No one would insure our £105k Range Rover, so we had to sell it

[HousePriceTooHigh]

 

[steve99]

8 hours ago, andrewwk said:

this has got to be the most first world-y problem I have seen in a while.

More of a 1%'y problem.  Who else would spend so much on transport.?   Besides '' Ilford in east London''  tells us much of what we need to know. . 

I've been to a few 3rd world countries and the people who can afford newish cars are driving things like this (with all their ill gotten lucre).  We never saw so many Lexus 4wds as we did in Cambodia (and that was before the Chinese gangsters moved in)

[zugzwang]

1 hour ago, Johnno1167 said:

Horrible vehicles .. ugly as sin with the aerodynamics of a breeze blocks. And the chavvy evoque, what were they thinking ! 

as a kid, always chuckled at the classic joke .. “what’s the difference between range rover and hedgehog ?””..

any guesses ?

The hedgehog's pricks are on the outside?

[Jinxed]

I keep my car in a garage, hardly ever use it, I have 11 years no claims bonus with the same insurance company, and out of the blue, they slapped a 63% increase on last month. 

I'll be cancelling it soon.

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by Jinxed

[MarkG]

Someone from Toronto claimed it's similar there: not necessarily that cars are uninsurable, but car theft has exploded with these new electronic 'key' systems that are easy to crack.

[Stewy]

6 hours ago, Jinxed said:

I keep my car in a garage

Hope it's not an EV, risking your life doing that. 

[Ballyk]

1 hour ago, Stewy said:

Hope it's not an EV, risking your life doing that. 

If your other car's a Range Rover

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

15 hours ago, A.steve said:

I wonder how difficult it would be to provide an after market solution to this?

I don't really understand it.

I think the videos show fairly simply how the theft is taking place. An aerial is used to extend the range of the key from inside the house to close to the car which triggers the unlock.

Therefore you have a number of possibilities.

i) Block the key signal when it is in your house - putting it in a faraday cage (metal biscuit tin with the lid on) should do this.

ii) Make it so the key only emits the signal on a button push. I suppose this means you have to put your shopping down before being able to get into the car which is a major hurdle for the average range rover driver. They will have to swap out all the key fobs to do this, but it is perfectly fixable.

I don't understand the insurance issues. For example third party insurance is mandatory I think, but theft insurance isn't. So why don't the insurance companies refuse to ensure for theft but then do all the mandatory stuff ?

Anyway to me they are pretty ridiculous cars. Expensive and the reliability seems dismal. Maybe this will end them.

If anyone is idiot enough to afford the fuel costs of these things paying more in insurance must be trivial.

 

[Bear Necessities]

9 hours ago, Stewy said:

Hope it's not an EV, risking your life doing that. 

EVs combust far far less frequently than ICE cars per capita.
It's not even close.

[debtlessmanc]

collegaue lives in Sheffield, tells me someone has tried to steal his motor bike again. Apparently battery angle grinders will go through any chain, even ones that cost £100's. This time he found it chain off lying down. Presumably the idiot had not realised if you drop it its almost impossible for one person to pick it up.

It has a tracker, usually they hide the bike somewhere nearby for a few days to see if someone tracks it. if not gets knicked for parts.

He has given up reporting it, the police not interested unless someone knifed etc.

[Stewy]

29 minutes ago, Bear Necessities said:

EVs combust far far less frequently than ICE cars per capita.
It's not even close.

Wait until they've reached an equivalent age. 

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

51 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

collegaue lives in Sheffield, tells me someone has tried to steal his motor bike again. Apparently battery angle grinders will go through any chain, even ones that cost £100's. This time he found it chain off lying down. Presumably the idiot had not realised if you drop it its almost impossible for one person to pick it up.

It has a tracker, usually they hide the bike somewhere nearby for a few days to see if someone tracks it. if not gets knicked for parts.

He has given up reporting it, the police not interested unless someone knifed etc.

Normally I think they stick it in a container. Anything made completely of metal would block any high frequency rf emissions in or out.

Once it is inside you could dismantle it at your leisure. If you knew what you were doing you could find out where the tracker was fairly easily. There cannot be too many places to hide it on a bike.

[nightowl]

6 hours ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

 

i) Block the key signal when it is in your house - putting it in a faraday cage (metal biscuit tin with the lid on) should do this.

ii) Make it so the key only emits the signal on a button push. I suppose this means you have to put your shopping down before being able to get into the car which is a major hurdle for the average range rover driver. They will have to swap out all the key fobs to do this, but it is perfectly fixable..

