mynamehere Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) We’ve been at it for ages. We’ve been making animals extinct for over 10000 years. today vast majority of large animals alive are bred solely for farming It’s deep in human culture, the really isn’t any real actual debate about whether to change it. Some token noise but nobody goes to war to stop whale farming. its a tragedy but what can you do? how many countries on earth would sacrifice any amount of gdp for animal protection? Edited October 22, 2023 by mynamehere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smith Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 4 hours ago, scottbeard said: Who thinks that?! It's impossible. No one thinks that. Lots of people think that. This is why they describe population decline as "catastrophic". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARTINX9 Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Smith said: Lots of people think that. This is why they describe population decline as "catastrophic". Even if the global population halved it would still be double what it was in 1950. How did the world cope back then with this catastrophic shortage of people? Climate change is also described as catastrophic - I dare say having four times as many humans as a century ago is potentially a driver of man made climate change perhaps?! Edited October 23, 2023 by MARTINX9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smith Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 3 hours ago, MARTINX9 said: Even if the global population halved it would still be double what it was in 1950. How did the world cope back then with this catastrophic shortage of people? Climate change is also described as catastrophic - I dare say having four times as many humans as a century ago is potentially a driver of man made climate change perhaps?! Totally agree. Still waiting for a meaningful answer to the question I posed above, from those who regard population decline as a bad thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trampa501 Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 13 hours ago, 24gray24 said: This is an economic model, not a demographic one. The end game is the economic model changes to a declining population mode. I don't think many countries have increasing birth rates these days, growth is just better health care increasing the population by keeping people alive. The declining birth rate is a major feature of western societies. What is also the case is that migrant families from high birth countries, also over time reduce the size of their families. But will there be a corresponding decline in countries that remain as failed states (often bombed to bits by foreign intervention)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Smith said: Totally agree. Still waiting for a meaningful answer to the question I posed above, from those who regard population decline as a bad thing. Surely the argument is that percipitous fall is a bad thing? Economically, you want lots of young people, no kids and a decent chunk of older prople (which would clealy not be the case for long). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mynamehere Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 3 hours ago, Trampa501 said: The declining birth rate is a major feature of western societies. What is also the case is that migrant families from high birth countries, also over time reduce the size of their families. But will there be a corresponding decline in countries that remain as failed states (often bombed to bits by foreign intervention)? Interestingly there are quite a few examples of less peaceful countries with low fertility rates, Iran, Bosnia, Lebanon, Thailand. The common feature seems to be relatively good education for women. Another option... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbeard Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 15 hours ago, Smith said: Lots of people think that. This is why they describe population decline as "catastrophic". Link to these people's comments..?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 19 hours ago, Smith said: Lots of people think that. This is why they describe population decline as "catastrophic". It's bad news in the context of a currency/economic system that assumes constant expansion of production and consumption and has 'borrowed forward' based on that. However, such a system was always flawed and ultimately unworkable. Also, demographics play a part. As the population shrinks you get bulges of older age groups vs fewer younger, productive people .. Making for a problem to support the older non-productive part of the population who if anything, require more services. That is something needing grappling with during a transition. One solution would be to mandate that people do more to provide for themselves in later life by saving more in their pensions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 High population is beneficial to those with a vested interest in high foot fall......no business will open up a supermarket where few people will visit.....no telecom company will provide 4G where few potential customers there to purchase...... corporations love people, it is the people that are not that keen on more people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70PC Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 15 minutes ago, winkie said: High population is beneficial to those with a vested interest in high foot fall......no business will open up a supermarket where few people will visit.....no telecom company will provide 4G where few potential customers there to purchase...... corporations love people, it is the people that are not that keen on more people. Yes and also governments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smith Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 5 hours ago, scottbeard said: Link to these people's comments..?. See one above! And others agreeing. And many more on various threads where this has been raised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 13 minutes ago, 70PC said: Yes and also governments. True......more people the more tax collected, landlords love people......very many of those that make from people do not live amongst the people they make from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheResponsibleHouseBuyer Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 I said about overpopulation early on in this forums and in public debate with colleagues etc and just get ignored. I've given up at this point. When you discuss all the major issues facing us right now all can be solved by reducing population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, TheResponsibleHouseBuyer said: I said about overpopulation early on in this forums and in public debate with colleagues etc and just get ignored. I've given up at this point. When you discuss all the major issues facing us right now all can be solved by reducing population. Who are you planning to cull? