Grant Shapps to send UK troops to Ukraine

[zugzwang]

5 hours ago, 70PC said:

The same was said about Ukraine.

Let me acquaint you with the facts.

1. Western arms and ammunition shortages.

In June this year, British Defense Secretary Wallace said that Western countries had run out of national stocks of weapons that could be supplied to Kiev. For his part, Biden admitted in July that the decision to give cluster munitions to Ukraine was made because conventional shells had been exhausted.

2. Public confidence in politicians in Europe and the U.S. has been lost.

Ratings of distrust towards the heads of state of the EU and the USA are at a historical peak. 57 percent disapprove of Biden’s actions, 69 percent disapprove of Macron’s actions, 72 percent disapprove of Scholz’s actions. The majority of people in the US and European countries oppose supplying arms to Ukraine.

3. The failure of the Kiev regime’s counteroffensive.

The Ukrainian military, backed by NATO, has suffered huge losses in equipment and manpower. The lack of any results has disappointed Western sponsors.

4. Economic problems of Europe and the USA.

Eurozone economies are in recession. Germany is forced to cut social payments to poor families because of the costs of militarization of the Kiev regime. France has reduced the number of aid recipients; food packages are no longer distributed to those in need, and reimbursing of the purchase of medicines has been cut back. International agencies, expecting deterioration of the financial situation of the United States in the next three years, downgraded the long-term investment rating of the United States.

5. Shortage of Ukrainian army personnel.

The Kiev regime is mobilizing men over 50 years old, as well as those with tuberculosis, viral hepatitis, HIV, and others. From October 1, 2023, women will also be enrolled in the military register. Nurses, doctors and pharmacists will be barred from leaving Ukraine.

6. Ukraine is bankrupt.

Ukraine’s GDP in 2022 fell by 30.4 percent—the worst result in the country’s history. Without help from Washington and Brussels, Kiev cannot fulfill its obligations to its citizens. Ukraine has lost its financial autonomy.

7. Demographic catastrophe in Ukraine.

More than 10.5 million people fled from Ukraine. Another 11.2 million residents of Crimea, Sevastopol, Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics, as well as Zaporizhya and Kherson regions made their choice to be with Russia. Since 2014, Ukraine has lost 53.7 percent of its population.

These 7 facts speak for themselves. Either the Kiev regime capitulates on Putin's terms or Ukraine will cease to exist as a state.

[Si1]

14 hours ago, Gbob said:

I think this could be coming to an end. The US just left out additional Ukraine aid from a measure to keep the government running until Nov. 17. Omitting $6 billion of aid to Ukraine, roughly a third of what has been requested by the White House. Both the House and Senate voted in favour of the measure. 

Perhaps they are realising tax payers don't want their hard earnt dollars funding a never ending meat grinder of human lives.

That was owing to the minority maga brigade agitating for a govt shut down. The Ukraine cash is still on the table. Democracy is messy sometimes.

 

14 hours ago, Lord D'arcy Pew said:

Ukraine is corrupt, not as bad as Russia, but still corrupt.  

https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2022

It has lost thousands of able bodied men due to this corruption.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66478422

It now needs foreign troops to fill the gaps.

 

Didn't anyone learn from Afghanistan?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/30/afghanistan-us-corruption-taliban

 

Yeah why didn't Russia learn from Afghanistan. Good question.

21 hours ago, Maghull Mike said:

I think they are out of ideas............Ukraine is part of it but BOY they F**KED up when they stole the Russian reserves. Suddenly in the blink of an eye the rest of the world saw what the bankrupt West had in store for them!

What was a slight drift to other settlement means is becoming a flood.

 

They massively over played a weak hand

You do realise that the biggest victims of American debt default are the people that hold the debt, don't you? How's the ruble doing btw against western currencies?

[Si1]

2 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

Let me acquaint you with the facts.

1. Western arms and ammunition shortages.

In June this year, British Defense Secretary Wallace said that Western countries had run out of national stocks of weapons that could be supplied to Kiev. For his part, Biden admitted in July that the decision to give cluster munitions to Ukraine was made because conventional shells had been exhausted.

2. Public confidence in politicians in Europe and the U.S. has been lost.

Ratings of distrust towards the heads of state of the EU and the USA are at a historical peak. 57 percent disapprove of Biden’s actions, 69 percent disapprove of Macron’s actions, 72 percent disapprove of Scholz’s actions. The majority of people in the US and European countries oppose supplying arms to Ukraine.

3. The failure of the Kiev regime’s counteroffensive.

The Ukrainian military, backed by NATO, has suffered huge losses in equipment and manpower. The lack of any results has disappointed Western sponsors.

