Dog Price Bubble

[rantnrave]

Reading threads like this, I'm left wondering if I'm the only person that doesn't overwhelmingly base my decisions on 'feelings'?

Seems like the whole country has assumed since lockdown one that this is the new normal, we will always have furlough time to look after a puppy, we will never be needed in an office again so can relocate hours away from company HQ...

[PeanutButter]

HPC is somewhat self selecting in that only people considering the future and doubting the established paradigm of HPI4eva would find this place. Most people react from feelings rather than trying to forecast. 

I am interested to hear from any HPCers who have got a dog during lockdown.

[Riedquat]

15 minutes ago, rantnrave said:

Reading threads like this, I'm left wondering if I'm the only person that doesn't overwhelmingly base my decisions on 'feelings'?

What else do you base you decisions on then? As I've argued often enough before it makes no sense to base decisions on anything else. The bit where most people slip up on isn't basing decisions on feelings, it's not giving sufficient thought that those feelings are informed by a good idea of what the real situation is and what it's likely to be like.

But the idea that you can make decisions for any other reason is absurd, and has given rise to all sorts of obnoxious nonsense due to people being "rational", which usually takes the form of just accepting some predefined notions of what's a desirable outcome to the point of being hopelessly incapable of actually understanding why something is or isn't. Beware anyone who claims to be making a decision for purely rational reasons, they're probably an idiot.

[Riedquat]

2 minutes ago, PeanutButter said:

HPC is somewhat self selecting in that only people considering the future and doubting the established paradigm of HPI4eva would find this place. Most people react from feelings rather than trying to forecast. 

I am interested to hear from any HPCers who have got a dog during lockdown.

You can and should forecast but that really boils down to having a good stab at thinking "how will I feel in the future too, considering the range of possibilities of what the situation is likely to be then?"

[GregBowman]

1 hour ago, Riedquat said:

What else do you base you decisions on then? As I've argued often enough before it makes no sense to base decisions on anything else. The bit where most people slip up on isn't basing decisions on feelings, it's not giving sufficient thought that those feelings are informed by a good idea of what the real situation is and what it's likely to be like.

But the idea that you can make decisions for any other reason is absurd, and has given rise to all sorts of obnoxious nonsense due to people being "rational", which usually takes the form of just accepting some predefined notions of what's a desirable outcome to the point of being hopelessly incapable of actually understanding why something is or isn't. Beware anyone who claims to be making a decision for purely rational reasons, they're probably an idiot.

There are simply too many biological, chemical and experience filters that are used to process any information in everyone's noggin that anyone claiming to be purely rational is deluding themselves. Well put

[Riedquat]

1 hour ago, GregBowman said:

There are simply too many biological, chemical and experience filters that are used to process any information in everyone's noggin that anyone claiming to be purely rational is deluding themselves. Well put

I wasn't even getting at that, although it's a valid point too. My real point is that if you stick to purely "rational" it doesn't even matter whether you live or die - deciding upon a course of action to increase the chance of living and reduce the chance of dying is an emotionally-based decision. Without emotion we'd have no reason for even valuing our own lives. It ties in with what you said of course, because at their core emotions are biological, chemical and experience responses, as is every aspect of life.

[PeanutButter]

It's not particularly rational wasting hours of one's life on an anonymous internet forum endlessly debating the same topics. 

And yet, somehow, many of us have managed to avoid buying a lockdown puppy.

[winkie]

I can't even think why a puppy should cost so much when there are so many that would welcome a good home for no cost......the cost is the future food and vets bills and possible training.......why own one when can walk one and hand it back, not so much of a tie.......there is a time when can have a dog, when got lots of time to give it.

[Locke]

2 hours ago, PeanutButter said:

It's not particularly rational wasting hours of one's life on an anonymous internet forum endlessly debating the same topics. 

And yet, somehow, many of us have managed to avoid buying a lockdown puppy.

My wife and I created a lockdown baby

[GregBowman]

2 hours ago, PeanutButter said:

It's not particularly rational wasting hours of one's life on an anonymous internet forum endlessly debating the same topics. 

And yet, somehow, many of us have managed to avoid buying a lockdown puppy.

