What's Your Plan B

[Neverwhere]

I encourage you to listen from 22 minutes

News Quiz

Excellent link!

[dances with sheeple]

Should be possible if you aren't servicing a mortgage and rent modestly. Controlling housing costs, living modestly and saving hard are key. Being satisfied with the free outdoors for leisure is a great help, and having the right clothing to enjoy it whatever the weather.

House owning colleagues are much poorer in both money and well-being.

I was brought up only knowing home ownership

University introduced me to renting - never really came across the concept before.

Have rented ever since - 30 years now

Being priced out of house-owning (or rather being unwilling to either throw away the amount of hard earned money required or borrow), and realising that it doesn't matter, is liberating, and is now the envy of many colleagues who have given up crowing about HPI as they know in their heart of hearts that it's all teetering on the brink. Jobs are being lost and contracts not renewed at a growing pace - there is an increase in youngsters being taken on in government funded training posts replacing older more expensive staff with mortgages. There is an undercurrent of fear.

Same for me, 20 years now, and coming round to the idea that having shares/cash/multiple years living expenses/whatever as long as it is liquid, is the way to go, having "ownership" of a plot of land or pile of bricks is pretty irrelevant IMO, apart from just being a nice place to rest your head. All my landlords have been pretty fair and decent people to be honest.

Reading "Into Thin Air" at the moment, and although there are some pretty wealthy people involved, the situations they find themselves in ( or open themselves up to) puts it all in perspective I think. The scene where someone has curled up and "hopes to die quickly" while a New York socialite screams "I don`t want to die, I don`t want to die" as a group of people hit each other to keep warm is especially chilling . (Alcohol connection; Renting and freezing to death on Mt Everest )

[wherebee]

Plan A was work overseas for a couple of years and be able to buy somewhere small post crash (which I expected in the Uk in 2009/10)

Seven years into the international journey, plan is still to do that - but have now managed to save 300kGBP which is (hopefully) going to see us right within the next few years. Plan B also now includes the ability to buy in Oz or NZ.

The most important thing for me is a bit of land for growing food on, as in my remaining 50 years on the planet I will be amazed if there isn;t at least one period when the international food supply network breaks down due to war/pestilence/pandemic, and it would be nice to have a bit of insurance....

[zugzwang]

Plan A.

1. Ride the reflation trade 'full tits' long all the way up.

2. Get aggressively short for the inevitable bust.

3. Acquire physical gold/silver for the subsequent hyperinflation.

4. F*** off somewhere warm with my winnings.

Plan B.

See above.

[douglasc]

Graduated in 2003. Plan A was to move to London, save up and buy a small flat with the girlfriend and see how things went from there.

11 years on, we've saved lots, we're now married. However, we've not bought any housing: the prices just seem so out of proportion with everything else. It seems so much more worthwhile to spend the money on more interesting things. For example, I obtained my Private Pilot's licence during 2009/2010 for a fraction of the "typical first time buyer's deposit" in London.

Plan B: move to Malaysia (where my wife is from) and live mortgage-free. It's somewhat ironic, given that the appreciation of London's housing has been largely thanks to the middle classes in Malaysia/Singapore snapping it up.

[Captain Tightwad]

Try to stick it out until my parents die, then buy a one-way ticket to a Dignitas clinic in Zurich and leave everything to people I like. That's not as gloomy as it probably sounds - things aren't terrible, I just don't see any need to try to drag them out as far as humanly possible.

Current situation: mid-40s, single, stuck renting (modestly) in London, don't see any prospect of the housing market becoming sane in my lifetime. ~260k savings, adding ~20k a year, all cash. I know it's leaking to inflation like a sieve, but I can't see anything that's not a ZIRP-pumped bubble at the moment and to be honest I find the whole investment thing kind of sordid.

[mentalfloss]

Same for me, 20 years now, and coming round to the idea that having shares/cash/multiple years living expenses/whatever as long as it is liquid, is the way to go, having "ownership" of a plot of land or pile of bricks is pretty irrelevant IMO, apart from just being a nice place to rest your head. All my landlords have been pretty fair and decent people to be honest.

Reading "Into Thin Air" at the moment, and although there are some pretty wealthy people involved, the situations they find themselves in ( or open themselves up to) puts it all in perspective I think. The scene where someone has curled up and "hopes to die quickly" while a New York socialite screams "I don`t want to die, I don`t want to die" as a group of people hit each other to keep warm is especially chilling . (Alcohol connection; Renting and freezing to death on Mt Everest )

After you've read that, I reccomend reading "The Climb" by anatoli boukreev for a different perspective on the same events. Both good books IMO but there's two sides to every tale. Back to the topic at hand I wonder wethrt the inevitable collapse will be like that Everest storm. People assume massive debt is safe because they are basically I'll prepared, lazy and stupid. When the chill winds of financial hardships blow in they'll be the ones trembling with fear as events outside their control tear their world apart.

