Car insurance to ROCKET

[Jonesy74]

Mine is $1900 a year so I can’t really sympathise 😂

[Confusion of VIs]

50 minutes ago, dpg50000 said:

Councils seem to be doing everything they can to bilk money out of residents. Probably due to the large budget cuts they've had over the years from the Tories.

Did you write and ask if they had a justification for the massive increase?

That would be the large budget cuts.

They need to raise money and less than £1 a day for a residential parking space is a bargain. 

[bomberbrown]

51 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

That would be the large budget cuts.

They need to raise money and less than £1 a day for a residential parking space is a bargain. 

Can you explain why it costs nothing to park outside your home on the street in Nuneaton (or most other towns for that matter), compared to a London borough where it now costs £310?  Bearing in mind, it also cost nothing to park outside my London borough home up until about 2006 when this charge/permit came into effect.  

Edited August 30, 2023 by bomberbrown
Context

[bomberbrown]

1 hour ago, dpg50000 said:

Councils seem to be doing everything they can to bilk money out of residents. Probably due to the large budget cuts they've had over the years from the Tories.

Did you write and ask if they had a justification for the massive increase?

To be honest, no I didn’t, because I figured it would be futile. They’ll just give the old flannel about air pollution etc.  

Actually, you’ve pricked my ears, I might very well just do that tomorrow.  See what they’ve got to say.  

Edited August 30, 2023 by bomberbrown
Change of mind

[Jolly Roger]

Joy as insurance prices SOAR...

Had my Direct Line renewal recently, £184 to £241 with no changes to policy - a whopping 30% increase.  Did some price comparisons, similar voluntary excess for other providers around the £200 mark, spoke to Direct Line and knocked it down to £210, they just asked the amounts of voluntary excess of some of my quotes, I'm happy enough.

[Confusion of VIs]

17 minutes ago, bomberbrown said:

Can you explain why it costs nothing to park outside your home on the street in Nuneaton (or most other towns for that matter), compared to a London borough where it now costs £310?  Bearing in mind, it also cost nothing to park outside my London borough home up until about 2006 when this charge/permit came into effect.  

They get/got the money from someone else.  

16 minutes ago, bomberbrown said:

To be honest, no I didn’t, because I figured it would be futile. They’ll just give the old flannel about air pollution etc.  

Actually, you’ve pricked my ears, I might very well just do that tomorrow.  See what they’ve got to say.  

They need the money what more justification do you need. If it also manages the number of cars trying to park on the road and reduces air pollution that a bonus.  

[Confusion of VIs]

2 minutes ago, Jolly Roger said:

Joy as insurance prices SOAR...

Had my Direct Line renewal recently, £184 to £241 with no changes to policy - a whopping 30% increase.  Did some price comparisons, similar voluntary excess for other providers around the £200 mark, spoke to Direct Line and knocked it down to £210, they just asked the amounts of voluntary excess of some of my quotes, I'm happy enough.

That's new, Direct Line always used to refuse to price match.

Perhaps times are getting hard.

[bomberbrown]

36 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

They get/got the money from someone else.  

They need the money what more justification do you need. If it also manages the number of cars trying to park on the road and reduces air pollution that a bonus.  

In a nutshell!

[clarkey]

10 hours ago, bomberbrown said:

Mine actually went down £20 this year, but when you factor in the extra years NCD, it went up £20 in real terms.  

My council parking permit (to park on the public street that is) however..... that went up 75%!!!!!  (£178 last year and this year is £310!!!)

Wife wanted to buy a town centre mid terrace a few years back with only on street parking via council parking permit. It’s not particularly busy town and parking outside generally not a problem but I just couldn’t bring myself to be at the mercy of the council potentially hiking the price of the parking every year. Bought something slightly further out with a off street parking

[mspL4]

Quote last year was £142, renewal this year was £211. Shopped around, couldn't get cheaper anywhere, (comparison sites, direct websites etc). 20 year old car, 20 year's NCD. Asked the guy why it had gone up by 50% when I'd had no claims, "well we work with Brokers, that's the amount the Brokers come up with". Second time in 29 years of driving that I paid more for my premium than the year before. Tw@ts!

[clarkey]

31 minutes ago, mspL4 said:

Quote last year was £142, renewal this year was £211. Shopped around, couldn't get cheaper anywhere, (comparison sites, direct websites etc). 20 year old car, 20 year's NCD. Asked the guy why it had gone up by 50% when I'd had no claims, "well we work with Brokers, that's the amount the Brokers come up with". Second time in 29 years of driving that I paid more for my premium than the year before. Tw@ts!

Brokers would like a 50% pay rise so that’s the number they randomly came up with. Piss takers the lot

[regprentice]

24 minutes ago, clarkey said:

Brokers would like a 50% pay rise so that’s the number they randomly came up with. Piss takers the lot

it was companies like sky and virgin that first spoke about "sticky customers". But even when i worked at a high street bank (as recently as 2018) they were starting to speak about the same thing. 