Very Good !!

[rantnrave]

I of course have feelings - I just don't act on them impulsively. Buying a DVD you just happen to spot on a shelf and like the look of is one thing. Buying a puppy without researching the cost and time involved in raising a dog is a whole different level of irresponsibility.

[coypondboy]

Chaos when cycling along the prom as new dog owners have no control over their minute dogs with their xmas blankets and flashing lights so I don't run them over on my bike.  They should be on a lead according to the local bylaws but no chance have had a few near misses trying ot anticipate which way young buddy or candy is going whilst chav owners discuss the latest I'm a celebrity gossip.  Luckily the older locals push them in prames (I kid you not) with the prams covered in lights as well as the dogs.

[GregBowman]

11 minutes ago, rantnrave said:

I of course have feelings - I just don't act on them impulsively. Buying a DVD you just happen to spot on a shelf and like the look of is one thing. Buying a puppy without researching the cost and time involved in raising a dog is a whole different level of irresponsibility.

We agree totally. I think the term for people like that is emotionally incontinent. 

[PeanutButter]

59 minutes ago, Locke said:

My wife and I created a lockdown baby

Boom chica wow wow 😎

 

[Huggy]

6 hours ago, rantnrave said:

Reading threads like this, I'm left wondering if I'm the only person that doesn't overwhelmingly base my decisions on 'feelings'?

Seems like the whole country has assumed since lockdown one that this is the new normal, we will always have furlough time to look after a puppy, we will never be needed in an office again so can relocate hours away from company HQ...

Or that interest rates, HPI etc will stay (or even can only ever stay) at the levels they are at now or only ever move in the directions they have done for x years. 500 grand mortgage it is then!

[Riedquat]

26 minutes ago, rantnrave said:

I of course have feelings - I just don't act on them impulsively. Buying a DVD you just happen to spot on a shelf and like the look of is one thing. Buying a puppy without researching the cost and time involved in raising a dog is a whole different level of irresponsibility.

Ah, yes, pointing out the impulsive part, that's a very good part of homing in on the issue with some people.

[TheCountOfNowhere]

2 hours ago, Locke said:

My wife and I created a lockdown baby

Congratulations.  Having a child is really something incredible.  It's a shame they have to live under the current regime.

[Locke]

13 hours ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

Congratulations.  Having a child is really something incredible.  It's a shame they have to live under the current regime.

Thank you, he is utterly adorable

Ehh, life is what you make of it. If we have to homestead on a farm to get away from the regime, so be it. We're not planning on sending him to school until at least secondary, so hopefully by then things will be different.

[Ignorantbliss]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-59669828

Northern Ireland animal charities have warned that they face a "deluge" of abandoned dogs as owners look to offload their "lockdown" pups.

Illegal breeders are also surrendering dogs that have lost value now the coronavirus pandemic puppy boom has begun to wane, said the charities.

Assisi Animal Sanctuary said puppy farms that had "scaled up" to meet demand were now dumping whole litters.

A sign of things to come in 2022.  A lot of these farmed dogs ended up in Scotland, will be interesting to see how quickly prices drop back here to 2018 levels.  Sub £1k mongrel pups still the exception here in Aberdeenshire, so still a market for overpriced pups here.

[TheCountOfNowhere]

5 hours ago, Ignorantbliss said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-59669828

Northern Ireland animal charities have warned that they face a "deluge" of abandoned dogs as owners look to offload their "lockdown" pups.

Illegal breeders are also surrendering dogs that have lost value now the coronavirus pandemic puppy boom has begun to wane, said the charities.

Assisi Animal Sanctuary said puppy farms that had "scaled up" to meet demand were now dumping whole litters.

A sign of things to come in 2022.  A lot of these farmed dogs ended up in Scotland, will be interesting to see how quickly prices drop back here to 2018 levels.  Sub £1k mongrel pups still the exception here in Aberdeenshire, so still a market for overpriced pups here.

Just had a look on the dog sale website I've quoted before, prices up 50%, Christmas profiteering perhaps. 