[ccc]

Die of a beer and drug fueled beasting session whilst listening to take it to the limit by the Eagles.

Actually that's what i am half way too right now

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Plan A is to raise a family with as little compromise as possible.

Why do I need a plan B?

[Venger]

Plan B can’t afford to buy his own house despite award-winning album and his own movie | The Sun |

Plan B ... all he can afford is somewhere 'he doesn't want to live'

By GORDON SMART, Showbiz Editor

Published: 25th June 2012

PLAN B has yet to buy his own gaff – because he’s “too broke”.

Despite writing an award-winning album in The Defamation Of Strickland Banks and directing his own movie, Ill Manors, he reckons all he can afford is a two-bedroom flat somewhere he “doesn’t want to live”.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/bizarre/4392529/Plan-B-cant-afford-own-ill-manor-but-paid-off-mums-mortgage.html

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

That's just a poor example.

Edited March 1, 2014 by 7 Year Itch

[Kurt Barlow]

Plan A was work overseas for a couple of years and be able to buy somewhere small post crash (which I expected in the Uk in 2009/10)

Seven years into the international journey, plan is still to do that - but have now managed to save 300kGBP which is (hopefully) going to see us right within the next few years. Plan B also now includes the ability to buy in Oz or NZ.

The most important thing for me is a bit of land for growing food on, as in my remaining 50 years on the planet I will be amazed if there isn;t at least one period when the international food supply network breaks down due to war/pestilence/pandemic, and it would be nice to have a bit of insurance....

With all the bad news about the Aussie economy the OTH and I were discussing plan B's in the advent the economy here in Perth really tanks and we are without work. Im in Oil and Gas and she is a chemical engineer in manufacturing (the dodo of aussie economy).

Plan B maybe a move back to the UK as job prospects seems pretty good for both of us

[Venger]

With all the bad news about the Aussie economy the OTH and I were discussing plan B's in the advent the economy here in Perth really tanks and we are without work. Im in Oil and Gas and she is a chemical engineer in manufacturing (the dodo of aussie economy).

Plan B maybe a move back to the UK as job prospects seems pretty good for both of us

You've still got a house here don't you? I recall all that eco-solar heating cool stuff, and something about you renting it out.

And you've sure travelled around in recent years, as I recall things, hopefully putting some large into savings.

[Fully Detached]

My plan B is simply to ****** off and buy abroad. I'm sick of paying tax in this country so it can be actively used against me. I'm sick of saving and holding money with the constant risk of losing it all to inflation or systemic collapse. I'm sick of the seemingly active intent of successive governments to make this country as undesirable to live in as they possibly can.

Once I started looking into this, the less reasons I could find to stay. My work is as much in Europe as in the UK, so it would make very little difference to me on the travelling side of things. The only problem I have is convincing the Mrs to move - she has family here and is nervous about learning a new language.

But that is plan B - if things don't improve here I expect to see it implemented within the next 24 months.

[Kurt Barlow]

You've still got a house here don't you? I recall all that eco-solar heating cool stuff, and something about you renting it out.

And you've sure travelled around in recent years, as I recall things, hopefully putting some large into savings.

Still have the House in Cambridge which is rented out. The Foray into the Middle East boosted the savings by the best part of 100K. I have been in Oz for a fortnight short of two years and saved a fair wack although its only since Dec 13 that I got back into a big money Oil and Gas job. The OTH and I rent an apartment in Perth. No plans to buy at current insanity prices. She is a chemical engineer and the jobs market for her in the UK looks more favourable than here as manufacturing dies on its feet.

I wouldn't mind a move back to the UK as I do miss my family, the uk environment and culture. I don't miss the weather though

[Guest spp]

Looking to leave the country.

Not unexpected but they really have slapped 20% on the asking prices since the 'invention' of Help To get into deBt. The VI establishment (politicians, banksters, EU bureaucrats etc) really are dragging the country into the gutter with their short term debt based patch job.

The crap weather is just the icing on the cake.

For those with the skills and the financial backing to do so, I really can't see how you aren't at least making plans to leave to more warmer/sunnier climes. If you enjoy a 'project' and could quite happily live a sustainable lifestyle, there is some serious value to be had in parts of France, Spain and Italy.

