Pmax2020 Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 Perhaps this is a Scottish thing, but nothing will convince me houses are more expensive for younger people today, than in 2007. In 2006 I got my first job earning a pathetic but not uncommon £10,000. It was an entry level job in a reputable company. A year later I was in a whopping £12,000. My wife to be was on similar. (We both had just graduated, don’t ask). The crappest flats in my town at that time were £65,000 - 70,000. So 6 or 7x income for me and many others. Today, minimum wage for 21 year olds equates to £24,000. In fact, work in Aldi / Tesco and The exact same flats in my town are now less than 3x income. Perfectly acceptable ex-local authority 2/3 bed terraced houses 4-5x income. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHPCinTheUK Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 Ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 A Scottish thing, beautiful country.......one places loss is Scotland's gain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nome Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 £120k might just about get you the shittiest house on the shittiest Council Estate with the shittiest neighbours. This is not "perfectly acceptable" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pmax2020 Posted April 13 Author Share Posted April 13 20 minutes ago, NoHPCinTheUK said: Ok Show me an example near you that disproves this? In 2007 we bought a total garbage flat for 4x our combined income. My kids could get something better on a single income today... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70PC Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 28 minutes ago, Pmax2020 said: Perhaps this is a Scottish thing, but nothing will convince me houses are more expensive for younger people today, than in 2007. In 2006 I got my first job earning a pathetic but not uncommon £10,000. It was an entry level job in a reputable company. A year later I was in a whopping £12,000. My wife to be was on similar. (We both had just graduated, don’t ask). The crappest flats in my town at that time were £65,000 - 70,000. So 6 or 7x income for me and many others. Today, minimum wage for 21 year olds equates to £24,000. In fact, work in Aldi / Tesco and The exact same flats in my town are now less than 3x income. Perfectly acceptable ex-local authority 2/3 bed terraced houses 4-5x income. I doubt there was ever a time when the average person could buy a home with a starting salary. The median salary in 2006 was £24k. A £70k house then would have been 3X median salary.There are also regional factors. The median price of a London house now is £500k which is 20X current median salaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sell2rent Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 (edited) Also holds true for Dunfermline for a 3 bed detached for a new GP partner and still is (2X income) but being a GP has seen one of the worst declines in income over that period too! Edited April 13 by sell2rent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pmax2020 Posted April 13 Author Share Posted April 13 12 minutes ago, 70PC said: I doubt there was ever a time when the average person could buy a home with a starting salary. The median salary in 2006 was £24k. A £70k house then would have been 3X median salary.There are also regional factors. The median price of a London house now is £500k which is 20X current median salaries. You could leave school, work in Tesco for 3 years till you’re on the 24k minimum wage for a 21 year old - and guess what - you could easily afford to buy a small flat / house in 95% of UK towns!! Someone just mentioned Dunfermline which I know relatively well. There are many houses/flats within 5 miles of there, for approx 3.5x minimum wage. It was infinitely harder for young people in 2006/2007. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHPCinTheUK Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 (edited) That’s a great news. You should write to the FT, Mail etc. They will be pleased to tell their readers that in 95% of the UK towns someone working in a Tesco can buy a house on a 25kish salary. a lot of people clearly don’t know it Edited April 13 by NoHPCinTheUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sell2rent Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 I need to ask about the graduation. A new graduate job in Fife paid £20k in 1998. Why did you go for half that 8 years later in a booming economy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70PC Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 22 minutes ago, Pmax2020 said: You could leave school, work in Tesco for 3 years till you’re on the 24k minimum wage for a 21 year old - and guess what - you could easily afford to buy a small flat / house in 95% of UK towns!! Someone just mentioned Dunfermline which I know relatively well. There are many houses/flats within 5 miles of there, for approx 3.5x minimum wage. It was infinitely harder for young people in 2006/2007. House prices did go mad leading up to 2007 but ZIRP was waiting in the wings. House sales today are falling with mortgage defaults rising steadiy. Will ZIRP return? I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbeard Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 1 hour ago, Pmax2020 said: nothing will convince me houses are more expensive for younger people today, than in 2007 What an odd comment - well if nothing will convince you I shan’t attempt to do so then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownwardSlopingPlateau Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 2 hours ago, Pmax2020 said: Perhaps this is a Scottish thing.. Indeed it is. Too much of this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frederico Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 Err rundown parts of Scotland ….. very attractive, maybe up and coming, gentrification, load up. Oh it’s always cold, raining, you have the crazies in power and they hate the English. I’m out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiltedjen Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 so the benchmark of expensiveness should be when the prime minister was seriously considering putting tanks on the streets due to a collapsing banking system? For fear of us all going feral and killing each other. cool. If anything they should be more expensive! I mean we should go full mad-max when it collapses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pmax2020 Posted April 13 Author Share Posted April 13 2 hours ago, NoHPCinTheUK said: That’s a great news. You should write to the FT, Mail etc. They will be pleased to tell their readers that in 95% of the UK towns someone