A.steve Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 46 minutes ago, Casual-observer said: You missed the general point. I don't trust any of the UK ruling establishment to be at all competent to run a bath...let alone competently gather, operate nor logistically support this conscript army. That's not withstanding they somehow miraculously turn around our heavily indebted service industry economy and turn it into some sort of war time powerhouse. We can barely support the Ukraine army, I'd sooner defect than be led by titans like Boris, Sunak or Starmer. I don't think I did. I recognised that conscripts would not necessarily be required to act as armed soldiers. That does not suggest I assumed a regime that instigates conscription would be a competent one. Incidentally, neither did it suggest any assessment about which forces would succeed in a conflict situation. My understanding of WWII is that, where Britain had an edge, it was because the British response was unpredictable... mainly because enemies found it difficult to assume British leadership was as irrational and incompetent as it seemed to be. If there were a league table for ineptitude - I'd like to think we could lead the world on that front Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sta100 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 (edited) 3 hours ago, petetong said: Many on here appear to be under the misapprehension that the UK is a world power with superb military and world class economy. To quote Peter Hitchens who recently said on TheTimes Radio show: "outside the south east the UK is a third world country with sleet". 😆 And many also seem to be under the impression that other countries can organise a p1ss up in a brewery, everyone thought Russia would blitz Ukraine within a couple of days and look at what happened. The reality is until the SHTF you don't know what's going to happen. Look at South Korea's Sewol disaster, US New Orleans, or even the gang problems in Sweden right now for examples of Countries getting thing seriously wrong. Look at the Covid responses for each Country. It happens everywhere. Edited January 29 by sta100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 Allegedly the yanks are sending more aerial-refuelling tankers to the Middle East, so should probably get ready to be conscripted to die in Iran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petetong Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 17 minutes ago, MarkG said: Allegedly the yanks are sending more aerial-refuelling tankers to the Middle East, so should probably get ready to be conscripted to die in Iran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regprentice Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 (edited) I dont really understand the Ukraine war. Close to a century after WW2 and were still fighting hand to hand in muddy trenches, gaining a few meters here, losing a few meters there. the Ukraine war has already lasted half as long as WW2 and despite fighting on only 1 front between 2 countries the west is running out of ammunition. Its completely insane. We've got threads on here talking about autonomous cars, robots that can build houses and AI taking everyone jobs....and yet war hasn't moved on at all since the Boer war (the first widespread use of the machine gun). I see the BBC and ITV have had glossy dramas in the last month about how technologically advanced and scary drones are (Vigil, Trigger Point) but when i actually see footage of a Ukrainian drone operator its just a teenager sat in an abandoned building staircase wearing PSVR goggles with a playstation controller in his hands. he's really just piloting a remote control toy with a grenade stuck to it. if you wanted to conscript my kids to work in an unsafe victorian linen mill or climb chimneys to be child victorian chimney sweeps i'd tell you to XXXX off... what makes TPTB think its ok to ask my kids to fight a war with Victorian weapons and tactics. Edited January 29 by regprentice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sta100 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 If people here got conscripted to make and repair drones for the war effort how many would really say no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsknot Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 5 minutes ago, regprentice said: I dont really understand the Ukraine war. Close to a century after WW2 and were still fighting hand to hand in muddy trenches, gaining a few meters here, losing a few meters there. the Ukraine war has already lasted half as long as WW2 and despite fighting on only 1 front between 2 countries the west is running out of ammunition. Its completely insane. We've got threads on here talking about autonomous cars, robots that can build houses and AI taking everyone jobs....and yet war hasn't moved on at all since the Boer war (the first widespread use of the machine gun). I see the BBC and ITV have had glossy dramas in the last month about how technologically advanced and scary drones are (Vigil, Trigger Point) but when i actually see footage of a Ukrainian drone operator its just a teenager sat in an abandoned building staircase wearing PSVR goggles with a playstation controller in his hands. he's really just piloting a remote control toy with a grenade stuck to it. if you wanted to conscript my kids to work in an unsafe victorian linen mill or climb chimneys to be child victorian chimney sweeps i'd tell you to XXXX off... what makes TPTB think its ok to ask my kids to fight a war with Victorian weapons and tactics. War involves killing people in a violent often bloody fashion. How exactly doyou think this is going to evolve into not being that? This is a genuine question because even the drone operator is killing people in a