[jammo]

Do not buy a house, buy something less boring instead. Perhaps a boat if you like to hang around flood plains.

[disenfranchised]

I only started earning above average and being able to save in 2009-10, so it's not really a case of plan a/b for me. I saved hard in 2010-12 so that I could make a move if there was a rapid correction, but nowadays I really don't care to be honest. Home ownership is not something I yearn for, it would always have to be the right financial and personal decision.

The thing I have found most liberating about not being in debt at all and having some savings, is that I do not feel threatened by the future.

I recently acquirred a new boss who was being a bit if an ****. I challenged him on this and told him that I felt he thought he could walk in, kick some ass & we would have to doff our caps and prove ourselves to him, whereas the reality is that I am very good at my job, and therefore, quite at liberty to take my services elsewhere, so he had the challenge to retain me, rather than I to prove I should be retained.

Few tied down by a big mortgage would dare say that -they'd just suck it up, internalize their stress, and be a down-trodden minion - I am surrounded by them.

I am starting to really believe that the effect of debt slavery on the individual is to induce a mindset of obedient beholden servitude. Maybe the reason those from rich backgrounds seem to get all the breaks is partly because they are liberated from worry, stand their ground, and take their chances.

I am not saying I will never get a mortgage ever.I may do if it suits, but I certainly wouldn't over-extend myself and restrict my options. Going forwards, I will always ensure that I have enough to walk away and put my feet up for a year if I want to.

[Guest spp]

Few tied down by a big mortgage would dare say that -they'd just suck it up, internalize their stress, and be a down-trodden minion - I am surrounded by them.

I am starting to really believe that the effect of debt slavery on the individual is to induce a mindset of obedient beholden servitude. Maybe the reason those from rich backgrounds seem to get all the breaks is partly because they are liberated from worry, stand their ground, and take their chances.

Bingo. The type of person you talk about doesn't ask questions either. A politician/bankster dream.

Having savings/liquid assets that can cover at least 6-12 months worth of bills...priceless!

[John51]

Try to stick it out until my parents die, then buy a one-way ticket to a Dignitas clinic in Zurich and leave everything to people I like. That's not as gloomy as it probably sounds - things aren't terrible, I just don't see any need to try to drag them out as far as humanly possible.

Current situation: mid-40s, single, stuck renting (modestly) in London, don't see any prospect of the housing market becoming sane in my lifetime. ~260k savings, adding ~20k a year, all cash. I know it's leaking to inflation like a sieve, but I can't see anything that's not a ZIRP-pumped bubble at the moment and to be honest I find the whole investment thing kind of sordid.

Sounds like you need to get the eff out of London. I know some people love being there but it can be soul destroying to many. I'd suggest holidaying up north twice a year and throw some wonga about having a blast. You'll still be saving well over £15k a year. I'm biased towards Liverpool, have met many that came here to visit and then stayed but of course there are some that think it's a dump. Many places in the UK are vibrant without the sense of despair that London can give a person. No harm in having a look see just in case there is a place that you enjoy being in.

[council dweller]

bet

Bingo. The type of person you talk about doesn't ask questions either. A politician/bankster dream.

Having savings/liquid assets that can cover at least 6-12 months worth of bills...priceless!

Yes.

In April I`ll pay our rent for the year and half our council tax. The wife will pay the other half (and worry herself half to death)

Does it make sense for me to do this and lose interest?

You bet, this is priceless *100...free yourselves from worry lads and ladies!

Edited March 1, 2014 by council dweller

[dances with sheeple]

After you've read that, I reccomend reading "The Climb" by anatoli boukreev for a different perspective on the same events. Both good books IMO but there's two sides to every tale. Back to the topic at hand I wonder wethrt the inevitable collapse will be like that Everest storm. People assume massive debt is safe because they are basically I'll prepared, lazy and stupid. When the chill winds of financial hardships blow in they'll be the ones trembling with fear as events outside their control tear their world apart.

In the scene I mentioned above one of the guys who survived says that the moment he realised they were in big trouble was when he saw two Sherpas double back, obviously as lost in the storm as he was. This was the moment that he realised that "They", the "Experts" had lost control, and it was then that he started to panic. When massive property debt stops being safe it will happen to many people very quickly IMO, and they will be knocked over by the realisation that they have f*ucked up big time, and that there is nothing the PTB can do to help them.

Will definitely read "The Climb" (Boukreev was killed not long after it came out?) as well as another highly recommended version of what went on by one of the survivors, Beck Weathers (Do you know how many survivors of this incident put out books afterwards?) A book that seems to get mentioned a lot in connection with this stuff is "Touching the Void", don`t know if it is about the same incident or same climbing season though.

