The Bubbly Bitcoin Thread -- Merged Threads

[RickyD]

Ether has breached $200!

[Frugal Git]

15 minutes ago, RickyD said:

Ether has breached $200!

Kicking myself for not exchanging a whole btc for about 50 of them when I did get into it, rather than just 1/8th of a btc! Still, not too shabby :-) 

[Errol]

Whether you like bitcoin or not, I do think that the exploding exponential rise is an indicator that something very nasty is about to happen. 

Gold is (still) subject to manipulation or it would be doing similar. 

People are clearing getting their money out of the system while they still have time.

[tomandlu]

On 5/21/2017 at 7:10 PM, Darby Ram said:

People have been using the tulip bulb analogy for as long as I've been interested in Bitcoin (at least four years). It makes no sense.

Tulip bulbs aside, I remain puzzled as to how a currency with permanent deflation apparently baked-in can really work - especially when any wider acceptance is just going to send it to the moon. The comparison to tulip bulbs isn't entirely off-base, but the problem bitcoin faces is subtler. It's value as an asset-class and it's value as a currency are both correlated and incompatible. I can't help but feel that, unsatisfactory as it is, they would have been better of pegging it to something, anything.

[tomandlu]

34 minutes ago, Errol said:

Whether you like bitcoin or not, I do think that the exploding exponential rise is an indicator that something very nasty is about to happen. 

Gold is (still) subject to manipulation or it would be doing similar. 

People are clearing getting their money out of the system while they still have time.

What makes you think they're not just chasing a bubble?

[Errol]

I think it presages something in the system. Perhaps just a general instinctive mood among the populations of various nations.

 

[jiltedjen]

i think its bubble chasing, but thats more or less how bitcoin grows huge boom and busts, but on an upward trend.

i dont really see bitcoin as a currency, more a store of value. On the same vien with a lot of the alt-coins, they will probably be a currency but not a store of value like bitcoin, so surely it makes more sense to invest in companies around the biggest altcoins than the altcoins themselves.

bitcoin however is a pretty decent store of value, buy and hold more or less. 

[adamLancs]

16 minutes ago, tomandlu said:

Tulip bulbs aside, I remain puzzled as to how a currency with permanent deflation apparently baked-in can really work - especially when any wider acceptance is just going to send it to the moon. The comparison to tulip bulbs isn't entirely off-base, but the problem bitcoin faces is subtler. It's value as an asset-class and it's value as a currency are both correlated and incompatible. I can't help but feel that, unsatisfactory as it is, they would have been better of pegging it to something, anything.

It's not really deflationary though, is it? If you've been watching the sector for a while you will notice a bigger picture emerging. The money flows in and out of Bitcoin into new blockchain projects on a continual basis. Those new blockchain projects issue new currency. With the addition of all that new currency, in it's various forms, the overall effect is actually inflationary. It is disguised by the flood of new money entering, but I stand by that statement. However, look at the difference between what is happening in Bitcoin compared to fiat...

Fiat -> People hold GBP, BoE prints GBP, BoE gives GBP to it's "favourite" businesses (ie. through friends, family, backhand deals, unfair subsidies), value of everybody's GBP goes down, pockets of the rich get lined further

Bitcoin -> People hold Bitcoin, Business issues new currency CoinX, people swap Bitcoin for CoinX, value of Bitcoin and value of CoinX rely on success of each other

Bitcoin's version of inflation is multiples more efficient, and is also more democratic as the onus lies with individuals to manage their own risk / reward and make their own vote with their own money. It is a free market for shares without central government interference. The only way for this system to print is to innovate. Any new currency that enters the system has to convince people it is worthy of investment, via a business model.

What you are witnessing is the free market having found a way to take power back from the central bankers, and corruption away from the politicians.