violent, bloody and painful manner, while living with the knowledge he is also being hunted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Liebenstein Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 15 hours ago, jiltedjen said: perhaps if they seriously tried to conscript the young without any fairness or ‘new deal’ it would lead to a huge march on London, including military regiments joining, and an even more drastic version of ‘making it fair’ than a new deal, but this time dictated by the young at to the leaders at gun-point - and brutal examples being made. I think there will eventually be an anti-boomer uprising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regprentice Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 (edited) 1 hour ago, Staffsknot said: War involves killing people in a violent often bloody fashion. How exactly doyou think this is going to evolve into not being that? This is a genuine question because even the drone operator is killing people in a violent, bloody and painful manner, while living with the knowledge he is also being hunted. i don't have a problem with killing people in a violent bloody manner. its just insane were still doing it on a one to one basis. For years across media, from the 70s onwards , people have assume the "next war" will start with countries parachuting in to seize key infrastructure like power stations and working out from those areas after key services are disabled. (from Red Dawn, to Call of Duty to Battlefield and so on) Russia has already implied the use of nuclear weapons in ukraine link Supposedly China, if not Russia, have already hacked our banks, the NHS, even our power stations link. Supposedly America and China are already developing genetically targeted bioweapons link Americas Director of National intelligence claimed, before covid, that China was developing "biologically enhanced super soldiers" link You've even got an american government teasing the existence of aliens and alien technology on earth link Teenagers today think theyre living on the cusp of some kind of science fiction future, then their government is going to send them to be stabbed and bleed to death in a frozen field in eastern europe. Edited January 29 by regprentice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Luc Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 2 hours ago, regprentice said: i don't have a problem with killing people in a violent bloody manner. its just insane were still doing it on a one to one basis. For years across media, from the 70s onwards , people have assume the "next war" will start with countries parachuting in to seize key infrastructure like power stations and working out from those areas after key services are disabled. (from Red Dawn, to Call of Duty to Battlefield and so on) Russia has already implied the use of nuclear weapons in ukraine link Supposedly China, if not Russia, have already hacked our banks, the NHS, even our power stations link. Supposedly America and China are already developing genetically targeted bioweapons link Americas Director of National intelligence claimed, before covid, that China was developing "biologically enhanced super soldiers" link You've even got an american government teasing the existence of aliens and alien technology on earth link Teenagers today think theyre living on the cusp of some kind of science fiction future, then their government is going to send them to be stabbed and bleed to death in a frozen field in eastern europe. Maybe 'they' TPTB don't want to wreck all the infrastructure we have just to cull some useless eaters. Why would they risk their own health and prosperity to cull the herd when you can just give them a gun and have them kill each other off in some frozen field no one gives a ****** about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 Who would waste time and energy trying to protect scum island that is the UK Gen z fight for your HMO and Zero hours job. 🤣 Lol best learn Ruskie at least their women look nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandwiches33 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 In these modern times large land warfare is outdated and ends much as it does in Ukraine with a large dirty stalemate. Modern warfare is called 5th generational warfare where you fight using things like finance, resources, cyber attack, propaganda terrorism etc. Fifth-generation warfare - Wikipedia We are already in a war across multiple fronts but not necessarily kinetic action. If you do engage in actual war it has to be small special forces operations for maximum effect. I cannot see us getting involved in any large scale action as it would be the wrong strategy. If we do it just shows the true incompetence of our leadership and will lead to ruin. I am sure our military knows this and this talk of conscription probably has other motives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiltedjen Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 Historically they managed to send people with horrible lives to war, via propaganda/jingoism/brainwashing/shame. people who lived in real poverty. for some it was sold as a way to see the world a bit, and go on an adventure. populations can be quite easy to direct/influence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staintunerider Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 22 hours ago, The Angry Capitalist said: Lol. Grow up. Stop watching BBC news. Why would the Russians invade Britain? I agree they have 0 interest in doing so.... As my German mate said you live on this cold wet island in the north atlantic that why we call you Inselaffen (Island Apes)...it's basically not very appealing as a place is it....The Germans didnt even really want to in ww2 it was only to topple us and knock us off the