Ok, just found out it is about a slightly earlier time, different place, but even more f*ucked up survival story!

Edited March 1, 2014 by dances with sheeple

[StainlessSteelCat]

Try to stick it out until my parents die, then buy a one-way ticket to a Dignitas clinic in Zurich and leave everything to people I like. That's not as gloomy as it probably sounds - things aren't terrible, I just don't see any need to try to drag them out as far as humanly possible.

Current situation: mid-40s, single, stuck renting (modestly) in London, don't see any prospect of the housing market becoming sane in my lifetime. ~260k savings, adding ~20k a year, all cash. I know it's leaking to inflation like a sieve, but I can't see anything that's not a ZIRP-pumped bubble at the moment and to be honest I find the whole investment thing kind of sordid.

Genuinely sorry to read the first para of this. It sounds like you could do with a bit more fun in your life. Maybe escaping London, even for a little while occasionally, would help. It's easy to feel like there's nothing else in the world but that particular treadmill when you live there.

Also do try and hang in there. Mid 40s is well known to be one of our unhappier times. It gets better for many in later years. But, I'm guessing, you've still got your health and also plenty of cash - still time to take advantage of it.

Yes.

In April I`ll pay our rent for the year and half our council tax. The wife will pay the other half (and worry herself half to death)

Does it make sense for me to do this and lose interest?

You bet, this is priceless *100...free yourselves from worry lads and ladies!

I do the same. It's great feeling knowing you owe no-one owt.

I only started earning above average and being able to save in 2009-10, so it's not really a case of plan a/b for me. I saved hard in 2010-12 so that I could make a move if there was a rapid correction, but nowadays I really don't care to be honest. Home ownership is not something I yearn for, it would always have to be the right financial and personal decision.

The thing I have found most liberating about not being in debt at all and having some savings, is that I do not feel threatened by the future.

I recently acquirred a new boss who was being a bit if an ****. I challenged him on this and told him that I felt he thought he could walk in, kick some ass & we would have to doff our caps and prove ourselves to him, whereas the reality is that I am very good at my job, and therefore, quite at liberty to take my services elsewhere, so he had the challenge to retain me, rather than I to prove I should be retained.

Few tied down by a big mortgage would dare say that -they'd just suck it up, internalize their stress, and be a down-trodden minion - I am surrounded by them.

I am starting to really believe that the effect of debt slavery on the individual is to induce a mindset of obedient beholden servitude. Maybe the reason those from rich backgrounds seem to get all the breaks is partly because they are liberated from worry, stand their ground, and take their chances.

I am not saying I will never get a mortgage ever.I may do if it suits, but I certainly wouldn't over-extend myself and restrict my options. Going forwards, I will always ensure that I have enough to walk away and put my feet up for a year if I want to.

A Francis Urquhart fund is highly recommended. Truly liberating to know you can walk away from your job if it all gets too much, plus as you say; you can take risks at work that others cannot. In many cases, that'll end up making you a better employee as well as improve your career prospects - providing you get the office politics right and some of the stuff you do comes good on occasion.

Good for you for realising this. Not many do.

Edited March 1, 2014 by StainlessSteelCat

[dances with sheeple]

Genuinely sorry to read the first para of this. It sounds like you could do with a bit more fun in your life. Maybe escaping London, even for a little while occasionally, would help. It's easy to feel like there's nothing else in the world but that particular treadmill when you live there.

Also do try and hang in there. Mid 40s is well known to be one of our unhappier times. It gets better for many in later years. But, I'm guessing, you've still got your health and also plenty of cash - still time to take advantage of it.

I do the same. It's great feeling knowing you owe no-one owt.

A Francis Urquhart fund is highly recommended. Truly liberating to know you can walk away from your job if it all gets too much, plus as you say; you can take risks at work that others cannot. In many cases, that'll end up making you a better employee as well as improve your career prospects - providing you get the office politics right and some of the stuff you do comes good on occasion.

Good for you for realising this. Not many do.

Thought that was some mutual fund or something, until I realised it was the "Two Digit" account you meant.

[John51]

Mid 40s is well known to be one of our unhappier times. It gets better for many in later years. But, I'm guessing, you've still got your health and also plenty of cash - still time to take advantage of it.

That is so true. As a youngster I was really looking forward to my 30s as I believed my head would be sorted by then. Not true. My 40s were grim but once I turned 50, everything just seemed to fall into place. Not all at once but every year was better than the one before.