 

2022 is going to be interesting 

[Pop321]

On 03/12/2021 at 08:18, Locke said:

Thank you, he is utterly adorable

Ehh, life is what you make of it. If we have to homestead on a farm to get away from the regime, so be it. We're not planning on sending him to school until at least secondary, so hopefully by then things will be different.

Congratulations. Children can be a joy….unless of course it’s a girl then in 14 years time they become a nightmare for a couple of years😆😆. Joking of course…our kids make us super proud.

One thing I would say, and it’s a personal thing so no ‘rights and wrongs’ but school teaches children so much more that academia. The interaction with bullies, softies, opposite sex, loud mouths, extroverts, psychopaths, ethnicities etc….is invaluable. What you teach them at home can be the icing on the cake. Primary school is almost (awful to say) like watching a pack of dogs learning body language, strengths, interactions, learning ‘real world’ about people to avoid and people to trust.

If nothing else perhaps you can view it as using a local ‘safe’ primary school to let the puppy interact a little in the pack.

Absolutely and utterly no rights and wrongs and no judgement.

But if they go to a primary school expect tears the first day…..and that’s from you 😉

[Pop321]

On 02/12/2021 at 09:50, rantnrave said:

Reading threads like this, I'm left wondering if I'm the only person that doesn't overwhelmingly base my decisions on 'feelings'?

Seems like the whole country has assumed since lockdown one that this is the new normal, we will always have furlough time to look after a puppy, we will never be needed in an office again so can relocate hours away from company HQ...

Agree. I know there has been some views on being rational or ‘feelings’. Or indeed challenges on what is the new normal. 

I think you are right. Being rational is still listening to your feelings and factoring in some rational behaviour. Buying a puppy just seems in many cases to be all feelings.

It like eating a 4th ice cream or try to sh3g the neighbours wife….it’s something some people might want and some people DO act. And currently the puppy mania is a little like that…I want it, I am having it.

So feelings aren’t wrong and indeed you maybe acting on the ‘feeling’ that the future puppy is just a pain in the neck…is that rational or just feeling. Maybe it’s both. 

So I agree with what you say, it’s not that I ignore feelings I just factor in whether it’s a temporary thing and weigh up what is truly important.

Ps we love dogs and owned one for 13 years who died happily and 11 years ago we then bought our current ‘puppy’ 😉. 

[Locke]

On 01/01/2022 at 22:15, TheCountOfNowhere said:

Just had a look on the dog sale website I've quoted before, prices up 50%, Christmas profiteering perhaps. 

 

2022 is going to be interesting 

If SAGE modeled dog prices, we would be getting predictions of a dog costing more than the GDP of the planet by February unless Boris Johnson intervenes NOW

On 02/01/2022 at 09:26, Pop321 said:

One thing I would say, and it’s a personal thing so no ‘rights and wrongs’ but school teaches children so much more that academia. The interaction with bullies, softies, opposite sex, loud mouths, extroverts, psychopaths, ethnicities etc….is invaluable.

We intend to have a parent's group; he own't be growing up without friends lol. While there may be social upsides, I think most children actually do not learn social skills as well as they could and I certainly do not want him to be trapped in a room with psychopaths.

[Pop321]

2 hours ago, Locke said:

If SAGE modeled dog prices, we would be getting predictions of a dog costing more than the GDP of the planet by February unless Boris Johnson intervenes NOW

We intend to have a parent's group; he own't be growing up without friends lol. While there may be social upsides, I think most children actually do not learn social skills as well as they could and I certainly do not want him to be trapped in a room with psychopaths.

Re your first paragraph I think you are spot on. And house prices might be considered high on a similar basis ie unprecedented short supply and money being thrown at people. I think prices have gone up but some prices have been unsustainable and certainly not underpinned anything tangible.  

Re your second paragraph, no need to justify anything I promise it wasn’t a challenge. Sounds like you are looking at all options to ensure it works. Good luck 👍🏻👍🏻

[Locke]

2 hours ago, Pop321 said:

Re your second paragraph, no need to justify anything I promise it wasn’t a challenge. Sounds like you are looking at all options to ensure it works. Good luck 👍🏻👍🏻

Nah I'm difficult to upset. Still a ways off yet, he is only 1 next month