Even if the key is in a faraday cage, or only broadcasts when pressed theatre same signal radiates in all directions and can be heard by a listening device.   Once  snooped on the signal can be replicated on demand and the car locks can't tell it's a fake signal or original key fob.  

Starting the engine is trickier as the original key has to be in the dash or very close as it's paired with the car, and that's harder to mimic - at a distance at least.

[MarkG]

7 hours ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

I don't understand the insurance issues. For example third party insurance is mandatory I think, but theft insurance isn't. So why don't the insurance companies refuse to ensure for theft but then do all the mandatory stuff ?

No-one in their right mind is going to want to insure a 100k car without theft cover. Unless they're a billionaire, and then they probably self-insure.

It's easier for the insurance companies to just say 'no'.

[Bear Necessities]

2 hours ago, Stewy said:

Wait until they've reached an equivalent age. 

Nissan Leaf has been out since 2011, so the oldest of those are 12 years old which is quite a long time.
They don't combust anywhere near as often as petrol cars. even the old ones.

I appreciate that *perhaps* older cars might explode more often so you want to give it more time to compare, but when I say that the numbers aren't even close:

"A recent study by US insurer AutoinsuranceEZ found that...
Petrol cars had 1,529.9 fires per 100,000 sales...
EVS had 25.1 fires per 100.000." 

so 1500 vs 25.  I know which I'd rather have parked in the garage. (I don't have a garage)

That's orders of magnitude fewer fires. 
Not that readers of the mail or express would think that was the case based on the b*llocks they are fed.

[FTB-house-hunter]

All they need to do is make sure the fob isn't sending a signal unless it has moved recently.  You plonk it inside your house and after 2 minutes it stops transmitting.  You pick it up again in the morning, it detects movement and starts to broadcast again.  Of course it won't stop them breaking into your house and lifting the keys.  I guess the solution is to be poor and drive a car nobody wants

[Stewy]

34 minutes ago, Bear Necessities said:

Nissan Leaf has been out since 2011, so the oldest of those are 12 years old which is quite a long time.
They don't combust anywhere near as often as petrol cars. even the old ones.

I appreciate that *perhaps* older cars might explode more often so you want to give it more time to compare, but when I say that the numbers aren't even close:

"A recent study by US insurer AutoinsuranceEZ found that...
Petrol cars had 1,529.9 fires per 100,000 sales...
EVS had 25.1 fires per 100.000." 

so 1500 vs 25.  I know which I'd rather have parked in the garage. (I don't have a garage)

That's orders of magnitude fewer fires. 
Not that readers of the mail or express would think that was the case based on the b*llocks they are fed.

Just wait until there's a few more Luton Airport Car Parks ✓✓

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

50 minutes ago, MarkG said:

No-one in their right mind is going to want to insure a 100k car without theft cover. Unless they're a billionaire, and then they probably self-insure.

It's easier for the insurance companies to just say 'no'.

Depends. You have  choice. Either no theft cover or sell a 100k car for half it's cost to you. All of a sudden taking the risk on the theft cover might look more attractive, especially if you use some additional anti theft measures that make it more secure.

Losing 50k on a car is not billionaire territory by a mile. People lose that sort of money on cars all the time, especially executive ones.

I agree it's unlikely that big insurers would want to change their systems around and come up with specialist insurance with exclusions just for one type of car, unless they could see some significant volume.

[LetsBuild]

1 hour ago, Bear Necessities said:

Nissan Leaf has been out since 2011, so the oldest of those are 12 years old which is quite a long time.
They don't combust anywhere near as often as petrol cars. even the old ones.

I appreciate that *perhaps* older cars might explode more often so you want to give it more time to compare, but when I say that the numbers aren't even close:

"A recent study by US insurer AutoinsuranceEZ found that...
Petrol cars had 1,529.9 fires per 100,000 sales...
EVS had 25.1 fires per 100.000." 

so 1500 vs 25.  I know which I'd rather have parked in the garage. (I don't have a garage)

That's orders of magnitude fewer fires. 
Not that readers of the mail or express would think that was the case based on the b*llocks they are fed.

Yeah but the petrol ones are fairly easy to put out, the EV cars are a whole different issue. I have seen a Tesla burning on the M6, the firemen were just watching it.

 

Stop making me side with Stewy!

[Bear Necessities]

1 hour ago, LetsBuild said:

Yeah but the petrol ones are fairly easy to put out, the EV cars are a whole different issue. I have seen a Tesla burning on the M6, the firemen were just watching it.

 

Stop making me side with Stewy!

