Graduates In England Facing Debts Of £44,000

[MrPin]

Education (by which I mean certifactes) + money = scam

Edited April 28, 2016 by MrPin

[onlyme2]

I remember lecturers of the late 80's.

All the way in the lead up to the finals they were threatening strike action and cancelling final exams, right through the revision and exam preparation.

My respect for the system and lecturing profession is somewhere near zero. Deservedly so.

[canbuywontbuy]

Discipline + motivation + internet and you can learn most things at home these days.

[Bear Hug]

Discipline + motivation + internet and you can learn most things at home these days.

Yes, who needs real doctors?!

[winkie]

Yes, who needs real doctors?!

Can tell you all about hip operations, how and why it is done, but the internet can't actually do the operation, a doctor specialising in hips can.....or you never know one day a robot will do many opps and procedures if not a very capable nurse could.

[TheCountOfNowhere]

It's just more tax on an already burdened generation.

This will not end well either.

[South Lorne]

Because their lecturers and vice chancellors are worth it.

..yes ..they are intellectually superior.....

[GreenDevil]

A lot of EU students won't be paying any back..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3141810/Students-EU-studying-Britain-fail-repay-43million-tax-payer-funded-loans-untraceable.html

This is true, however, consider student loans as QE, its just a way of printing free money and getting it to the universities, in the hope that it will be paid back, if 80% or 90% is over time then its still money back which would of been paid out of our taxes.

[doomed]

if 80% or 90% is over time.

Quite optimistic.

[nnails]

20 years ago i went to uni. I had fees paid and grant. there would have been no way would i have considered if i had to get in to debt.

I can also say i would have been better of starting at work at very bottom and with some sort of on job training.

fast forward 20years . i never had a debt but i know so of my uni friends did. just as now you dont pay back till you get to certain wage but thanks to inflations thats a low wage now.

to tink back i should have got a loan for each year and used it as depoist for house when i was 22

[interestrateripoff]

20 years ago i went to uni. I had fees paid and grant. there would have been no way would i have considered if i had to get in to debt.

I can also say i would have been better of starting at work at very bottom and with some sort of on job training.

fast forward 20years . i never had a debt but i know so of my uni friends did. just as now you dont pay back till you get to certain wage but thanks to inflations thats a low wage now.

to tink back i should have got a loan for each year and used it as depoist for house when i was 22

In the last year of Uni this is what I did, took the money out and stuck it in the bank and used it as part of a deposit. Never earnt enough to pay it back either.

[ZeroSumGame]

More info on this:

Basically if you went to uni and got a crap expensive degree you can study part time in engineering essentially for free since your never going to pay the loan back.

I have been thinking of doing a second degree for the fun of it via the OU. Why not?

Thanks for posting that. I think it certainly is meant to be applied much wider than the Open University.

......... if they are studying in engineering, technology or computer science

Salient point being that they have already moved on from this repeated STEM requirement to a focus to where there may be less supply than demand. I.e. the subjects above.

[tinker]

Education, Education, Education

Debt, Debt. Debt

Student debt and house prices, the greatest con ever visited upon the masses.

[ZeroSumGame]

I neither want to derail this thread nor quote Zero Hedge .... but ... unpaid student debt in the U.S. has spiraled to such an extent that the Obama regime has now introduced 'debt forgiveness'. How long before this happens here?

Debt, Debt. Debt

Indeed. should you just pile right in and wait for debt remission? Down to the individual and their own tenacity I guess.

Debt. My favourite subject, beside Ponzi schemes that is.

[canbuywontbuy]

Discipline + motivation + internet and you can learn most things at home these days.

Yes, who needs real doctors?!

[porca misèria]

I neither want to derail this thread nor quote Zero Hedge .... but ... unpaid student debt in the U.S. has spiraled to such an extent that the Obama regime has now introduced 'debt forgiveness'. How long before this happens here?

Do keep up at the back.

It's built into the system from the start here. No payback until you're on decent money, then it works as a tax, and is time-limited. Automatic writeoff also by formula.

It's a graduate tax. But only for some graduates: those who both

1. fail to get support (grants, bursaries, scholarships, sponsorship) through university, and
2. do earn good money after graduating.

Libdems wanted a plain-and-honest graduate tax; Tories wanted loans. Result: a bastardised hybrid.

[Up the spout]

When I went to uni, loans for maintenance (based on your parent's income) had just been introduced and education was still free.

Education should always be free, for some subjects in red brick universities (previously technical colleges). Anyone, be they sixth formers or in an industry made redundant by mechanisation or off shoring, should be able to consider further education without worrying about £50k of debt just because they want to further their skills.

Instead we as a country import the skills gap and leave millions of Brits on the scrap heap of failed capitalism. If I were a youngster today I would be more worried about having to pay for my education than which major I was choosing. All thanks to Tony Bliar, the Lying Libs and austerity Osborne. ****** them all, I'm going to do my MA in Germany.

[spyguy]

Do keep up at the back.

It's built into the system from the start here. No payback until you're on decent money, then it works as a tax, and is time-limited. Automatic writeoff also by formula.

It's a graduate tax. But only for some graduates: those who both

1. fail to get support (grants, bursaries, scholarships, sponsorship) through university, and
2. do earn good money after graduating.

Libdems wanted a plain-and-honest graduate tax; Tories wanted loans. Result: a bastardised hybrid.

Its is.

Unfortunately, the HE sector massively because 1) there would be ltos of money coming in due to the 'loans' 2) all the HE ecuation would make the UK a economic power house.

Bohth have falled well short.Failed actually.

You have a sector who's spent has tripled but who's income has not matched.

The system matches a balance, which directs money at Unis that produce tax paying grads. The government will have to gut the sector, matching grad tax graduate to the institution/course they came from.

