interestrateripoff Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/debt-crisis-live/9085647/Debt-crisis-and-Greek-talks-live.html 20.27 So, to sum up: the European Central Bank has moved to protect its €50bn Greek-bond portfolio from losses by swapping the bonds for new ones issued by Greece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) That is what the elites would like people to think as they cut Greece loose, and maybe it will get bad, but won`t other countries and ordinary punters be queing up now to dump all their debt. If it`s good enough for Rangers and good enough for Greece, why not Wee Bobby who thought he was a right canny "investor"? This is end game for the Euro and for the banks who thought they ran the world? When the eu and their euro were being originally marketed both were advertised as being certain to increase standards of living throughout europe - efficiencies of size, common currency efficiencies and common rules and economic discipline etc etc etc. Well it's now perceived by many as being anything but guaranteeing increasing living standards through efficiency etc indeed generally any increase in living standards has been through unsustainable debt, perhaps except Germany and a few such like. They've totally mishandled it all, completely mismanaged it and tried to sell a mirage and the economic downfall of Greece (and the rest of the PIIGS) proves it. How much has the Greek gdp dropped, how much austerity is being demanded of them now. It seems to be austerity most everywhere. For sure the advocates of the eu etc can't realistically come back now and say look the eu offers jumps in living standards because it's now seen to be blatantly untrue - except through unsustainable and even fraudulent debt. Likely people would just laugh at it now. Even the marketing of the eu as giving more security for european countries and less chance of war in europe is getting ever more tenuous considering all the QE/moneyprinting etc happening now with the risk of crazy inflation levels being triggered along with lack of real democracy as well as nations just going under such as Greece. Edited February 16, 2012 by billybong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie The Tramp Returns Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 If the Greeks do not withdraw from the EU and the Euro by the end of this year then my ***** is a bloater. There is no other way for them, then the Greeks in Athens en mass can perform Zorba`s dance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 Even the marketing of the eu as giving more security for european countries and less chance of war in europe is getting ever more tenuous considering all the QE/moneyprinting etc happening now with the risk of crazy inflation levels being triggered along with lack of real democracy as well as nations just going under such as Greece. It's clearly big on irony. The Euro may bring civil war closer in certain countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9087653/Just-as-Greece-complies-at-last-Europe-pulls-the-plug.html ..What the EU-IMF "Troika" did not fully understand is how many firms were really part of the state in disguise. "The Greek government outsources everything," said one official with close knowledge of the events. Faced with the guillotine, the state first slashed procurement contracts and then stopped paying its bills altogether. The government is now €7bn (£5.8bn) in arrears to private companies, including €3bn in unpaid VAT refunds for exporters. It is why business has borne the brunt of the fiscal squeeze, suffering 450,000 job losses, and why Greece's unemployment has soared to 21pc. At the same time the banking system seized up. More than €60bn of deposits were withdrawn. By November, no Greek bank could issue a letter of credit accepted anywhere in the world, with calamitous implications for trade – and for exporters trying to meet Troika demands for export-led recovery. "Greece became a leper, and is now stuck in Catch-22," said one official. More at the link. Do the Greeks outsource so the officials can then get a brown envelope as thanks for awarding the contract? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 http://www.zerohedge.com/news/market-slowly-figures-out-ecb-fake-out-euro-and-greece-negative-greek-1-year-bonds-hit-639 And while FX, and naturally stock, markets are getting dumber by the minute, the one final bastion or rationality remains credit. Indeed, Greek 1 year bonds just dropped to a new all time low, yielding a jaw-dropping 583% and trading as high as 639%. I'm sure this isn't as stupid as it looks.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ambroseevans-pritchard/100015016/greece-and-the-melian-dialogue-of-thucydides-obscure/ Athenians: Hope, danger's comforter, may be indulged in by those who have abundant resources. Let not this be the case with you, who are weak and hang on a single turn of the scale; nor be like the vulgar, who, abandoning such security as human means may still afford, when visible hopes fail them in extremity, turn to invisible, to prophecies and oracles, and other such inventions that delude men with hopes to their destruction.Melians: You may be sure that we are as well aware as you of the difficulty of contending against your power and fortune, unless the terms be equal. But we trust that the gods may grant us fortune as good as yours, since we are just men fighting against unjust. Our confidence, therefore, after all is not so utterly irrational. More at the link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dances with sheeple Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 VINCENT CIGNARELLA: Will Greece Default As Early As Monday? http://www.dowjones....rlyasMonday.asp Lets hope so, I want to see the c*unts on the BBC forced to read doom after gloom after disaster with their little Janet and John smiles. I want to see Greece recover with it`s own currency and say "F*uck you very much" to the banking "elites". Too much to ask? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timebandit Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 IMF empty pockets!! BRUSSELS—The International Monetary Fund is expected to contribute just €13 billion ($17.07 billion) to a second Greek aid package worth €130 billion, leaving euro-zone governments to provide a much bigger share of funds than they did in the euro zone's three earlier bailouts, people familiar with the situation said.The IMF's smaller contribution reflects fears from the fund's membership that it is becoming over-exposed to the euro zone, officials said. It has already agreed to lend €30 billion to Greece, €22.5 billion to Ireland and €26 billion to Portugal, many times the shareholding of those three governments in the IMF. Officials said the size of the IMF's contribution hasn't been more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Coates Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Before tempting everyone on this thread to invoke Godwin's law, you should realise that although Kissinger was actually born in Germany, his family thought it prudent to leave in 1938. I'll leave you to work out why. Sorry for late reply as was away from internet. I found the Godwins law very interesting but own up to be so sad and lazy I got the information from wackypedia. I have adopted a habit of equating and relating a person or group of peoples actions and attitudes WRT 'The Nazi's'. I spy for an older bloke. Looking out for satans little helpers in life. Anyone I meet, see or read factual articles about have their words, attitudes and actions compared to sociopaths and psychopaths. So someone like kissenger, who have no human empathy and commit mass murder by their words and actions automatically come into the 'category'. kissengers crimes against humanity are well documented. Having read Godwins law I can see that I should not by extension ask a forum poster if they are such a creature, as it is un warranted, unfair at best and pathetic at worst. I have to apologise. Sorry Mr Leister square Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicestersq Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Sorry for late reply as was away from internet. I found the Godwins law very interesting but own up to be so sad and lazy I got the information from wackypedia. I have adopted a habit of equating and relating a person or group of peoples actions and attitudes WRT 'The Nazi's'. I spy for an older bloke. Looking out for satans little helpers in life. Anyone I meet, see or read factual articles about have their words, attitudes and actions compared to sociopaths and psychopaths. So someone like kissenger, who have no human empathy and commit mass murder by their words and actions automatically come into the 'category'. kissengers crimes against humanity are well documented. Having read Godwins law I can see that I should not by extension ask a forum poster if they are such a creature, as it is un warranted, unfair at best and pathetic at worst. I have to apologise. Sorry Mr Leister square Ned, thanks and no problem. Keep the viewpoints coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spp Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Greek 1 Year At 629%, Biggest One Day Jump In Yield Ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timebandit Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Keep or hand in your Drachma before the deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Democorruptcy Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Just thinking of a list and I've been to Rhodes, Symi, Crete, Santorini, Thassos, Nisyros, Corfu, Lesvos, Kos and Kefalonia but never the same one more than 5 times. God bless all the lovely people I've met over the years and good luck to them. They could be going to lose a lot of what they have worked very hard for but surely it's got to be better than being debt slaves to Germans? Beyond financial collapse Iceland isn't appealing but Greece could be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwine Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Well look on the good side at least they can go back to making olive-oil Not forgetting the ABBA film "Mama Mia" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Democorruptcy Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Well look on the good side at least they can go back to making olive-oil Not forgetting the ABBA film "Mama Mia" Well at least it's better than swapping piles of bricks to one another at ever increasing prices. I've never licked a brick but olives taste nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) Edited February 18, 2012 by Errol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Roady Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Just watching Andrew Marr (so this is not based on any in depth analysis); do I detect more pessimism over Greece leaving the Euro? The atmosphere seems to have changed slightly this weekend. Are they about to default? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Are they about to default? By all acounts they defaulted some time ago ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dances with sheeple Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Just watching Andrew Marr (so this is not based on any in depth analysis); do I detect more pessimism over Greece leaving the Euro? The atmosphere seems to have changed slightly this weekend. Are they about to default? Hope so. Should get the waggon rollin` for the rest to go bang? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Just did a round robin of various media outlets and they... don't have a clue. Half think that tomorrow the global financial system is saved as the Greek 'problem' is solved, others think that Greece will default tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 By all acounts they defaulted some time ago ... Wales defaulted 30 years ago but no one noticed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuffy Chuffnell Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Surely it will be neither? Greece's problem won't be solved. They'll find the cuts needed, they'll get their bailout and we wait a couple more months... Something will give at some point, but I don't think we're quite there yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drunkincharge Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Surely it will be neither? Greece's problem won't be solved. They'll find the cuts needed, they'll get their bailout and we wait a couple more months... Something will give at some point, but I don't think we're quite there yet. Obummer and Merksozy won't allow armageddon in an election year. Greece will go out of the Euro in 2013. They will give tranches of bailout till then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butthead Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Obummer and Merksozy won't allow armageddon in an election year. Greece will go out of the Euro in 2013. They will give tranches of bailout till then. Merkel's election prospects might well be reduced by caving in and giving Greece more German tax-payer money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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