The Eagle Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I take your point and I agree there is a risk the country could tear itself apart, but the things it has going for it: 1) A non-dictatorial government with the organisation (or at least the international support to become organised) to sell oil wealth and redistribute it fairly throughout the country. straight from my signature: I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. [Mahatma Gandhi] And why do you expect the new leaders to redistribute the oil wealth fairly throughout the country? Gaddafi actually did invest quite a lot in the country, Lybia was not a poor country even by western standards before the war started. Also Lybia was one of the last few countries in the world (along with North Corea, Iran and a couple of others) that didn't have a bankster controlled debt-based currency! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libspero Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 straight from my signature: I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. [Mahatma Gandhi] Not sure I follow the relevance.. did you object more to the violence of the rioters overthrowing Gaddafi, or the violence in the suppression by Gaddafi of his own people? And why do you expect the new leaders to redistribute the oil wealth fairly throughout the country? Gaddafi actually did invest quite a lot in the country, Lybia was not a poor country even by western standards before the war started. Also Lybia was one of the last few countries in the world (along with North Corea, Iran and a couple of others) that didn't have a bankster controlled debt-based currency! If they follow the western model you dislike so much then yes, most of the money will be redistributed back to the people (£700bn planned in the UK for next year). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Eagle Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) Not sure I follow the relevance.. did you object more to the violence of the rioters overthrowing Gaddafi, or the violence in the suppression by Gaddafi of his own people? That quote is from Gandhi not from me. It simply means that a bloody revolt will simply end up in the dictator being replaced, but for the common people nothing will change. That's why I don't expect that things will change to the better for the common people in Lybia. Is Iraq better off now than before with Saddam Hussein? I don't think so. If they follow the western model you dislike so much then yes, most of the money will be redistributed back to the people (£700bn planned in the UK for next year). What western model are you talking about? The bankster corpocracy? In what dreamworld are you living, because in the western model we are currently living in most money is being soaked up by the elite (via the corporations and the banks) and only a small trickle is coming back down, that's why we currently are in the mess we are in. Even your 700bn (whatever that is) sounds rather like a trickle when you divide it by 60mln inhabitants and then take into account UK living costs... (not to mention that most of it goes straight back into the pockets of corporations) --- Edited October 21, 2011 by awake_eagle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monks Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 British media this morning reporting his death, and possible execution, as if it was a breach of the mans "human rights". Get the impression they would be clammering for a public inquiry and full compensation for his surviving relatives if it was closer to home! Unbelievable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caius Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Who executed him then? It cannot have been any of those cuddly NTC freedom fighters we've been told so much about by the Brit media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 British media this morning reporting his death, and possible execution, as if it was a breach of the mans "human rights". Get the impression they would be clammering for a public inquiry and full compensation for his surviving relatives if it was closer to home! Unbelievable! Yes, I can't see anything wrong with a mob of people beating up a prisoner who is then shot. We should have more of this sort of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Who executed him then? It cannot have been any of those cuddly NTC freedom fighters we've been told so much about by the Brit media. Of course not - those plucky freedom-loving chaps wouldn't hurt a fly. Apparently there was a 'crossfire' where the Cols own supporters managed to shoot their leader at close range in the head but luckily, no-one else. It must be true because that's what the new government that we helped put in place are saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Loblaw Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Funny how most on here (and the majority of the Left) are opposed to the death penalty yet find the execution of someone 'like a dog in the street' as a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ologhai Jones Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Where was his right to a trial? A good question. If Libya wants to become 'civilised', do you think they should arrest and try the person who killed Gaddafi? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Bear Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) Funny how most on here (and the majority of the Left) are opposed to the death penalty yet find the execution of someone 'like a dog in the street' as a good thing. Whether it's a good thing for us, sitting here all safe and cosy, is one thing. Whether it's good for Libyans, who've had to endure not just a dreadful war but also the 42 year rule of an increasingly bonkers, narcissistic, ruthless, kleptocratic megalomaniac, is another. Just about every informed talking head on the media has been saying that OK, in an ideal world, etc.... but on balance it's probably better for Libya's new start that he's dead and gone. Edited October 21, 2011 by Mrs Bear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tricksters Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Not sure I follow the relevance.. did you object more to the violence of the rioters overthrowing Gaddafi, or the violence in the suppression by Gaddafi of his own people? Judging by some of the posts on here, you'd scarcely think there was any suppression by Gaddaffi of his people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StainlessSteelCat Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 It'll be interesting to revisit this thread in a few years time and see if the situation has improved for the average Libyan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHERWICK Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 IMHO, and who am I to judge I know, it was very wrong the way Gaddifi was murdered yesterday. But why do I feel the way Saddam Hussein met his death was even worse (again IMHO) - maybe because the West was more directly involved in Hussein's death...