So yes, not many people are spending Bitcoin to buy a burger or for fuel, but it is being moved around. It is flowing, and I would argue it's rise now is due to the rest of the sector being built around and on top of Bitcoin, not in spite of it. And in that sector, somewhere, pathways to spending Bitcoin on ordinary consumption will emerge, along with incentives for doing so. But you have to look at the bigger picture, if you tunnel-vision on Bitcoin you will not see it.

[jiltedjen]

wow great post +1

[jiltedjen]

Thinking 5-10 years in the future:

what happens when the next huge bubble comes, coupled with halvings and easier to get money into bitcoin.

Its going to start getting to the point when governments will want to stop people investing soo much into it that it was cause potential financial instability. If a large % of the nation start to put most of their wage packed into bitcoin each month. its just going to keep going up and up.

its going to end up as a titanic bubble, nothing functions like bitcoin. one day its going to cause some serious issues. a lot of people are going to be the new stinking rich sure. but a lot of people are going to loose their shirts. 

[maverick73]

Bitcoin is an ungoverned invisible asset, and everyone's gone bananas over it.

[doomed]

3 hours ago, Errol said:

I think it presages something in the system. Perhaps just a general instinctive mood among the populations of various nations.

 

People are waking up. How could it possibly end up any different once governments start directly printing money to give to their mates.

The world has turned into some sort of sick banana republic that is hid from the masses by the mainstream media. Not long left now imo.

[GreenDevil]

3 hours ago, adamLancs said:

It's not really deflationary though, is it? If you've been watching the sector for a while you will notice a bigger picture emerging. The money flows in and out of Bitcoin into new blockchain projects on a continual basis. Those new blockchain projects issue new currency. With the addition of all that new currency, in it's various forms, the overall effect is actually inflationary. It is disguised by the flood of new money entering, but I stand by that statement. However, look at the difference between what is happening in Bitcoin compared to fiat...

Fiat -> People hold GBP, BoE prints GBP, BoE gives GBP to it's "favourite" businesses (ie. through friends, family, backhand deals, unfair subsidies), value of everybody's GBP goes down, pockets of the rich get lined further

Bitcoin -> People hold Bitcoin, Business issues new currency CoinX, people swap Bitcoin for CoinX, value of Bitcoin and value of CoinX rely on success of each other

Bitcoin's version of inflation is multiples more efficient, and is also more democratic as the onus lies with individuals to manage their own risk / reward and make their own vote with their own money. It is a free market for shares without central government interference. The only way for this system to print is to innovate. Any new currency that enters the system has to convince people it is worthy of investment, via a business model.

What you are witnessing is the free market having found a way to take power back from the central bankers, and corruption away from the politicians.

So yes, not many people are spending Bitcoin to buy a burger or for fuel, but it is being moved around. It is flowing, and I would argue it's rise now is due to the rest of the sector being built around and on top of Bitcoin, not in spite of it. And in that sector, somewhere, pathways to spending Bitcoin on ordinary consumption will emerge, along with incentives for doing so. But you have to look at the bigger picture, if you tunnel-vision on Bitcoin you will not see it.

Nail on the head there. I concur with the alt coins. I was wondering why there were only pairs between certain altcoins and bitcoin. But as you say, people are swapping bitcoins for other currencies and back into bitcoin, its pretty clear, and then cashing the gains back into bitcoin.

The other way of spending coin are yet undecided, hence the altcoin market, bitcoin is too inefficient, dash,ccash etc are hoping to grab that market.

[GreenDevil]

 

[200p]

I've already placed an order for a stainless steel edition Ferrari F40 Lol

(JOKE)

Edited May 24, 2017 by 200p

[Kosmin]

3 hours ago, adamLancs said:

Fiat -> People hold GBP, BoE prints GBP, BoE gives GBP to it's "favourite" businesses (ie. through friends, family, backhand deals, unfair subsidies), value of everybody's GBP goes down, pockets of the rich get lined further

Bitcoin -> People hold Bitcoin, Business issues new currency CoinX, people swap Bitcoin for CoinX, value of Bitcoin and value of CoinX rely on success of each other

Bitcoin's version of inflation is multiples more efficient, and is also more democratic as the onus lies with individuals to manage their own risk / reward and make their own vote with their own money. It is a free market for shares without central government interference. The only way for this system to print is to innovate. Any new currency that enters the system has to convince people it is worthy of investment, via a business model.

