Greg Bowman Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 4 hours ago, Saving For a Space Ship said: Race to the bottom of your lungs ? Not sure what that means Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 13 minutes ago, Greg Bowman said: Not sure what that means Badly maintained diesels with the emmision supression fiddled with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddog Posted September 22, 2017 Author Share Posted September 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Orsino said: Quite true. There's nothing wrong with the vast majority of Uber drivers. There is, however, something very wrong with a company that exploits employment law to say its drivers are not their employees. That uses tax laws to ensure they pay only £411k in tax per year. That uses software to avoid regulatory scrutiny. And sure Uber is great value - so long as you don't factor in the cost to the taxpayer of subsidising the wages of their drivers, building the roads they drive on etc. If their service is so good, and they are so innovative, then they should pay tax at at least the same rate as the rest of us. They want another 5 years? Perhaps they shouldn't have been so contemptuous of the regulatory system. They're going to have to play by the same rules as everyone else. The thing is transport for London is not a part of HMRC. If they are commenting a tax crime then HMRC should be involved. If they are not committing a tax crime what is the problem? If the tax law needs to be changed to account for globalisation, that is an issue for the government, not for Uber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orsino Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Uber's real innovations seem to be in abusing our systems of regulation and governance. Absolutely we need to reform these systems to close loopholes and stop abuse, just as the government finally got round to closing clever little tricks like buying property in the UK via overseas companies. Fortunately in this instance we can speed up the process of changing the statutes by simply denying Uber a license. They clearly thought London wouldn't dare. After all, they're a miraculous tech unicorn, just as the banks are Masters of the Universe. Imagine how different the financial crisis would have been if the Bank of England had simply revoked (or at least threatened to revoke) some of the banks' licenses. If that seems unthinkable then that's because we've allowed them to become such an essential part of our country that regulation has become meaningless. That's exactly where Uber (and the other tech titans) want to get to as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bowman Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 53 minutes ago, reddog said: The thing is transport for London is not a part of HMRC. If they are commenting a tax crime then HMRC should be involved. If they are not committing a tax crime what is the problem? If the tax law needs to be changed to account for globalisation, that is an issue for the government, not for Uber. Read No is not enough by Naomi Klein The reason we have Trump is because TPTB have successfully got everyone thinking on single issues she argues successfully in my view that to somehow halt the social divides overwhelming us we have to look at cross overs where interests overlap It is in the interest of our society that global corporations pay a fair tax rate, in the absence of tax laws catching up this action achieves a similar result Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bowman Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 1 hour ago, spyguy said: Badly maintained diesels with the emmision supression fiddled with. Oh minuscule compared to HGV's and last mile delivery vans but I understand now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckwomanloulou Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 “This is a very terrible thing,” said Syed Khalil, 39, a father of four from Dagenham who has been an Uber driver since 2013. “I am so worried. I have a £360 a month car hire agreement. I really don’t know whether I will be able to keep the car.” https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/sep/22/uber-drivers-london-warn-financial-ruin-thousands-families How many other London Uber drivers have PCP deals that won't be able to service the loan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rave Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 (edited) Sorry if I'm being dim here, but I thought that a DBS check was part of obtaining a private hire license from TfL? https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/taxis-and-private-hire/licensing/private-hire-driver-licence So how is the apparent unsuitability of their drivers Uber's fault, rather than TfL's? Edited September 22, 2017 by Rave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddog Posted September 22, 2017 Author Share Posted September 22, 2017 13 minutes ago, duckwomanloulou said: “This is a very terrible thing,” said Syed Khalil, 39, a father of four from Dagenham who has been an Uber driver since 2013. “I am so worried. I have a £360 a month car hire agreement. I really don’t know whether I will be able to keep the car.” https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/sep/22/uber-drivers-london-warn-financial-ruin-thousands-families How many other London Uber drivers have PCP deals that won't be able to service the loan? I think a lot of them hire off Uber, and when Uber said they were going to remove petrol cars they had a scheme where buy the driver could rent from them. In all honesty, I think tfl are trying to get a bit of 'leverage', and will come to a deal in the end without Uber losing there license. It is worth remembering we are at the start of the ride app era, not the end. Uber can't be invented, so there will be a massive disruption, whatever happens with Uber in the short term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Uber can be replaced, no problem. 