Customers who dont like moving, or who find moving too complex, are worth more to you because they can be charged more. virgin and Sky want your TV, and your landline and your internet. Your bank wants you paying monthly for a fee account and theyve got your banking and your travel insurance and your breakdown cover and so on. This disincentivises you from leaving because getting 3 or 4 companies to do the same as 1 does is a hassle. 

That logic slowly becomes dont waste your time on customers who wont accept annual price increases.... there are better customers out there who will.

Edited August 31, 2023 by regprentice

[clarkey]

9 minutes ago, regprentice said:

it was companies like sky and virgin that first spoke about "sticky customers". But even when i worked at a high street bank (as recently as 2018) they were starting to speak about the same thing. 

Customers who dont like moving, or who find moving too complex, are worth more to you because they can be charged more. virgin and Sky want your TV, and your landline and your internet. Your bank wants you paying monthly for a fee account and theyve got your banking and your travel insurance and your breakdown cover and so on. This disincentivises you from leaving because getting 3 or 4 companies to do the same as 1 does is a hassle. 

That logic slowly becomes dont waste your time on customers who wont accept annual price increases.... there are better customers out there who will.

Sad but this has been what a large part of our economy has been about over the last 20-30 years not innovating with new products selling across the globe let’s just rip off captured markets

[winkie]

1 hour ago, mspL4 said:

Quote last year was £142, renewal this year was £211. Shopped around, couldn't get cheaper anywhere, (comparison sites, direct websites etc). 20 year old car, 20 year's NCD. Asked the guy why it had gone up by 50% when I'd had no claims, "well we work with Brokers, that's the amount the Brokers come up with". Second time in 29 years of driving that I paid more for my premium than the year before. Tw@ts!

The tax and insurance for one year cost more than many second hand older reliable well looked after cars do.....add to that MOT costs before regular servicing and parts......the upfront cost of the car and high mileage to gallon a bonus......it is the other compulsory running 'rental costs' that bump the overall costs up.

[scottbeard]

On 30/08/2023 at 09:43, btd1981 said:

It's an absolute pss take.  Especially as you are legally obliged to pay for it.  Should be capped at RPI tops by regulators. 

To make things worse my experience is that you can pay many thousands for car insurance over a long period of time, with no claims, and then after the first minor ding you have they want to just write off your car.

Car insurance is quite a competitive market - and the costs of claims do not necessarily move exactly in line with RPI, so capping rises in premiums at RPI is inappropriate.

For example, if the price of replacing damaged car parts goes up 50% then it shouldn't be surprising that car insurance goes up more than RPI of 10% etc.

[A.steve]

10 minutes ago, scottbeard said:

Car insurance is quite a competitive market - and the costs of claims do not necessarily move exactly in line with RPI, so capping rises in premiums at RPI is inappropriate.

It's only competitive if you make some particular assumptions.  I'd argue that the market isn't efficient as all the insurance providers have a broadly similar approach to estimation of risk.  The market may be "efficient" in the sense that it approximates a local optimisation minimum - where small deviations in strategy by insurers lead to lower profits... but... the market isn't efficient in the sense that it doesn't apportion retail costs to align with actual dangers - because the risk estimation strategy is fundamentally flawed.  Insurers practise discrimination that would be unacceptable in other contexts.  Why should Bob have to pay more for his insurance than Adam - just because Bob is grouped, by insurers, with a less favourable demographic than Adam.  For example, while both Bob and Adam might have identical practical experience driving... Bob will, almost certainly, be required to pay more than Adam if Bob is 20 and Adam is 50... even if, on every other assessed fact, these customers were identical.

I don't think there's an easy way to make insurance efficient.  I think risk, inevitably, will always be inefficiently managed.

[scottbeard]

43 minutes ago, A.steve said:

It's only competitive if you make some particular assumptions.  I'd argue that the market isn't efficient as all the insurance providers have a broadly similar approach to estimation of risk.

I didn't say it was efficient, just "quite competitive"

44 minutes ago, A.steve said:

Why should Bob have to pay more for his insurance than Adam - just because Bob is grouped, by insurers, with a less favourable demographic than Adam.  For example, while both Bob and Adam might have identical practical experience driving... Bob will, almost certainly, be required to pay more than Adam if Bob is 20 and Adam is 50... even if, on every other assessed fact, these customers were identical.

I don't think there's an easy way to make insurance efficient.  I think risk, inevitably, will always be inefficiently managed.

So you have answered you own question there then.

 

[Confusion of VIs]

1 hour ago, A.steve said:

I don't think there's an easy way to make insurance efficient.  I think risk, inevitably, will always be inefficiently managed.

There is Tesla are already doing it in the US.

Tesla insurance provides personalised quotes based on how safe your driving style is, how far you drive, where you drive and when you drive. 

As its the US the soon to be legacy insurance companies are lobbying furiously against this claiming it is unfair that Tesla can cream off all the safe drivers. Happily ignoring the fact that just having your driving assessed in real time is reducing the accident rate. 