4. Economic problems of Europe and the USA.

Eurozone economies are in recession. Germany is forced to cut social payments to poor families because of the costs of militarization of the Kiev regime. France has reduced the number of aid recipients; food packages are no longer distributed to those in need, and reimbursing of the purchase of medicines has been cut back. International agencies, expecting deterioration of the financial situation of the United States in the next three years, downgraded the long-term investment rating of the United States.

5. Shortage of Ukrainian army personnel.

The Kiev regime is mobilizing men over 50 years old, as well as those with tuberculosis, viral hepatitis, HIV, and others. From October 1, 2023, women will also be enrolled in the military register. Nurses, doctors and pharmacists will be barred from leaving Ukraine.

6. Ukraine is bankrupt.

Ukraine’s GDP in 2022 fell by 30.4 percent—the worst result in the country’s history. Without help from Washington and Brussels, Kiev cannot fulfill its obligations to its citizens. Ukraine has lost its financial autonomy.

7. Demographic catastrophe in Ukraine.

More than 10.5 million people fled from Ukraine. Another 11.2 million residents of Crimea, Sevastopol, Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics, as well as Zaporizhya and Kherson regions made their choice to be with Russia. Since 2014, Ukraine has lost 53.7 percent of its population.

These 7 facts speak for themselves. Either the Kiev regime capitulates on Putin's terms or Ukraine will cease to exist as a state.

Kyiv in 3 days dude.

[Grayphil]

10 hours ago, Big Orange said:

The Kremlin Gremlin shills here are getting desperate now...

I started reading this thread, and i shouldn't be surprised anymore.

This forum is full of Russian disinformation, im just surprised that they see HPC as a target.

But i have no doubt, that many posters on this forum are not in anyway genuine

 

 

[Maghull Mike]

The EMPIRE IS OVER

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/who-do-americans-think-they-are-charles-nenner-warns-its-over-they-cant-rule-world-anymore

[Grayphil]

1 hour ago, zugzwang said:

Let me acquaint you with the facts.

1. Western arms and ammunition shortages.

In June this year, British Defense Secretary Wallace said that Western countries had run out of national stocks of weapons that could be supplied to Kiev. For his part, Biden admitted in July that the decision to give cluster munitions to Ukraine was made because conventional shells had been exhausted.

2. Public confidence in politicians in Europe and the U.S. has been lost.

Ratings of distrust towards the heads of state of the EU and the USA are at a historical peak. 57 percent disapprove of Biden’s actions, 69 percent disapprove of Macron’s actions, 72 percent disapprove of Scholz’s actions. The majority of people in the US and European countries oppose supplying arms to Ukraine.

3. The failure of the Kiev regime’s counteroffensive.

The Ukrainian military, backed by NATO, has suffered huge losses in equipment and manpower. The lack of any results has disappointed Western sponsors.

4. Economic problems of Europe and the USA.

Eurozone economies are in recession. Germany is forced to cut social payments to poor families because of the costs of militarization of the Kiev regime. France has reduced the number of aid recipients; food packages are no longer distributed to those in need, and reimbursing of the purchase of medicines has been cut back. International agencies, expecting deterioration of the financial situation of the United States in the next three years, downgraded the long-term investment rating of the United States.

5. Shortage of Ukrainian army personnel.

The Kiev regime is mobilizing men over 50 years old, as well as those with tuberculosis, viral hepatitis, HIV, and others. From October 1, 2023, women will also be enrolled in the military register. Nurses, doctors and pharmacists will be barred from leaving Ukraine.

6. Ukraine is bankrupt.

Ukraine’s GDP in 2022 fell by 30.4 percent—the worst result in the country’s history. Without help from Washington and Brussels, Kiev cannot fulfill its obligations to its citizens. Ukraine has lost its financial autonomy.

7. Demographic catastrophe in Ukraine.

More than 10.5 million people fled from Ukraine. Another 11.2 million residents of Crimea, Sevastopol, Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics, as well as Zaporizhya and Kherson regions made their choice to be with Russia. Since 2014, Ukraine has lost 53.7 percent of its population.

These 7 facts speak for themselves. Either the Kiev regime capitulates on Putin's terms or Ukraine will cease to exist as a state.

*Kyiv 

 

Also the rest of your post is not factual either.

and it seems in your last paragraph you are cheerleading genocide. (You do you)

 

 

 

 

[Grayphil]

1 hour ago, Maghull Mike said:

The EMPIRE IS OVER

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/who-do-americans-think-they-are-charles-nenner-warns-its-over-they-cant-rule-world-anymore

Ah yes the ever reliable zero hedge.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_Hedge

About 15 years ago I believed some of the things Zero hedge said 

I didn't last long, I soon grew up and  realised it was complete horse sh....