board.........really not sure why the Romans bothered.....well actually I do ..Conquest was part of the Roman psyche.....the Anglo Saxons from northern Germany and southern scandinavia took advantage after the romans cleared off...and then of course William the Conqueror.....it was prob more appealing back then... For the Russians it must be of no interest whatsoever when you look at the resource rich nation they are.... Invading a country and holding it down is a right PITA and you wouldnt want to do that unless there was some big big incentive.... And what these folk forget is to invade the Uk they would already have taken over Europe Germany and France etc....and I'm pretty sure they are not interested in those either....and France and the Uk are nuclear powers There was an article a while back the biggest future possible threat to Germany is the Poles who are rearming and building out their forces big time....some one did a war game analysis and reckoned even right now the Poles would run all over Germany in very little time.... I do recall Putin years and years ago made a joke about the size of our armed forces and it's actually probably worse because how many of them are actual real combat troops ? A third/half ? tops I would say....out of what a total of 60k which is about the size of the BEF back in ww1 before conscription.... Without conscription we are nothing more than a token force....and i don't believe you could conscript and get the calibre of soldiers you need today unlike they did in ww2..... They reckon conscription wouldnt wash in the USA today either....there is no stomach for it.... They simply will not find the volunteers en masse like they did in ww2 or those happy to be conscripted...Vietnam i reckon casts a long shadow has made that all but impossible.... Its also a bit like the boxing analogy anyway.. "its not about how hard you can hit its how hard you can be hit" The west simply isnt up for it well excep the loud mouth politicians but they won't be donning uniforms will they now ? Conscription if they ever tried it might just be the wake up call a lot of folk need to decide enough is enough with our political class...and want something more.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumble bee Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 (edited) UK Conscription - could start to look far more realistic, thanks to the US ... It could become a 'necessity' for Britain to get involved One British MP warned that the escalation in the volatile region also affects the UK, saying that it could become a 'necessity' for Britain to get involved. 'It's important that the British people understand this: This is one example of many of the new era of insecurity that we've entered and that we need to prepare for,' said former Defence Select Committee chairman and soldier Tobias Ellwood. Such concerns come amid fears that the wars in Europe and the Middle East could proliferate into something even larger, with former US president Donald Trump warning on Sunday: 'we are on the brink of World War Three'. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13018111/ww3-drone-stike-death-soldiers-jordan-trump-warning-biden-response-putin.html Edited January 29 by bumble bee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbob Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 What country do you think of when you think of somewhere under an imminent threat from Russia? That's right - Australia https://www.skynews.com.au/insights-and-analysis/are-we-ready-for-an-allout-war-with-russia-australia-must-consider-mandating-national-service-to-build-our-trained-reserve-while-we-still-have-time/news-story/e46d556f4af8ae38c14a8ce22301675f Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandwiches33 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 They could pass conscription if they staged a 911 style event. They could do something heinious or allow it to happen as a pretext. Maybe this is to test the mood for such a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiggerUK Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 I can just see the raw recruit sergeant trainer and his luvverley junior NCO's greeting the fresh conscripts off the coach at the barracks. "OK you beautiful people, welcome".... "all of you signed up to WFH get back on the coach double quick"..... Followed by a two hour trigger warning lecture for all those left. A conscript army of skint little people, that's what we need..._ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regprentice Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 38 minutes ago, DiggerUK said: I can just see the raw recruit sergeant trainer and his luvverley junior NCO's greeting the fresh conscripts off the coach at the barracks. "OK you beautiful people, welcome".... "all of you signed up to WFH get back on the coach double quick"..... Followed by a two hour trigger warning lecture for all those left. A conscript army of skint little people, that's what we need..._ They might not have a choice, apparently more than 3/4 of Gen-z dont meet the entry requirements of the army (in the US anyway) A 2020 Pentagon study found that 77% of Gen Z were ineligible for military service without a waiver. Reasons for this included being overweight, drug and alcohol abuse, and medical, physical, and mental health issues. apparently one of the most common complaints of gen-Zers who did join up was "bodyshaming". https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/gen-z-american-army-soldiers-complain-food-pay-tiktok-2023-12%3famp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumble bee Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 Everyone can find something ... THE FULL LIST OF CONDITIONS WHICH MAY EXEMPT YOU FROM JOINING THE ARMY Back problems History of