What you are witnessing is the free market having found a way to take power back from the central bankers, and corruption away from the politicians.

Fiat money has value as it's twintopt (that which is necessary to pay taxes). Could bitcoin supplant this?

 

[Frugal Git]

Has anyone on here actually spent any yet? When I went to Berlin a few years back, I tried to find a burger place that supposedly accepted them. Lucky I didn't - not quite the legendary 24 million (and counting) dollar bitcoin pizza but it'd certainly have been a £50 one at today's value.

Still i'm tempted, as that (pretty grimy) second hand electronics shop CEX accepts bitcoin online and even in some stores. Might buy a second hand ps3 game or something for 0.001 coins, just for fun.

Also one btc is nearly 2 Oz of Au now! Again, I'd happily swap 0.1 btc for a sov if that was possibly somewhere.

[miggy]

Strange days for those of us who have been involved for years. I don't know quite what to think. 

For the first time ever I am being asked by friends how to buy ether. Bubble? Well it's all based on speculation so perhaps, yes. Consumers and big business are just starting their involvement now but it's still hard to get crypto and very confusing.  Coinbase falling over this week isn't helping.

The big question is whether ethereum or perhaps ripple will really take on bitcoin. 

[Acid In The Punch Bowl]

7 hours ago, adamLancs said:

It's not really deflationary though, is it? If you've been watching the sector for a while you will notice a bigger picture emerging. The money flows in and out of Bitcoin into new blockchain projects on a continual basis. Those new blockchain projects issue new currency. With the addition of all that new currency, in it's various forms, the overall effect is actually inflationary. It is disguised by the flood of new money entering, but I stand by that statement. However, look at the difference between what is happening in Bitcoin compared to fiat...

Fiat -> People hold GBP, BoE prints GBP, BoE gives GBP to it's "favourite" businesses (ie. through friends, family, backhand deals, unfair subsidies), value of everybody's GBP goes down, pockets of the rich get lined further

Bitcoin -> People hold Bitcoin, Business issues new currency CoinX, people swap Bitcoin for CoinX, value of Bitcoin and value of CoinX rely on success of each other

Bitcoin's version of inflation is multiples more efficient, and is also more democratic as the onus lies with individuals to manage their own risk / reward and make their own vote with their own money. It is a free market for shares without central government interference. The only way for this system to print is to innovate. Any new currency that enters the system has to convince people it is worthy of investment, via a business model.

What you are witnessing is the free market having found a way to take power back from the central bankers, and corruption away from the politicians.

So yes, not many people are spending Bitcoin to buy a burger or for fuel, but it is being moved around. It is flowing, and I would argue it's rise now is due to the rest of the sector being built around and on top of Bitcoin, not in spite of it. And in that sector, somewhere, pathways to spending Bitcoin on ordinary consumption will emerge, along with incentives for doing so. But you have to look at the bigger picture, if you tunnel-vision on Bitcoin you will not see it.

Thats a great post

[Tapori]

2 hours ago, GTFO said:

Thats a great post

It is and I listened in 2016 to a fascinating radio4 doc about how big finance had employed lots of RandD to build and analyse and harness the power of the blockchain logic and implemented it onto new banking services.

I'm kicking myself for not buying when it was at 150 pounds per coin. I had my finger on the button but something came up. Now I want back in. i do so on my own risk. Absolutely shocked at Ethereum which was a mere stripling when I last checked. I'm in London.

Knowledgeable people: What's the best exchange and wallet for both Bit and Ethereum and how long do you expect the bubble to last?