[14stFlyer]

1 hour ago, zugzwang said:

More than 10.5 million people fled from Ukraine.

As refugees from an unprovoked invasion  

1 hour ago, zugzwang said:

Another 11.2 million residents of Crimea, Sevastopol, Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics, as well as Zaporizhya and Kherson regions made their choice to be with Russia.

All chose to part of an independent Ukraine by simple majority. 

Please stop the nonsense.  

[Up the spout]

2 hours ago, Grayphil said:

I started reading this thread, and i shouldn't be surprised anymore.

This forum is full of Russian disinformation, im just surprised that they see HPC as a target.

But i have no doubt, that many posters on this forum are not in anyway genuine

They're all over the internet - everywhere there is discussion is seen as a target by the KGB.

2 hours ago, Grayphil said:

Ah yes the ever reliable zero hedge.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_Hedge

About 15 years ago I believed some of the things Zero hedge said 

I didn't last long, I soon grew up and  realised it was complete horse sh....

It used to have some interesting and not completely insane articles, which made for fun reading but not to be taken too seriously. Now all the sh*te on there is cancerous and I've avoided it for years. 

To the several dumbos on here saying Ukraine is not making progress; it's slower than they would prefer, but they're making progress every damn day on multiple fronts. 

[no_dependent4663]

1 hour ago, Up the spout said:

 they're making progress every damn day on multiple fronts. 

where do you go to keep up with this?

[Up the spout]

24 minutes ago, no_dependent4663 said:

where do you go to keep up with this?

On YT I subscribe (for free) to the channels Warthog Defense, Jake Broe, Times Radio, Brandon Mitchell, Reporting from Ukraine, and Denys Davydov. The algos get the hint and suggest others too.

Some of the commentary is obviously biased, but you watch enough of them you can generally see through it - it's not like I have Fox or OAN on 24/7.

[no_dependent4663]

2 minutes ago, Up the spout said:

On YT I subscribe (for free) to the channels Warthog Defense, Jake Broe, Times Radio, Brandon Mitchell, Reporting from Ukraine, and Denys Davydov. The algos get the hint and suggest others too.

Some of the commentary is obviously biased, but you watch enough of them you can generally see through it - it's not like I have Fox or OAN on 24/7.

Cheers, appreciate it!

 

2 minutes ago, Up the spout said:

it's not like I have Fox or OAN on 24/7.

😂

[nero120]

7 hours ago, 14stFlyer said:

As refugees from an unprovoked invasion  

All chose to part of an independent Ukraine by simple majority. 

Please stop the nonsense.  

Ah clown world, I'm going to miss your ravings when you've collapsed and the harsh, blinding light of reality breaks down upon its inhabitants.

On second thought maybe I won't. Good riddance.

[70PC]

8 hours ago, zugzwang said:

Let me acquaint you with the facts.

1. Western arms and ammunition shortages.

In June this year, British Defense Secretary Wallace said that Western countries had run out of national stocks of weapons that could be supplied to Kiev. For his part, Biden admitted in July that the decision to give cluster munitions to Ukraine was made because conventional shells had been exhausted.

2. Public confidence in politicians in Europe and the U.S. has been lost.

Ratings of distrust towards the heads of state of the EU and the USA are at a historical peak. 57 percent disapprove of Biden’s actions, 69 percent disapprove of Macron’s actions, 72 percent disapprove of Scholz’s actions. The majority of people in the US and European countries oppose supplying arms to Ukraine.

3. The failure of the Kiev regime’s counteroffensive.

The Ukrainian military, backed by NATO, has suffered huge losses in equipment and manpower. The lack of any results has disappointed Western sponsors.

4. Economic problems of Europe and the USA.

Eurozone economies are in recession. Germany is forced to cut social payments to poor families because of the costs of militarization of the Kiev regime. France has reduced the number of aid recipients; food packages are no longer distributed to those in need, and reimbursing of the purchase of medicines has been cut back. International agencies, expecting deterioration of the financial situation of the United States in the next three years, downgraded the long-term investment rating of the United States.

5. Shortage of Ukrainian army personnel.

The Kiev regime is mobilizing men over 50 years old, as well as those with tuberculosis, viral hepatitis, HIV, and others. From October 1, 2023, women will also be enrolled in the military register. Nurses, doctors and pharmacists will be barred from leaving Ukraine.

6. Ukraine is bankrupt.

Ukraine’s GDP in 2022 fell by 30.4 percent—the worst result in the country’s history. Without help from Washington and Brussels, Kiev cannot fulfill its obligations to its citizens. Ukraine has lost its financial autonomy.

