debtlessmanc Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 6 minutes ago, msi said: to you maybe...plenty of your fellow forum buddies disagree. oh last time I checked, I wasn't running the world despite the usual conspiracy theories and blood libels so no need to be a douche about it. I see not a (wo)man of action then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msi Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, Pebbles said: You mentioned immigration first not me. Stop putting words into my mouth. I don't think it is an immigration problem. I think everyone should have a co2 allowance. An immigrant that goes home to India to see parents emits the same co2 with the same environmental damage as someone who goes on holiday to the same place. As stated I would have a co2 allowance. You spend it on a Ferrari that's fine you spend it on a child that is also fine however a child is so co2 expensive that you would probably be living with no foreign travel and no heating if you blew your budget on 3 of them. Also if you needed high co2 healthcare in the future that is unfortunate..... for you. After all a kilo of co2 does the same damage regardless of why it was emitted. I mentioned how these threads degenerate into immigration rants...and you oblige. Do you remember posting Quote But you try having a reasoned debate on population control and immigration (yes immigrants statistically have more children and take more flights to see their families.. You then realise that you are caught so now back track to some hair brained C02 trading angle, yet your previous posts on CO2 have all denegrated to StOp ImMiGrAnTs. (Forum searches are fun!) Thanks for proving my point...you've censured this thread as the OP feared. There's no point feeding your drooling any further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debtlessmanc Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, PeanutButter said: Interesting question. Cultural colonisation? How to convince people that the very edicts of their religious texts are to be cast aside...? I've been wondering what impact we'll see from Bill Gates' GMO mosquitoes in the next few years, as the main victims of malaria are under-5s. Will there be a baby boom, or will people realise they don't need to have 12 children in the hope that 6 will survive and act as their pensions? Only time will tell. During Trump's administration I believe they forced NGOs to remove any support for contraception in developing countries, a particularly brutal form of controlling women, but certainly in line with Republican fundamentalist Christian beliefs. Well that is the problem isnt it? A bunch of white people turning up and telling you your cherished religion is wrong about procreation or womens non rights wont go down well, the backward looking and the liberal left are united in perceiving it as racist - its pretty much what the war in afghanistan was about. i dont know the answer but uncomfortable as it might seem i am afraid i feel people should feel the consequences of their actions. Edited October 10, 2023 by debtlessmanc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msi Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 5 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said: I see not a (wo)man of action then? do you want me to rule the world....or is that the usual libels you like to spout? 1 minute ago, debtlessmanc said: Well that is the problem isnt it? A bunch of white people turning up and telling you your cherished religion is wrong about procreation or womens non rights wont go down well, the backward looking and the liberal left are united in perceiving it as racist - its pretty much what the war in afghanistan was about. as @PeanutButter stated..you may want to save that self serving righteous indigation for the Right wing evangelical churches that influence foreign policy. Should be easy, bunch of white people turning up and telling them their cherished religion is wrong eh... Since you proved my very first point, I'll leave this thread to descend into the usual mire... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pebbles Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 11 minutes ago, PeanutButter said: Interesting question. Cultural colonisation? How to convince people that the very edicts of their religious texts are to be cast aside...? I've been wondering what impact we'll see from Bill Gates' GMO mosquitoes in the next few years, as the main victims of malaria are under-5s. Will there be a baby boom, or will people realise they don't need to have 12 children in the hope that 6 will survive and act as their pensions? Only time will tell. During Trump's administration I believe they forced NGOs to remove any support for contraception in developing countries, a particularly brutal form of controlling women, but certainly in line with Republican fundamentalist Christian beliefs. Personally I have no issues with atheist cultural colonization. Even having religious beliefs myself. I seriously object to trump's and the republican right trying to force their own religious beliefs on others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debtlessmanc Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, msi said: do you want me to rule the world....or is that the usual libels you like to spout? as @PeanutButter stated..you may want to save that self serving righteous indigation for the Right wing evangelical churches that influence foreign policy. Should be easy, bunch of white people turning up and telling them their cherished religion is wrong eh... Since you proved my very first point, I'll leave this thread to descend into the usual mire... Wrong as always - you said improve women’s rights, I agreed. You say I don’t rule the world and flounce off. You really are the worst troll on this site. Edited October 10, 2023 by debtlessmanc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pebbles Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 