Sancho Panza Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Telegraph 26/8/14 'But how much of this nannying would have been necessary if we had a decent grasp of money matters? Despair at our financial ineptitude and gullibility has driven his long campaign to make financial education a compulsory part of the national curriculum. He vowed to make this happen before his daughter, Sapphire (“Baby MSE”), reached school age. Next month, in potentially the most far-reaching public wake-up call of his career, “financial numeracy” will be taught as part of maths and “attitudes to money and debt” as part of citizenship. Baby MSE is not yet two. “We have educated our youth into debt,” Lewis says of the student loan system. “It is a national disgrace that has caused us massive societal problems such as the payday-loan endemic. Politicians should hang their heads in shame. We got rid of the stigma of borrowing. We inured a nation to debt without educating them about when it’s good and when it’s bad. It is government-enforced debt. That has been a terrible thing for society. Not student loans as such, but lack of education. Nobody took custodial care. “I spend half my life on financial justice campaigns – PPI, CPP, bank charges. Consumers were conned out of £20 billion. Those issues would not have been nearly so seismic if there had been financial education. We’ve got a massive deficit in pensions. Kids need to understand that. We don’t save enough. We don’t understand how to make risk-based decisions. From now on, every child in every school that has to follow the curriculum will start to understand how the competitive consumer economy works.” Questions will not be of the theoretical three-men-digging-a-hole variety but the nitty-gritty of credit cards, APRs and payday loans. “Because of its practical nature, kids will engage. They will be turned on to maths for the first time. This is a long game. We need this right across the board for years.”' It's main;ly a puff piece on Lewis but I think his views echo with many on this board.Good on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Educated....Brain washed more like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campervanman Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 A generation has grown up since the 1980's the mentality that credit and debt is normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reck B Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 "We've educated our whole society into consumerism funded by debt, in a quest for perpetual growth." more like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeTrader Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 (edited) No sign of the thirst for debt slowing for those who can get past the MMR stress test. The BBA published July lending data this morning, and the average approval value for house purchase hit an all-time record of £167,600. The majority of these loans will be two-year fixes. Meanwhile July mortgage approvals dipped slightly, coming in below market expectations of 44K. Edit: typo Edited August 26, 2014 by FreeTrader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 "We've educated our whole society into consumerism funded by debt, in a quest for perpetual growth." more like. I'd go with a quest for cheap, easy and quick perpetual growth. Good debtors is what the system needs it keeps consumerism going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeTrader Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 From Sancho's quote: "We have educated our youth into debt,” Lewis says of the student loan system.Martin Lewis on student debt Sept 2012: Student loans aren’t a debt – change the name to avert a national tragedy (Lewis has since rewritten his blog on student debt - the new version is here.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 No sign of the thirst for debt slowing for those who can get past the MMR stress test. The BBA published July lending data this morning, and the average approval value for house purchase hit an all-time record of £167,600. The majority of these loans will be two-year fixes. Edit: typo A nominal debt chart starting in 1997 and ignoring the interest rate. Nice trick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBrit Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Most people don't realise this, but the product that banks sell is DEBT. What astonishes me is when people walk into a bank to apply for a loan, they ask what is the MAXIMUM they can borrow. Nobody does this in other shops. Imagine you went to your local grocer and ask, what is the maximum I can spend in your shop. Banks have such good marketing that they have fooled us into wanting the maximum of their product, instead of the minimum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeTrader Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 A nominal debt chart starting in 1997 and ignoring the interest rate. Nice trick Come back when you're offering us 25-year fixed at 2%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 A nominal debt chart starting in 1997 and ignoring the interest rate. Nice trick what was the average wage variation between the two points...not that much change i would wager...maybe a 25% increase in wages? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Interesting on his article he talks of paying nothing if you earn less than £21,000 (soon to be inflation-linked). However, kids are sold university on the basis of getting better jobs and aspiration. It's a crock of shit really? Keeping half of school leavers in eduction really benefits Government (lower youth unemployment) and the higher education business. Sure going to university can be a good and life-enhancing experience. Unfortunately, gown to this level a degree becomes a piece of paper, a certificate to allow you into a club (the jobs market). The debt and pressure placed on young and naive shoulders is terrible. And then there is the complete mess made of the housing market (except it's no longer a market, it's a scam). At the root of all this politicians, the debt business and a cohort of hangers on skimming off the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikthe20 Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 (edited) Hmmmm. I learnt my aversion to debt from my parents. They could not wait to get the mortgage paid off ASAP (working class family). Why does the state have to teach everyone everything?! Surely parents should teach common sense and how to manage household finances. The converse should have been that people who over-borrow and banks that over-lend go bust - that's a lesson that they would learn pretty quickly and their friends, families (and children!) would witness and learn from, but we know how that went. Edited August 26, 2014 by mikthe20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stateless Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 I feel that that there has been a massive decline in education standards. Which be convenient if true. Seriously the government does not want the masses getting to smart. A fool and his money are easily separated! Make no mistake this is not an accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashmonitor Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Interesting on his article he talks of paying nothing if you earn less than £21,000 (soon to be inflation-linked). However, kids