7. Demographic catastrophe in Ukraine.

More than 10.5 million people fled from Ukraine. Another 11.2 million residents of Crimea, Sevastopol, Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics, as well as Zaporizhya and Kherson regions made their choice to be with Russia. Since 2014, Ukraine has lost 53.7 percent of its population.

These 7 facts speak for themselves. Either the Kiev regime capitulates on Putin's terms or Ukraine will cease to exist as a state.

How would Russia get boots on the ground, missiles, ships, planes and logistics support to an Island 3,500 miles away in Nato? Russia are slowly losing ground to Ukraine despite road, rail, sea and air access up to and beyond the border.

[shlomo]

9 hours ago, Grayphil said:

I

This forum is full of Russian disinformation, im just surprised that they see HPC as a target.

No one here is pro-Russia we are basically a Housing forum sometimes we talk about economics and politics and things happening like the possibility of conscription 

Not everyone is a war monger and hopefully there will be peace soon, but not as long as both sides have people like you 

[zugzwang]

9 hours ago, Si1 said:

Kyiv in 3 days dude.

That was then, this is now.

[stuckmojo]

It's an asinine decision, entirel based on large scale industial lobbying. 

 

[Ballyk]

I think the UK is right not to declare war on Russia itself.

But also the West needs to give Ukraine all the help it can to defend itself, and re-take its illegally taken territories.  Russia is essentially consuming itself economically to continue with the war.  Compared to the West it was economcially poor and technologically backward to begin with, its only advantage being natural resources.  It is sacrificing a lot, meanwhile the West is sacrificing very little overall and has huge capacity to increase its military output.  

It is only a matter of time before Russia weakens itself mortally.

[zugzwang]

9 hours ago, Grayphil said:

*Kyiv 

 

Also the rest of your post is not factual either.

and it seems in your last paragraph you are cheerleading genocide. (You do you)

 

 

All of it's factual! NATO has been humiliated on the battlefield and crushed economically. American technology has been shown to be ruinously expensive, superfragile and largely unreliable.

 

[Ballyk]

7 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

All of it's factual! NATO has been humiliated on the battlefield and crushed economically. American technology has been shown to be ruinously expensive, superfragile and largely unreliable.

 

And Russia's technology is laughably outdated, literally falling apart.

As for for how they protect their planes...   🤣

 

[shlomo]

21 minutes ago, Ballyk said:

I think the UK is right not to declare war on Russia itself.

But also the West needs to give Ukraine all the help it can to defend itself, and re-take its illegally taken territories.  Russia is essentially consuming itself economically to continue with the war.  Compared to the West it was economcially poor and technologically backward to begin with, its only advantage being natural resources.  It is sacrificing a lot, meanwhile the West is sacrificing very little overall and has huge capacity to increase its military output.  

It is only a matter of time before Russia weakens itself mortally.

The winner will be China, Russia is losing a phenomenal amount of manpower and the west is running out of weapons, western stockpiles are nearly empty, the new generation of wokes do not have a clue about manufacturing 

@zugzwang

[Staffsknot]

23 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

All of it's factual! NATO has been humiliated on the battlefield and crushed economically. American technology has been shown to be ruinously expensive, superfragile and largely unreliable.

 

You really need to get a column for China Daily, they love people shouting nonsene loudly from lala land

[shlomo]

16 minutes ago, Ballyk said:

And Russia's technology is laughably outdated, literally falling apart.

As for for how they protect their planes...   🤣

 

If it works it works, as old engineers say 

[Ballyk]

8 minutes ago, shlomo said:

The winner will be China, Russia is losing a phenomenal amount of manpower and the west is running out of weapons, western stockpiles are nearly empty, the new generation of wokes do not have a clue about manufacturing 

@zugzwang

The point is that the West has the capacity to re-stock with weapons if we choose to commit the resources.  Russia is moving its whole country to war production, but that means everything else in the country falls apart.  And its manufacturing is extremely backward.

[Staffsknot]

If British trainers were moved to Ukraine it would be a small number of speialists and at extreme range / just over the border and probably with suitable protection from defences over the border.

These troops would not be fighting but providing quick turn around training.

This has been done for decades before in dangerous places its just some of you have just discovered it as its in papers.

Next an RN contigent providing safe passage in international waters is again something its built for. The Black Sea fleet is small and isolated and Turkey would likely take a role as would other nations.

Again it is telling who is screeching the houses down and talking absolute rubbish.

Also Mods does this beong in Current Afairs as sure as hell ain't economy.