[spyguy]

When I went to uni, loans for maintenance (based on your parent's income) had just been introduced and education was still free.

Education should always be free, for some subjects in red brick universities (previously technical colleges). Anyone, be they sixth formers or in an industry made redundant by mechanisation or off shoring, should be able to consider further education without worrying about £50k of debt just because they want to further their skills.

Instead we as a country import the skills gap and leave millions of Brits on the scrap heap of failed capitalism. If I were a youngster today I would be more worried about having to pay for my education than which major I was choosing. All thanks to Tony Bliar, the Lying Libs and austerity Osborne. ****** them all, I'm going to do my MA in Germany.

Its a hard one, this.

Why should education be free? Why not burgers and beer?

There's a strong case fro a government to get kids eucated up to 16/GCSE - although they fail about 1/3 at this.

There's a case for why a government would want to have a good few people do productive, medical subjects. And these people earn a lot more for it.

But history, dance, english lit? Hard to make a case.

I finished Uni in 92. I did not want to go, economy fell apart and and had to do a 180 spin to pick a subject that has lasted me til today.

I earn quite a lot of money.

Of my cohorts from my Nothern area, I would estimate that only 50% actually did a job realted to their degree, which needed their degree. That was a shcoking waste of time and money.

These days, looking at my friends kids subjects, I would guess that figure is more 80% have been worthless.

Shocker isnt.

At the mo, the kid and UKGOV/taxpayer bears the cost of this waste.

I'd like the cost to be shared ith the Uni/lecturers too.

[Up the spout]

Its a hard one, this.

Why should education be free? Why not burgers and beer?

There's a strong case fro a government to get kids eucated up to 16/GCSE - although they fail about 1/3 at this.

There's a case for why a government would want to have a good few people do productive, medical subjects. And these people earn a lot more for it.

But history, dance, english lit? Hard to make a case.

I finished Uni in 92. I did not want to go, economy fell apart and and had to do a 180 spin to pick a subject that has lasted me til today.

I earn quite a lot of money.

Of my cohorts from my Nothern area, I would estimate that only 50% actually did a job realted to their degree, which needed their degree. That was a shcoking waste of time and money.

These days, looking at my friends kids subjects, I would guess that figure is more 80% have been worthless.

Shocker isnt.

At the mo, the kid and UKGOV/taxpayer bears the cost of this waste.

I'd like the cost to be shared ith the Uni/lecturers too.

I said " for some subjects in red brick universities" so your post isn't relevant.

[olde guto]

Why the USA? Why not try one of the excellent European universities? At least that way you get to experience a different culture/way of life and learn a new language.

Well lets hope that either brexit doesn't happen (i.e all those over 40's who were eligible for a free uni education vote to stay) or EU universities don't treat non-EU students like cash cows as UK ones do.

[CunningPlan]

I think the US system has some merit.

The cost varies greatly depending on the quality of establishment you want to go to.

It is also about half price to go to UNI in your home state (i.e. where your parents pay tax) than in another state.

The good bit is the scholarship system. This is entirely results based and will range from 0% to 100%. Therefore a dimwit from Alabama who has little chance of success may well be put off since he will have to pay full fees, however an exceptionally bright but poor student can get to Harvard totally free. It means the resource is focused on the brightest and most likely to succeed.

The other bit I like is that you don't choose your degree subject until the start of the second year and you can pick ANY subject at that UNI. Therefore, if you get into say Florida State, you WILL be able to study medicine if you want to. This to me makes a lot of sense as opposed to the UK system of limiting access to certain degrees and making the entry level ridiculously high. It also means that students tend to pick better and the drop out rate from a course is far lower than the UK.

[You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet]

As the oldest of three siblings, I have 2.5 years difference with my brother, and 7 years with my sister. I got through 3.5 years of Uni with no debt at all. In the first couple of years I got a small grant, which was enough to pay for my course text books. My brother had to take on some debt in his second year at Uni, as tuition fees were introduced, and it took him ten years to ultimately pay it off. My sister had much higher debts again, but nothing compared to what some people are taking on.

The problem is, these astronomical fees are all some students have ever known, and should it continue into the long-term, it will probably just be accepted as normal. If I had to go to Uni with those sorts of fees, there's no way I would have done it. Unless you come out of it with an exceptional job or really rich parents, how the heck to go from educational debt to mortgage (or rent) debt and expect to have any quality of life for the rest of your natural life?

Edited April 29, 2016 by You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet

[spyguy]

I said " for some subjects in red brick universities" so your post isn't relevant.

So, who's going to pick those subjects?

Are they going to central plan it?

What about new subjects,as they arise?

[spyguy]

I think the US system has some merit.

The cost varies greatly depending on the quality of establishment you want to go to.

It is also about half price to go to UNI in your home state (i.e. where your parents pay tax) than in another state.

The good bit is the scholarship system. This is entirely results based and will range from 0% to 100%. Therefore a dimwit from Alabama who has little chance of success may well be put off since he will have to pay full fees, however an exceptionally bright but poor student can get to Harvard totally free. It means the resource is focused on the brightest and most likely to succeed.

The other bit I like is that you don't choose your degree subject until the start of the second year and you can pick ANY subject at that UNI. Therefore, if you get into say Florida State, you WILL be able to study medicine if you want to. This to me makes a lot of sense as opposed to the UK system of limiting access to certain degrees and making the entry level ridiculously high. It also means that students tend to pick better and the drop out rate from a course is far lower than the UK.

Indeed.

People tend to look at the cost of going to Harvard.

When you look how much UCB costs to someone living in Cal, its a totally different kettle of fish.

There's a lot of muttering on expanding public Unis in the states at the mo.