are sold university on the basis of getting better jobs and aspiration. It's a crock of shit really? Keeping half of school leavers in eduction really benefits Government (lower youth unemployment) and the higher education business. Sure going to university can be a good and life-enhancing experience. Unfortunately, gown to this level a degree becomes a piece of paper, a certificate to allow you into a club (the jobs market). The debt and pressure placed on young and naive shoulders is terrible. And then there is the complete mess made of the housing market (except it's no longer a market, it's a scam). At the root of all this politicians, the debt business and a cohort of hangers on skimming off the top. Always think University debt is pushed onto students...firstly by the university industry itself, the property circus that surrounds the campus, politicians looking to debt driven GDP and aspirant parents. You can see Tony Blair in all four camps at one time so it is not surprising we are living the low productivity Blairite education dream (looking to artificially boost GDP, owning BTL property in University towns, being an aspirant parent, taking lecture fees.) Meanwhile the students themselves don't see it as real debt. A 1/4 chance that none of it will be repaid and probably only a 1/4 chance that it will all get paid. A cut price rite of passage in other word for three or four years. Heck why not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 “I spend half my life on financial justice campaigns – PPI, CPP, bank charges. Consumers were conned out of £20 billion. Those issues would not have been nearly so seismic if there had been financial education. Those issues aren't really seismic. Very important and serious issues yes and further evidence of the scale of out of control banking and regulation etc. The seismic issues include endemic pensions fraud and endemic fraud surrounding mortgages and house prices - neither of which he mentions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig_ Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 The thing with Martin Lewis is that yes, he talks a good game with regards to financial responsibility, but has made most of his money out of sponsored links to credit card deals and the like, so could potentially be viewed as part of the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Most people don't realise this, but the product that banks sell is DEBT. What astonishes me is when people walk into a bank to apply for a loan, they ask what is the MAXIMUM they can borrow. Nobody does this in other shops. Imagine you went to your local grocer and ask, what is the maximum I can spend in your shop. Banks have such good marketing that they have fooled us into wanting the maximum of their product, instead of the minimum. Fooled entitled idiots, my direct market competition, dumb-ass market competitors, who happily outbid me by tens and hundreds of thousands of pounds. Then forced to listen to all the excuses for them, as instead of being repo'ed, rates are floored, they rent out property 1, and upsize to property 2, and then more excuses for them. "They didn't have a brain. There were adverts on the telly. The developers' offplan marketing. He had a nice suit. Yvette Cooper said it was all ok." All music to older housing VI too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btl_hater Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Fooled entitled idiots, my direct market competition, dumb-ass market competitors, who happily outbid me by tens and hundreds of thousands of pounds. Then forced to listen to all the excuses for them, as instead of being repo'ed, rates are floored, they rent out property 1, and upsize to property 2, and then more excuses for them. "They didn't have a brain. There were adverts on the telly. The developers' offplan marketing. He had a nice suit. Yvette Cooper said it was all ok." All music to older housing VI too. I'm glad there is at least one person in the UK who is more furious with the housing market situation than me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Sadman Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 I would certainly agree education needs an overhaul. Namely get rid of RE and geography and replace it with financial studies, consumer rights and what they call in the US 'street law'. Time people knew their rights and didn't get bullied by police and other jumped up 'authority' figures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sancho Panza Posted August 26, 2014 Author Share Posted August 26, 2014 Interesting on his article he talks of paying nothing if you earn less than £21,000 (soon to be inflation-linked). However, kids are sold university on the basis of getting better jobs and aspiration. It's a crock of shit really? Keeping half of school leavers in eduction really benefits Government (lower youth unemployment) and the higher education business. Sure going to university can be a good and life-enhancing experience. Unfortunately, gown to this level a degree becomes a piece of paper, a certificate to allow you into a club (the jobs market). The debt and pressure placed on young and naive shoulders is terrible. And then there is the complete mess made of the housing market (except it's no longer a market, it's a scam). At the root of all this politicians, the debt business and a cohort of hangers on skimming off the top. I've always wondered about the T+C's of these loans and whether there is any provision for a change to the payment trigger levels.Much like there are some pretty hefty 'margin call' clauses in most mortgage T+C's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rentbug Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Fooled entitled idiots, my direct market competition, dumb-ass market competitors, who happily outbid me by tens and hundreds of thousands of pounds. Then forced to listen to all the excuses for them, as instead of being repo'ed, rates are floored, they rent out property 1, and upsize to property 2, and then more excuses for them. "They didn't have a brain. There were adverts on the telly. The developers' offplan marketing. He had a nice suit. Yvette Cooper said it was all ok." All music to older housing VI too. There is an old saying "if you can't beat them, join them". While I agree with you 100% and support your sentiments unreservedly I do feel we are not able to beat them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reck B Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 /\ Makes perfect sense if you be from Devon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammo Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 I would certainly agree education needs an overhaul. Namely get rid of RE and geography and replace it with financial studies, consumer rights and what they call in the US 'street law'. Time people knew their rights and didn't get bullied by police and other jumped up 'authority' figures. That would go against common purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 I'm glad there is at least one person in the UK who is more furious with the housing market situation than me! there's at least two if us...im so angry property bulls on other forums talk about it. my anger is dropping as their FEAR rises though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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