8 minutes ago, msi said: I mentioned how these threads degenerate into immigration rants...and you oblige. Do you remember posting You then realise that you are caught so now back track to some hair brained C02 trading angle, yet your previous posts on CO2 have all denegrated to StOp ImMiGrAnTs. (Forum searches are fun!) Thanks for proving my point...you've censured this thread as the OP feared. There's no point feeding your drooling any further. Stop being pathetic. I am entirely consistent. I believe in limiting co2. I object to co2 released by flying which surprise surprise immigrants fly a lot. Just give everyone a budget stop immigrants visiting mum and Sally flying to Barbados. You try to turn everything into a 'gammon bashing' thread simply with some weird keyboard malfunction simply because you haven't got the intellect to put forward reasoned arguments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debtlessmanc Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, Pebbles said: Stop being pathetic. I am entirely consistent. I believe in limiting co2. I object to co2 released by flying which surprise surprise immigrants fly a lot. Just give everyone a budget stop immigrants visiting mum and Sally flying to Barbados. You try to turn everything into a 'gammon bashing' thread simply with some weird keyboard malfunction simply because you haven't got the intellect to put forward reasoned arguments. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debtlessmanc Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 9 minutes ago, Pebbles said: Personally I have no issues with atheist cultural colonization. Even having religious beliefs myself. I seriously object to trump's and the republican right trying to force their own religious beliefs on others. It’s not atheist it’s secular Humanist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sackboii Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 16 minutes ago, msi said: do you want me to rule the world Tempting.. Based on your manifesto I saw a month ago, it can't be any worse than now..! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Housepricecrash91 Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 Yeah overpopulation is definitely a thing, particularly in the south east of England, it's literally bursting at the seams at the moment. There's literally 9 EE blokes renting a 3 bed terraced house down the road from me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sackboii Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Housepricecrash91 said: There's literally 9 EE blokes renting a 3 bed terraced house down the road from me Where do they park their vans ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Housepricecrash91 Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, Sackboii said: Where do they park their vans ? They have about 8 mopeds plastered with Just Eats on the drive and a van parked on the road Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 1 hour ago, hurlerontheditch said: John Rhys-Davis (Gimli in Lord of the rings) raised this on Question time a few years ago and was booed by all and shut down. People dont seem to want to accept any mention of it. As someone who has worked in Africa and India, the drive for large families is still big in those parts of the world, in line with what @scottbeard said above As has been said above. the population rise, stabilisation and subsequent fall is already baked in. Mentioning it will make no difference. What could make a difference would be action to rapidly raise the standard of living across Africa to the level at which the population stabilises; a Marshall plan at a continental level. However, it won't come cheap and is not the sort of action the people complaining about population growth usually have in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbeard Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Housepricecrash91 said: They have about 8 mopeds plastered with Just Eats on the drive and a van parked on the road It must be pretty bad where they come from if being a Just Eat driver in a shared house of 9 Just Eat drivers is a better life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Housepricecrash91 Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 1 minute ago, scottbeard said: It must be pretty bad where they come from if being a Just Eat driver in a shared house of 9 Just Eat drivers is a better life Agreed, it wouldn't be my first choice in terms of lifestyle... Like you say, things must be bad back home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14stFlyer Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 1 hour ago, debtlessmanc said: The other issue is that earth support 8 billion but not well, the coastal regions will contract due to rising sea levels and currently we rely on depleting resources. I think your reply is a little blase. I did not want to come across as blasé Mr Manc. I recognise the issues of sustainability with a global population of 8 billion people. However, I think it is worth pointing out that views that the population of the planet will keep increasing exponentially are simply wrong and out of date. Indeed, the UN estimates online that you quoted are already out of date. Here is one piece of the puzzle - births at or beyond peak. note: this does not mean that population will instantly stop increasing, there will be a lag as the current children grow up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14stFlyer Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 19 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: What could make a difference would be action to rapidly raise the standard of living across Africa to the level at which the population stabilises Combine this with a “green”agenda of lowering carbon emissions with this development and I can agree with the concept. However, where does the money and drive for this come from? All I am seeing at the moment is more global conflict and selfish and inward looking states rather than the international cooperation and solidarity that would be needed to make this happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 26 minutes ago, Housepricecrash91 said: They have about 8 mopeds plastered with Just Eats on the drive and a van parked on the road So who is to blame EE workers, justeats or the people that buy it.....btw I have never had junk food delivered....doesn't make me wrong or right.......I doubt anyone working for a food delivery company could afford to have a family...not unless the state help towards it.😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Housepricecrash91 Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 8 minutes ago, winkie said: So who is to blame EE workers, justeats or the people that buy it.....btw I have never had junk food delivered....doesn't make me wrong or right.......I doubt anyone working for a food delivery company could afford to have a family...not unless the state help towards it.😉 Lack of affordable homes and the gig economy, so the government I guess? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightowl Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 45 minutes ago, 14stFlyer said: Combine this with a “green”agenda of lowering carbon emissions with this development and I can agree with the concept. However, where does the money and drive for this come from? All I am seeing at the moment is more global conflict and selfish and inward looking states rather than the international cooperation and solidarity that would be needed to make this happen. The trouble is such coordination of interfering with other countries or regions is imperialism by a different name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, btd1981 said: PS my point is not to spark a debate about population, but rather the fact that nobody even wants to talk about it, and attempting to do so results in censure. Whenever I've got to get through the Dartford tunnel and I'm stuck in congestion, I always daydream about a plague that wipes out 90% of the population. I once casually mentioned this daydream on a news comment section, and got banned LOL. I was half shocked at the militant moderation, especially as I was being obviously dramatic. Of course I don't want to see 90% of the population wiped out like that. But the point is, cancelling and censoring differing opinions as opposed to debating them seems to be the regressed state of affairs we live in today. There's an immaturity of human spirit in doing so. Mature and true principles of democracy, debate, and free speech have sadly decayed, and I'm not sure they'll return to the West in any meaningful way for a long time. There are pockets where reason and debate prevail still, and by engaging in those places, no matter how small, an inertia might build which, in time, might reverse the great regression. Hopefully. For example, The New Culture Forum are fairly small, but are growing, and if enough people endorsed, supported, and watched them, and other similar ideological groups, then free speech might again prevail. I'm sure voting for an alternative party to the main two could have a small effect in that direction, and in time change the political backdrop from the wishy-washy flavour we have today to something more palatable. Edited October 10, 2023 by Orb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debtlessmanc Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, 14stFlyer said: Combine this with a “green”agenda of lowering carbon emissions with this development and I can agree with the concept. However, where does the money and drive for this come from? All I am seeing at the moment is more global conflict and selfish and inward looking states rather than the international cooperation and solidarity that would be needed to make this happen. The problem is that despite what the orange throwing bunch would have you believe, the earth is realistically incapable of providing a good western standard of life to 8 billion people. to aircondition all their homes for a start. Its not an energy generation per say, its simply certain metals and materials that are needed, i gave the sample of solar energy requiring silver https://www.pv-magazine.com/2023/01/06/why-solar-needs-to-slim-down-on-silver/ these guys are assuming current energy consumption levels, extending western lifestyle to all would quadruple energy demand. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-05-17/how-much-air-conditioning-will-it-take-to-cool-the-world "Space cooling is also expected to overtake appliances as the largest single user of electricity in buildings globally by 2050. For this, 2,500 gigawatts of additional capacity is needed – the equivalent of the current total energy generation capacity of the US, Europe and India combined, according to the IEA." Edited October 10, 2023 by debtlessmanc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbeard Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 7 minutes ago, Orb said: Whenever I've got to get through the Dartford tunnel and I'm stuck in congestion, I always daydream about a plague that wipes out 90% of the population. I once casually mentioned this daydream on a news comment section, and got banned LOL. I was half shocked at the militant moderation, especially as I was being obviously dramatic. Of course I don't want to see 90% of the population wiped out like that. You can always daydream about better transport capacity If it's not cancelled by Mr Sunak of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 Just now, scottbeard said: You can always daydream about better transport capacity That was usually the conclusion I'd reach. And lo and behold, we have Silvertown 😄 But with a toll 😒 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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