 

[A.steve]

2 hours ago, scottbeard said:

I didn't say it was efficient, just "quite competitive"

The issue I raised involved asking what the competition sought to maximise (or minimise).

1 hour ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Happily ignoring the fact that just having your driving assessed in real time is reducing the accident rate.

I seriously doubt that assessment in real time is reducing the accident rate.  I do expect Tesla owners, as a demographic, will have lower than average accident rates... but, I think, this will only be relative to the mean across all car owners.   I think it would be very difficult to factor out all the other factors which influence accident rates.  I wonder if driving, consistently, at moderately above the speed limit results in larger, or smaller, premiums when driving is automatically assessed?

[scottbeard]

On 30/08/2023 at 08:39, Maghull Mike said:

DRivers need to brace themselves warn insurance company...................more inflation!

Get those rates UP BOE!

My car insurance renewed this week and I never got around to "shopping around" so it just rolled over.

£251 last year;  £290 this year which is around 16% higher.

So a big rise, or only £3.25 more a month - depending upon how you look at it.

[hotblack42]

10 hours ago, scottbeard said:

£251 last year;  £290 this year which is around 16% higher.

So a big rise, or only £3.25 more a month - depending upon how you look at it.

Quite.  £290 is pretty commensurate with the risk assuming this is an average driver / car / location.

It's the compound effect that is a concern.

That said, not a lot of choice if on demand personal mobility is required.

What is weird to me is paying £1200 to insure a Tesla😳

That's 3x what we pay to insure a Corolla Hybrid AND & GSXR750.

The bike can accelerate faster than a model 3 performance & the car will go over 100 miles further than the model 3 long range🤔

My wife can be out in the Corolla when I'm on the bike.

I don't understand..

[nero120]

3 hours ago, hotblack42 said:

Quite.  £290 is pretty commensurate with the risk assuming this is an average driver / car / location.

It's the compound effect that is a concern.

That said, not a lot of choice if on demand personal mobility is required.

What is weird to me is paying £1200 to insure a Tesla😳

That's 3x what we pay to insure a Corolla Hybrid AND & GSXR750.

The bike can accelerate faster than a model 3 performance & the car will go over 100 miles further than the model 3 long range🤔

My wife can be out in the Corolla when I'm on the bike.

I don't understand..

Yeah I don't understand why he's paying £290 and I'm getting quotes of £700+ to ensure a 2017 e class diesel with 5 years NCB and no incidents at all?!

Thinking of going to a broker, anyone used one before?

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

8 hours ago, hotblack42 said:

Quite.  £290 is pretty commensurate with the risk assuming this is an average driver / car / location.

It's the compound effect that is a concern.

That said, not a lot of choice if on demand personal mobility is required.

What is weird to me is paying £1200 to insure a Tesla😳

That's 3x what we pay to insure a Corolla Hybrid AND & GSXR750.

The bike can accelerate faster than a model 3 performance & the car will go over 100 miles further than the model 3 long range🤔

My wife can be out in the Corolla when I'm on the bike.

I don't understand..

The replacement cost of the Tesla is probably pretty high.

And Tesla can go from 40K new up to what over 100K ? So the specification "Tesla" covers a lot of variation in price.

Edit - I see a Model Y performance is 60k

Edited September 1, 2023 by Gigantic Purple Slug

[Gbob]

Just got my car tax renewed. Up 16% on mine. What takes the piss is it costs the equivalent of an extra £20 if you wanted to to pay for 6 months at a time.

I wonder if they will revamp the different bands when zero emission cars have to start paying too in a couple of years time.

[A.steve]

6 hours ago, nero120 said:

Yeah I don't understand why he's paying £290 and I'm getting quotes of £700+ to ensure a 2017 e class diesel with 5 years NCB and no incidents at all?!

Thinking of going to a broker, anyone used one before?

I've never used a broker... and I've not moved my insurance since around 2000 -  when I was a fair bit younger.  Every year I've promised myself I'll shop around - but, when push-came-to-shove... I was always too busy to do the task justice - and the existing insurer is sufficient value to stop me prioritising it.

My hunch is that there might be better deals for me (>20 years with no-claims)... Two incidents - one on Xmas eve 2002 when someone drove into me while I was doing a 3-point turn... and one a decade later when someone backed into my car while it was parked (correctly) in the supermarket car-park and I was in the supermarket - smashing the numberplate.  I claimed for the first; but didn't claim for the second... the damage was minor/cosmetic (and very difficult to repair to perfect.)

I suspect a broker might be good for me - if I could find one I trusted.  In my life, I've taken out two mortgages - the first I arranged myself... I got a poor deal and it was a lot of hassle; the second I paid £500 to a broker and got a deal I thought to be fantastic - well worth the fee.  What stops me from thinking I should find an insurance broker is that I'd need to trust them.  The mortgage broker came recommended... but no-one has ever recommended an insurance broker to me.  Perhaps the problem is that insurers want to have a more direct relationship with those they insure... It would make sense if they do... as a broker working for the client (paid directly by the client) would act counter to insurer profits.