working in a Tesco can buy a house on a 25kish salary. a lot of people clearly don’t know it This forum paints houses as being wholly unaffordable for the majority of people. Which isn’t true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mynamehere Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 9 minutes ago, frederico said: Err rundown parts of Scotland ….. very attractive, maybe up and coming, gentrification, load up. Oh it’s always cold, raining, you have the crazies in power and they hate the English. I’m out. I don't mind the cold anywhere near as much, but hate rain so always been drawn to the dark spots on the map. Personally 700mm a year is about my limit. Which rules out central/west Scotland but also Wales, the North west of England and much of the south coast too. As for affordability, I don't think Scotland deserves to be singled out. It really is a south east problem, and anyone living outside the south east expecting a crash has likely been reading London centric news stories and making faulty extrapolations to their own region Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamcasting Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 22 minutes ago, mynamehere said: As for affordability, I don't think Scotland deserves to be singled out. It really is a south east problem, and anyone living outside the south east expecting a crash has likely been reading London centric news stories and making faulty extrapolations to their own region IMO It'll either be a mainly SE crash, or other area get to SE prices. Pick your poison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownwardSlopingPlateau Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 1 hour ago, Pmax2020 said: This forum paints houses as being wholly unaffordable for the majority of people. Which isn’t true. Nah, there's one guy on this very forum who bought his house for cash. 😉🌱✔️🏡 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timm Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 (edited) Median annual earnings for full-time employees in the United Kingdom 2007: £24,043 Median annual earnings for full-time employees in the United Kingdom 2023: £34,963 Average price by type of property in Mar 2007; £178,636 - 7.42 x income Average price by type of property in Mar 2023: £281,913 - 8.06 x income So yes, properties were more affordable in 2007, but not by much. And just for fun: Average price by type of property in Mar 2009: £154,452 - 5.98 x income (25,806) Sources: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1002964/average-full-time-annual-earnings-in-the-uk/ https://landregistry.data.gov.uk/app/ukhpi/browse?from=2007-03-01&location=http%3A%2F%2Flandregistry.data.gov.uk%2Fid%2Fregion%2Funited-kingdom&to=2024-03-01&lang=en Edited April 13 by Timm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbob Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 3 hours ago, Pmax2020 said: Perhaps this is a Scottish thing, but nothing will convince me houses are more expensive for younger people today, than in 2007. In 2006 I got my first job earning a pathetic but not uncommon £10,000. It was an entry level job in a reputable company. A year later I was in a whopping £12,000. My wife to be was on similar. (We both had just graduated, don’t ask). The crappest flats in my town at that time were £65,000 - 70,000. So 6 or 7x income for me and many others. Today, minimum wage for 21 year olds equates to £24,000. In fact, work in Aldi / Tesco and The exact same flats in my town are now less than 3x income. Perfectly acceptable ex-local authority 2/3 bed terraced houses 4-5x income. Everyone says that about the supermarkets. "Oh I could leave here and earn more working at Aldi" Trouble is it's hard to get a 40 hours a week permanent contract from those jobs these days. Aldi are a rare breed in that they will pay you for your lunch break, but most minimum wage jobs don't, so that's 5 hours a week down already. Its easy to do the maths and say minimum wage equates to £24,000 but actually getting that many hours full time year round can be tricky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnno1167 Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 7 minutes ago, Timm said: Median annual earnings for full-time employees in the United Kingdom 2007: £24,043 Median annual earnings for full-time employees in the United Kingdom 2023: £34,963 Average price by type of property in Mar 2007; £178,636 - 7.42 x income Average price by type of property in Mar 2023: £281,913 - 8.06 x income So yes, properties were more affordable in 2007, but not by much. And just for fun: Average price by type of property in Mar 2020: £154,452 - 5.98 x income (25,806) Sources: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1002964/average-full-time-annual-earnings-in-the-uk/ https://landregistry.data.gov.uk/app/ukhpi/browse?from=2007-03-01&location=http%3A%2F%2Flandregistry.data.gov.uk%2Fid%2Fregion%2Funited-kingdom&to=2024-03-01&lang=en It’s too simplistic though . Average doesn’t mean anything of you happen to be born in Devon or Cornwall for example . Even a hovel is well beyond your wildest dreams before middle age on median salary . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70PC Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 Property transactions in 2007 were being done at unaffordable prices. Lenders subsequently landed in trouble and people lost their homes. ZIRP came to the rescue. We are back there without the prospect of a ZIRP remedy. The only difference is that lenders have shifted most of the pain and risk onto home owners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Angry Capitalist Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 3 hours ago, frederico said: Err rundown parts of Scotland ….. very attractive, maybe up and coming, gentrification, load up. Oh it’s always cold, raining, you have the crazies in power and they hate the English. I’m out. Lol. Echoes my sentiments. Did at one point consider moving to Scotland but the weather put me off. Now the commies are in charge there it's a definite no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbathpc Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 7 hours ago, Pmax2020 said: You could leave school, work in Tesco for 3 years till you’re on the 24k minimum wage for a 21 year old - and guess what - you could easily afford to buy a small flat / house in 95% of UK towns!! Someone just mentioned Dunfermline which I know relatively well. There are many houses/flats within 5 miles of there, for approx 3.5x minimum wage. It was infinitely harder for young people in 2006/2007. Source: Your arse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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