Maybe, but would those fireman rather attend one EV fire on a shift or 60 petrol cars?

[Bear Necessities]

3 hours ago, Stewy said:

Just wait until there's a few more Luton Airport Car Parks ✓✓

Uh, you mean the Luton airport fire that was caused by a diesel vehicle and not an EV (despite what losers on twitter and facebook would have us all think)

chief fire officer Andy Hopkinson as saying the blaze appeared to have been accidental and "we don't believe it was an electric vehicle."

The Bedfordshire Fire and Rescue Service, which tackled the blaze, said in a statement online (archived here) it "can confirm the initial vehicle involved in the fire was a diesel car."

Rebecca Croft, communications manager for Bedfordshire county police, told the same to AFP in an October 12 email: "We can confirm the initial vehicle involved in the fire was a diesel car."

[Bear Necessities]

1 hour ago, LetsBuild said:

Yeah but the petrol ones are fairly easy to put out, the EV cars are a whole different issue. I have seen a Tesla burning on the M6, the firemen were just watching it.

 

Stop making me side with Stewy!

Teslas are bad I believe compared to other EV makers (although I don't have the stats to back that up) more recently other manufacturers are keen to show that their vehicles pass the nail test which is smashing the batteries with a nail repeatedly at high speed - nothing happens, it doesn't explode.  Not sure if that is an improvement on the Tesla architecture or not, but it's certainly not an insurmountable problem (I'm guessing even though petrol vehicles set on fire a lot more, it's probably still a lot less than it was in the 1910s and 1920s)

 

(although probably not as many in London as in Paris!)

[nero120]

3 hours ago, Bear Necessities said:

Uh, you mean the Luton airport fire that was caused by a diesel vehicle and not an EV (despite what losers on twitter and facebook would have us all think)

chief fire officer Andy Hopkinson as saying the blaze appeared to have been accidental and "we don't believe it was an electric vehicle."

The Bedfordshire Fire and Rescue Service, which tackled the blaze, said in a statement online (archived here) it "can confirm the initial vehicle involved in the fire was a diesel car."

Rebecca Croft, communications manager for Bedfordshire county police, told the same to AFP in an October 12 email: "We can confirm the initial vehicle involved in the fire was a diesel car."

"losers" huh? 

https://archive.ph/5SKol

Quote

Well, not according to one witness, who managed to snap a picture of the vehicle that was suspected of causing the fire, which looked very like a Range Rover Evoque. There was none of the thick black smoke you would expect with a diesel fire. Instead, the blaze was focused on the front left seat of the car under which – well, I never! – the lithium-ion battery happens to be located in some hybrid Range Rovers. 

https://www.landrover.com/landrovermagazine/hybrid-evoque-so-what-mhev

I guess the people you quoted weren't exactly lying!  Bit weird they just said that "the initial vehicle involved in the fire was a diesel car", yet failed to mention the model or what caused the fire to start in the first place. Trivial details I guess.

[Confusion of VIs]

10 hours ago, Stewy said:

Wait until they've reached an equivalent age. 

Lots of 10yr old Teslas around and they don't seem to be catching fire. 

But maybe they will only be 10x rather than 20x less likely rather to catch fire when they get old.

15 minutes ago, nero120 said:

"losers" huh? 

https://archive.ph/5SKol

https://www.landrover.com/landrovermagazine/hybrid-evoque-so-what-mhev

I guess the people you quoted weren't exactly lying!  Bit weird they just said that "the initial vehicle involved in the fire was a diesel car", yet failed to mention the model or what caused the fire to start in the first place. Trivial details I guess.

No just more BS. 

The number plate of the car was visible in the CCTV and according to DVLA it was a standard diesel. Just like the Land Rover that caught fire and burnt down a car park in Liverpool in 2018

Land Rover Fire Sparks Massive Blaze That Destroys 1,400 Vehicles  

 

 

[nero120]

31 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

No just more BS. 

The number plate of the car was visible in the CCTV and according to DVLA it was a standard diesel. Just like the Land Rover that caught fire and burnt down a car park in Liverpool in 2018

Land Rover Fire Sparks Massive Blaze That Destroys 1,400 Vehicles  

So provide the link then, otherwise STFU. In any case, EV fires are far harder to extinguish than regular ICB fires (that are mostly caused by the 12v battery in any case, lol). Diesel is not particularly flammable under normal pressure.

"Investigators think the fire started in a Land Rover, and it’s thought to be accidental." - is that it?! Anyways sounds like the point you are trying to make is "ICBs catch fire too!!" lol ok.