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 12 hours ago, Trampa501 said: The declining birth rate is a major feature of western societies. What is also the case is that migrant families from high birth countries, also over time reduce the size of their families. But will there be a corresponding decline in countries that remain as failed states (often bombed to bits by foreign intervention)? Declining birth rate because mothers want or need to work......very many have to pay for expensive preschool and after school childcare..... competition high for best jobs, private education is high and so is after school extra lessons to keep on top of what is expected......sit back, relax and enjoy the ride.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheResponsibleHouseBuyer Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: Who are you planning to cull? Just doing my bit by having no kids lol. If everyone stuck with 1 or 2 kids we'd be okay i guess. China's a bit different as they need younger bodies to fill in slave labour in their factories, probably why the 1 child policy failed. Problem is places like Africa et al when 1 child is no enough. I mean why the hell would anyone living in a hellhole have a child is beyond me. Edited October 23, 2023 by TheResponsibleHouseBuyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, TheResponsibleHouseBuyer said: Just doing my bit by having no kids lol. If everyone stuck with 1 or 2 kids we'd be okay i guess. China's a bit different as they need younger bodies to fill in slave labour in their factories, probably why the 1 child policy failed. Problem is places like Africa et al when 1 child is no enough. I mean why the hell would anyone living in a hellhole have a child is beyond me. They need their kids in poor places, their kids are currency......you old and alone with no family are as good as dead.....no social system to support you, all you have is your kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheResponsibleHouseBuyer Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 Just now, winkie said: They need their kids in poor places, their kids are currency......you old and alone with no family are as good as dead.....no social system to support you, all you have is your kids. And the turnout rate for their kids i.e one that makes it to Oxford, Cambridge Educated / Developed World and becomes a multibillionaire success hero or just getting by like we are is practically 0%. The rest of them and most end up joining gangs, terrorist groups, stealing/robbing and/or murdering etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelims Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 11 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: Who are you planning to cull? He is going to lead by example Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, TheResponsibleHouseBuyer said: And the turnout rate for their kids i.e one that makes it to Oxford, Cambridge Educated / Developed World and becomes a multibillionaire success hero or just getting by like we are is practically 0%. The rest of them and most end up joining gangs, terrorist groups, stealing/robbing and/or murdering etc. I would not agree.....depends on the family, do they have a father in their lives......kids without fathers in their lives, look for the wrong kind of destructive role model..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 19 minutes ago, TheResponsibleHouseBuyer said: I said about overpopulation early on in this forums and in public debate with colleagues etc and just get ignored. I've given up at this point. When you discuss all the major issues facing us right now all can be solved by reducing population. Demographics trends point to a shrinking global population starting towards 2050. It's already falling precipitously in Western countries, only propped up by mass immigration. Not enough for the WEF though - I suspect their members want a global population of however few hundred million are going to absolutely need to exist in order to provide the goods and services that they will want to consume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petetong Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 Well the earth will do the culling for us at some point, pity the natural world will be completely f*cked by then. Biodiversity and natural environment has been decimated in the UK over the last 25 years, even Attenborough and Packham have come out and said we need population control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 1 hour ago, TheResponsibleHouseBuyer said: Just doing my bit by having no kids lol. If everyone stuck with 1 or 2 kids we'd be okay i guess. China's a bit different as they need younger bodies to fill in slave labour in their factories, probably why the 1 child policy failed. Problem is places like Africa et al when 1 child is no enough. I mean why the hell would anyone living in a hellhole have a child is beyond me. People living in hellholes need lots of children to be sure someone will look after them in their old age. If people really want to reduce the global population, the most effective way is lifting the poorest people in the world out of absolute poverty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbeard Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Smith said: See one above! And others agreeing. And many more on various threads where this has been raised. Where?? All I can see are posts noting that businesses and governments like population growth, not any actual posters who support it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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