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englebert Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I wonder if Tony Blair shuffled off this mortal coil in a similar fashion to Gaddafi's, would there be an outcry...or would there be scenes of jubilation? I think the latter. I know I would have a nice cup of tea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Bear Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Of course not - those plucky freedom-loving chaps wouldn't hurt a fly. Apparently there was a 'crossfire' where the Cols own supporters managed to shoot their leader at close range in the head but luckily, no-one else. It must be true because that's what the new government that we helped put in place are saying. What is the saying about not judging anyone until you've walked a mile in his shoes? All too easy IMO for people who've never had to lift so much as a blase little finger for their own freedom, to make sanctimonious comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brave New World Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Just another democractic West hit job. The pictures last night showed what this bastion of free thinking and liberty is capable of. Quite scary actually. That said the States have been doing it for decades for the own self gain and neo imperialist concerns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corevalue Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Whether it's a good thing for us, sitting here all safe and cosy, is one thing. Whether it's good for Libyans, who've had to endure not just a dreadful war but also the 42 year rule of an increasingly bonkers, narcissistic, ruthless, kleptocratic megalomaniac, is another. Just about every informed talking head on the media has been saying that OK, in an ideal world, etc.... but on balance it's probably better for Libya's new start that he's dead and gone. Slanderous. Libya had free health care, education, and a benefits systems which meant that Libyans were quite happy to stay there and not emigrate to our shores. Gaddafi increased the number of doctors seven-fold. Check on it before you repeat your mind-wash. Let's see how long it will take for the new puppets to redistribute the wealth of the country to where it belongs, the shareholders of Western corporations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steaky Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Just another democractic West hit job. The pictures last night showed what this bastion of free thinking and liberty is capable of. Quite scary actually. That said the States have been doing it for decades for the own self gain and neo imperialist concerns. Exactly. Who's next? I hear Chavez has a bit of Gold and Oil he'd like to offload to the NWO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHERWICK Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Slanderous. Libya had free health care, education, and a benefits systems which meant that Libyans were quite happy to stay there and not emigrate to our shores. Gaddafi increased the number of doctors seven-fold. Check on it before you repeat your mind-wash. Let's see how long it will take for the new puppets to redistribute the wealth of the country to where it belongs, the shareholders of Western corporations. So what you're saying is that he was a good man? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Boy Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 A trial would have been too embarassing. Best all round . A bit dodgy if the truth actually came out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Best all round . A bit dodgy if the truth actually came out. David Bellamy certainly has questions to answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 What is the saying about not judging anyone until you've walked a mile in his shoes? All too easy IMO for people who've never had to lift so much as a blase little finger for their own freedom, to make sanctimonious comments. I look forward to a fantastic democracy with wealth for all, just like Iraq and Afghanistan following Western interventions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigantic Purple Slug Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Whether it's a good thing for us, sitting here all safe and cosy, is one thing. Whether it's good for Libyans, who've had to endure not just a dreadful war but also the 42 year rule of an increasingly bonkers, narcissistic, ruthless, kleptocratic megalomaniac, is another. Just about every informed talking head on the media has been saying that OK, in an ideal world, etc.... but on balance it's probably better for Libya's new start that he's dead and gone. The problem with having principles is that you shouldn't be selective about who you apply them to. If you're interested in starting a new country with a democratic process and the strong rule of law then what better way to begin than to apply these principles to the old government, which was so lacking in these areas. In my opinion what happened was understandable, but not preferable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LC1 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 So what you're saying is that he was a good man? In this crazy complex world we live in, it is sometimes possible for people to be nasty and do good things at the same time.... The way I see it, Gadaffi was a nutjob who brutally suppressed his political opposition. But he also provided the majority of his population with excellent education and healthcare etc. Not saying this makes up for being a tyrant, obviously. Now whether the Libyan people are going to be better off now that they're 'free'? Well, we'll just have to wait and see. Saddam had a similar thing going in Iraq. And as another poster asked, are the Iraqi people better off now? Genuine question, as I have no idea. It certainly hasn't been a bed of roses for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trekking Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Apparently he's died of his wounds. http://live.reuters.com/UK/Event/Latest_from_Libyan_conflict Lead poisoning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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