (3 months?) with organisations they already trade with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 2 hours ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said: Who knew that leavers were precious snowflakes? Astounding. Who knew remainers had no sarcasm compass. But then their brain has had a good wash by MSM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 12 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: Not if we unilaterally zero tariff... Why would anyone want to sign FTAs with us if we did? Tariffs arent the big problem though.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpeggio Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Dorkins said: Some proper nutso science in that link. Non-B-form DNA causing autoimmunity? If you actually read the guy's paper his evidence for this claim is that his PCR primers didn't work: https://file.scirp.org/pdf/ABC_2013022614430992.pdf No structural data showing that such a molecule exists in the sample, no attempt to isolate it and show that it has any effect on immune cells, just a failed PCR and then a wild leap of the imagination. Still, it's got some technical jargon and a few agarose gels which will be enough to convince a certain percentage of people who quite understandably don't know anything about molecular biology because they haven't studied it. Great I should write off to him with what you say (as someone with a degree in molecular biology?) and get back to you if he can be bothered to reply. Do you think that drug companies themselves have even looked this far into their own sh**e? http://drsuzanne.net/dr-suzanne-humphries-vaccines-vaccination/ The remaining majority of my post you have avoided. Feel free to answer the Cochran collaboration rot, pharma regulators being funded by pharma or Merck’s hit list......in terms of molecular biology if you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itssimple Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 May I suggest both remainers and brexiteers read this, as whichever way the current fiasco goes, it may help decisions that you make for the future. It's quite lengthy, but in my opinion worthwhile. Enjoy. http://openaccess.city.ac.uk/19674/1/Target%202%20v1.pdf As is already known I am in the brexit camp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Dave Beans said: Why would anyone want to sign FTAs with us if we did? Tariffs arent the big problem though.. What’s the problem then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Just now, GrizzlyDave said: What’s the problem then? If we unilaterally dropped tariffs, why would the US want to do an FTA with us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dave Beans said: If we unilaterally dropped tariffs, why would the US want to do an FTA with us? Why would we need an FTA if we have a zero tariff trade policy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Just now, GrizzlyDave said: Why would we need an FTA if we have a zero tariff trade policy? UK exporters would face tariffs, but those shipping into the UK would not. It would destroy UK industry.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 5 minutes ago, Dave Beans said: UK exporters would face tariffs, but those shipping into the UK would not. It would destroy UK industry.. We manage to trade very effectively with the USA without an FTA... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 1 minute ago, GrizzlyDave said: We manage to trade very effectively with the USA without an FTA... We have about thirty PTAs with the US via the EU..We don't trade under pure WTO rules with the US.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dave Beans said: We have about thirty PTAs with the US via the EU..We don't trade under pure WTO rules with the US.. So what brexit solution do you advocate DB - to overcome this border issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugsbody Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Arpeggio said: Great I should write off to him with what you say (as someone with a degree in molecular biology?) and get back to you if he can be bothered to reply. Do you think that drug companies themselves have even looked this far into their own sh**e? http://drsuzanne.net/dr-suzanne-humphries-vaccines-vaccination/ LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Just now, GrizzlyDave said: So what brexit solution do you advocate DB - to overcome this border issue? I would just push through the WA as is, and then work towards a way of not requiring it; ie developing an EEA type solution afterwards (then kick into the process of developing a two tier Europe). If we go into a no deal situation, the issues (citizens, money, irish border) will still need to be settled before an agreement with the EU is made. The EU will want to get further concessions (after the fact) out of the UK before they will agree to sign up to anything. Under the thumb of the EU will make it harder for the UK to develop a two tier Europe. Under the WA, at least we can make our own decisions in what we what to do...after a no deal, it will be much more difficult... We need to think about the long game.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smash Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 59 minutes ago, Itssimple said: May I suggest both remainers and brexiteers read this, as whichever way the current fiasco goes, it may help decisions that you make for the future. It's quite lengthy, but in my opinion worthwhile. Enjoy. http://openaccess.city.ac.uk/19674/1/Target%202%20v1.pdf As is already known I am in the brexit camp. I take it it's the Target 2 thing. Do you believe that the UK will be insulated from any future problems that may arise by Brexiting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, Dave Beans said: I would just push through the WA as is, and then work towards a way of not requiring it; ie developing an EEA type solution afterwards (then kick into the process of developing a two tier Europe). If we go into a no deal situation, the issues (citizens, money, irish border) will still need to be settled before an agreement with the EU is made. The EU will want to get further concessions (after the fact) out of the UK before they will agree to sign up to anything. Under the thumb of the EU will make it harder for the UK to develop a two tier Europe. Under the WA, at least we can make our own decisions in what we what to do...after a no deal, it will be much more difficult... We need to think about the long game.. Fair enough - well reasoned - thanks for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroSumGame Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 46 minutes ago, Itssimple said: May I suggest both remainers and brexiteers read this, as whichever way the current fiasco goes, it may help decisions that you make for the future. It's quite lengthy, but in my opinion worthwhile. Enjoy. http://openaccess.city.ac.uk/19674/1/Target%202%20v1.pdf As is already known I am in the brexit camp. I've skim-read it as a first pass. It's nice to see someone doing a bit of research on here, so well done you. A lot of this I already knew, and as with ANY economic document, facts are not disputed. Interpretations certainly will be.To me the gist of it is: to have monetary union, you must have political union - again I know this and aspire to it. A funny bit at the end - it mentions the ill-fated Darrien project by some one-time Scottish hobbits ultimately leading to the political and fiscal union of England and Scotland. Well the conditions have endured so far, but for how much longer? Anyway for those of a professional economic bent, the authors could be described as right leaning politically, € sceptic, and EU sceptic. In fact right up the street of former posters of this thread and the great big German thread. Actually the bits about Germany vs Italy and financial transfers are particularly topical, given that one of their ministers now wants to take over the mantel from Merkel as EU political head-honcho. I usually call politicians clowns pejoratively, but in Italy, aren't coalition partners lead by a clown, literally? Ie. this Grillo geezer? Westminster bad: Rome - the twighlight zone. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: Fair enough - well reasoned - thanks for sharing. No probs GD... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Itssimple said: May I suggest both remainers and brexiteers read this, as whichever way the current fiasco goes, it may help decisions that you make for the future. It's quite lengthy, but in my opinion worthwhile. Enjoy. http://openaccess.city.ac.uk/19674/1/Target%202%20v1.pdf As is already known I am in the brexit camp. It's based on a misunderstanding of what Target2 is, and extensively quoting Ambrose Evans-Pritchard shows the level of the author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smash Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 1 hour ago, thecrashingisles said: It's based on a misunderstanding of what Target2 is, and extensively quoting Ambrose Evans-Pritchard shows the level of the author. Its been doing the rounds that one, a family member and ardent Brexiter spam emailed me months ago with a "What is Target2?????" subject header. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aheadofthecurve Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 60 days until the sun rises on an independent United Kingdom. The fight for our independence has been one of our hardest fought battles in decades. It has seen traitorous politicians, loyal only to their pay masters, come out of hiding to admit their allegiance is first to the EU. It has seen an orchestrated media attack on the democratic vote taken by the UK electorate. The lies told by the media about the negatives of our freedom and independence will be subject to the cold light of day. The traitors within our own midst will be forced to "put up or shut up" as their tiresome fight against democracy will no longer have the backing of the EU. The Brexiteers, the heroes who have fought hard for our freedom and independence, who have withstood the media barrage of lies, who have shown that courage and conviction in what is right is more important than appearing politically correct will not only have my respect and the respect of other patriots but will have the unending privilege of being able to look their reflection in the eye - without the remoaner shame - knowing they helped preserve the home of the future generations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 5 hours ago, Sheeple Splinter said: 1. Denial loop? Try objectivity. 2. You did suggest that rather than admit your difficulties in interpreting the OECD graph and the significance of 2014 therein. Thank you for the links. Carney, alludes to my point in the first article... … my point simply being that the global economic malaise is a key driver in the UK's economic performance. Brexit; the process including the political shenanigans and Sterling exchange rate, is a driver too. 3. Rather than opining on forecasts, why don't you consider real data like the German vs UK GDP graph I posted? 3. It is only relevant if you put it in its proper context, neither you nor I have the time, data and models to do this. Those that do have almost without exception concluded that the referendum vote has already cost us over 2% of GDP. Just today the CER published an updated report that concluded the loss is now 2.3% of GDP which equates to a £17bn p.a. hit to the public purse. I am content to believe that these bodies have considered the available information in reaching their conclusions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smash Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 12 minutes ago, aheadofthecurve said: 60 days until the sun rises on an independent United Kingdom. The fight for our independence has been one of our hardest fought battles in decades. It has seen traitorous politicians, loyal only to their pay masters, come out of hiding to admit their allegiance is first to the EU. It has seen an orchestrated media attack on the democratic vote taken by the UK electorate. The lies told by the media about the negatives of our freedom and independence will be subject to the cold light of day. The traitors within our own midst will be forced to "put up or shut up" as their tiresome fight against democracy will no longer have the backing of the EU. The Brexiteers, the heroes who have fought hard for our freedom and independence, who have withstood the media barrage of lies, who have shown that courage and conviction in what is right is more important than appearing politically correct will not only have my respect and the respect of other patriots but will have the unending privilege of being able to look their reflection in the eye - without the remoaner shame - knowing they helped preserve the home of the future generations. Sh1t man, it must be like free-basing charlie at source in Columbia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 4 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said: Not if we unilaterally zero tariff... Sure, but under WTO rules the UK would have to unilaterally zero tariff everybody, not just the EU. Personally I would support unilateral zero tariffs even if Brexit wasn't happening but it would no doubt cause a mighty cry to go up from any sectors of the UK economy that were being shielded by tariffs. Plus it's not just about tariffs, goods entering the UK would need to conform to UK regulatory standards and that would require paperwork and inspections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 On 25/01/2019 at 15:51, Captain Kirk said: No sir, sorry sir... I'll try harder in the future, I promise. But actually, yes, I've watched a lot of people giving their views from across the spectrum, including Lamy. Then you will know that what Martin was saying was factually wrong. On 25/01/2019 at 15:51, Captain Kirk said: I see, fair insults. Even though we are dealing with views and options on here? I call it being rude and arrogant, which it clearly is. Is not describing Lamy as a has been trying to get attention rude and without any knowledge of the topic claiming everyone else is wrong and you are right arrogant. Perhaps if you want to play the delicate snowflake you should apply the same standards to your own posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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