spinal surgery Structural abnormalities of the spine and spinal cord History of chronic or recurrent back pain Blood diseases Sickle Cell disease Congenital spherocytosis Thalassemia Hepatitis B or C Leukaemia or malignant lymphoma Disorders resulting in abnormal coagulation Bone or joint problems Knee injuries and chronic knee pain History of bone fractures Shoulder problems resulting in functional limitations or restrictions of movement Loss of a limb Clubfoot (including past surgery) Chronic joint diseases such as ankylosing spondylitis, psoriatic arthritis, rheumatoid arthritis or gout Hypermobility syndrome Cardiovascular problems Diagnosis of heart disease Bicuspid aortic valve Symptomatic or medication-suppressed abnormal heart rhythms Cardiomyopathy Hypertension Dental Health Poor dental hygiene, including needing the removal of teeth or ongoing treatment Ear problems Current perforation of ear drum Chronic ear diseases like cholesteatoma Presence of eardrum 'grommets' Deafness or hearing problems Eye problems Chronic eye conditions such as glaucoma, keratoconus and retinitis pigmentosa Damage to the eyelids affecting vision Chronic conjunctivitis Reduction of corrected vision in one eye below army entry standards Diplopia Gastrointestinal problems Chronic abdominal diseases like Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis Significant history of dyspepsia Loss of spleen (splenectomy) Active Haemorrhoids Kidney and Urologic problems Congenital kidney diseases/anomalies History of kidney problems such as malfunction of a kidney or kidney stones Recurrent renal colic History of urinary incontinence History of genital infections Neurological disorders Epilepsy History of head injury with neurological sequalae Migraines Multiple sclerosis Psychiatric problems Schizophrenia Obsessive-compulsive disorder Alcohol or drug dependence Personality Disorders Eating Disorders Anxiety and Depression Post-traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) History of deliberate self-harm or suicide attempts Respiratory problems Asthma (depending on severity and need for treatment) Chronic lung disease such as emphysema, bronchiectasis or cystic fibrosis Tuberculosis Skin problems If you suffer from skin conditions such as severe widespread psoriasis or dermatitis. However, if it's mild or moderate dermatitis it may be considered Other conditions Being an organ transplant recipient Food allergy requiring you to avoid some foods in your diet due to allergy or intolerance (not because you don't like it) Raynaud's phenomenon Diabetes Some medical conditions requiring long-term medication or replacement therapy Moderate or severe Covid infection https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-13004797/All-conditions-illnesses-rule-serving-Army.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staintunerider Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 Big Wednesday....avoiding the draft... The first Jan Michael Vincent beat his own leg with a stick before going in and donning a leg brace and said he had a perpetual swollen leg.... Gary Busey did a class act of being as nutty as a fruit cake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staintunerider Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 13 minutes ago, regprentice said: They might not have a choice, apparently more than 3/4 of Gen-z dont meet the entry requirements of the army (in the US anyway) A 2020 Pentagon study found that 77% of Gen Z were ineligible for military service without a waiver. Reasons for this included being overweight, drug and alcohol abuse, and medical, physical, and mental health issues. apparently one of the most common complaints of gen-Zers who did join up was "bodyshaming". https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/gen-z-american-army-soldiers-complain-food-pay-tiktok-2023-12%3famp yeah but govt change the rules when it suits them....they will drop the bar and keep dropping it... The only way to deal with them is en masse tell them NO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staintunerider Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 1 hour ago, Gbob said: What country do you think of when you think of somewhere under an imminent threat from Russia? That's right - Australia https://www.skynews.com.au/insights-and-analysis/are-we-ready-for-an-allout-war-with-russia-australia-must-consider-mandating-national-service-to-build-our-trained-reserve-while-we-still-have-time/news-story/e46d556f4af8ae38c14a8ce22301675f Australia have you lost your freaking minds ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiggerUK Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 "apparently one of the most common complaints of gen-Zers who did join up was "body shaming"." (regprentice) Phew, that's my ticket to Blighty bought and paid for then..._ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyh Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 On 28/01/2024 at 16:19, The Angry Capitalist said: Lol. Grow up. Stop watching BBC news. Why would the Russians invade Britain? Why would Russia invade Poland, Finland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia or Norway? None of these have threatened to attack or invade Russia. If Ukraine capitulates, and one of these non puppet Nato counties is invaded by Russia next, all bets are off. If then we dont send troops , Russia will know we are weak the our simp men dont have will to fight, and they will invade. They are already amassing 50k proxy fighting age men a year on our shores, that we just let in, invasion by stealth. Each ones "boat fees" paid by the Russians. How else do they get the money?, in their counties they earn like £500 a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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