Edited May 25, 2017 by Tapori

[jiltedjen]

Well it passed £2,000 a coin 

[adamLancs]

5 hours ago, Tapori said:

I'm kicking myself for not buying when it was at 150 pounds per coin. I had my finger on the button but something came up. Now I want back in. i do so on my own risk. Absolutely shocked at Ethereum which was a mere stripling when I last checked. I'm in London.

Knowledgeable people: What's the best exchange and wallet for both Bit and Ethereum and how long do you expect the bubble to last?

Bitstamp.net (BTC), Kraken.com (BTC & ETH & Others), Coinbase.com (BTC & ETH & LTC) all have been around for years now and are pretty solid. Bitfinex recently lost it's banking partner. Coinfloor (BTC) is newer but seems to target UK. Kraken.com, Poloniex.com and Bittrex.com for altcoins.

Without the pain of running a full node you can use what is known as lightweight wallets...

BTC - Electrum Bitcoin Wallet

LTC - Electrum Litecoin Wallet

ETH & ERC20 tokens - myetherwallet.com

You can create your seed offline. This is your key so don't lose it.

There's quite a few mobile wallets now also. Jaxx.io and Exodus.io are popular.

I wouldn't personally like to predict the next top. I remember thinking Bitcoin could shine a light on just how much silly money is in the fiat system if the gates swing open. But perhaps it's also wishful thinking. Buyer beware, the graph is looking pretty exponential atm.

Edited May 25, 2017 by adamLancs

[adamLancs]

12 hours ago, jiltedjen said:

Thinking 5-10 years in the future:

what happens when the next huge bubble comes, coupled with halvings and easier to get money into bitcoin.

Its going to start getting to the point when governments will want to stop people investing soo much into it that it was cause potential financial instability. If a large % of the nation start to put most of their wage packed into bitcoin each month. its just going to keep going up and up.

its going to end up as a titanic bubble, nothing functions like bitcoin. one day its going to cause some serious issues. a lot of people are going to be the new stinking rich sure. but a lot of people are going to loose their shirts. 

I honestly don't know but it does remind me of the early internet. People are still figuring out what a trusted decentralized network means and what they can do with it, that is why there are so many ideas and ICOs and projects entering the fray. And no doubt many of them will fail but...

If you're bored at work, visit coinmarketcap.com and just have a scroll down. Click a coin name and then visit the Website link on the next page. There's literally hundreds of these projects, the difference to 4 years ago is staggering.

[crooksook]

Tin foil hat time:

I don't know whether this has been discussed before on the thread, but any of you considering getting into bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies need to be aware that you and only you are responsible for keeping hold of the secret (the key) that secures your coins. Should you lose the key, no-one is going to be able to help you recover your coins - they are effectively lost forever. Should you store them in a web wallet and defer responsibility to someone else, they are at risk of being stolen. Should you store them using your phone or on your computer, you are vulnerable to hackers stealing the key.

So before you commit large sums of money, you should make sure you have read up extensively on ways to secure and protect your coins. Various options exist. Some randomly-sampled relevant reading:

* Hot versus cold storage: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Cold_storage
* Hardware wallets (specialist gadgets that claim to keep your key safe): https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Hardware_wallet
* Brain wallet: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Brainwallet
* Secure key cold storage (paper burns!): http://cryptosteel.com/

Personally, I wold never commit more than a few hundred pounds to a hot wallet. Anything above this I would keep in a mixture of a hardware wallet and cold-storage using a carefully generated key on a machine w/out internet connection and then wiped (a first-generation raspberry pi is ideal as it doesn't have wifi or bluetooth). The truly paranoid won't even trust a computer to generate the random seed but roll dice as their source of entropy...

Of course, the more securely you store your key, the harder it is to then perform any transactions. If you can trust a hardware device, something like a Trezor (https://trezor.io/) or a Ledger (https://www.ledgerwallet.com/) may help bridge the gap. But not all coins are supported, mostly the big ones.

Good luck!

[doomed]

Bitcoin price in S.Korea is currently over $4k.