9 minutes ago, Rave said: Sorry if I'm being dim here, but I thought that a DBS check was part of obtaining a private hire license from TfL? https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/taxis-and-private-hire/licensing/private-hire-driver-licence So how is the apparent unsuitability of their drivers Uber's fault, rather than TfL's? Their denial of their responsibility for the drivers is the heart of TFL's refusal to licence Uber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rave Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Peter Hun said: Their denial of their responsibility for the drivers is the heart of TFL's refusal to licence Uber. That doesn't answer my question, as far as I can see? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 The drivers are Uber employees, yet Uber deny that to gain a tax and liability advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saving For a Space Ship Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, Si1 said: As I understand it, they've been tardy in terms of proper enforcement of DBS c checks. Since any other operator is to abide by these rules then I don't see why Uber should be given leeway. But I do agree the possibility exists that there a black taxi lobby trying to protect its market. I'm clearly not in favour of this in itself and am interested to hear evidence either way that supports or diminishes this possibility. Don;t know if it happenend in Uk , but in US uber are estimated to lose upwards of a $360 million, by miscalculating the cost of loss in value of the leased cars see 4.30 in Kaiser report Keiser Report: Uber Business (E1112) " uber defrauded themselves " https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9v6uqalOqE Edited September 22, 2017 by Saving For a Space Ship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 4 hours ago, Bruce Banner said: In a free market the customers decide, but free markets are few and far between these days. My daughters use "Ubers" frequently, they will not use black cabs..... far too expensive. Wasn't there a case, fairly recently, of a London cabbie murdering prostitutes? indeed they are scum bags and that is not an opinion i have relations that used to be in the black cab trade. the knowledge has been replaced by a tomtom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abstra616 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 14 hours ago, geezer466 said: 46 allegations of rape by their drivers were (in the pipeline) mentioned on LBC this morning. Some convictions already. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/uber-driver-rape-drunken-women-pick-up-bar-jahir-hussain-east-london-jailed-12-years-convicted-taxi-a7837686.html) http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/uber-drivers-accused-of-32-rapes-and-sex-attacks-on-london-passengers-a7037926.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/taxi-drivers-uber-charged-violent-sexual-offences-london-a6988286.html https://broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/vv598m/uber-drivers-are-at-the-center-of-another-rape-allegation-storm By calling them self-employed Uber thinks it absolves itself of doing background and criminal checks on their drivers. The Cab firms don't do the background checks, the Council Licensing Office does it, they issue the licence to drive not the cab firm. Foreign nationals can't have their backgrounds checked so are assumed to be sweeties. Would you let your daughter get in a cab if you thought the driver thought her to be a white, infidel, slut, whore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledMatty Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Another kick in the teeth for young people in London. Of course the greedy parasite boomers won't care as they can afford black cabs to their restaurants. The young will have to walk to Lidl now for their baked beans and white bread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddog Posted September 23, 2017 Author Share Posted September 23, 2017 1 hour ago, ExiledMatty said: Another kick in the teeth for young people in London. Of course the greedy parasite boomers won't care as they can afford black cabs to their restaurants. The young will have to walk to Lidl now for their baked beans and white bread. This, it is young people that use Uber. If you are in area with ok public transport, a bike and have Uber for the longer/ more difficult journey's there is no need for a car. One of Ubers goals is to be the replacement for the car, a lot of people are totally missing the that point. An older persons with a car, that very occasionally uses a black cab or private hire, is clueless to how young people get around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Abstra616 said: The Cab firms don't do the background checks, the Council Licensing Office does it, they issue the licence to drive not the cab firm. What makes this whole thing so funny is that a few years back a Council gave a tax license to a man who they KNEW was a convicted rapist.... and who then went on to rape some of the passengers he picked up in his cab. I can't see Uber doing that. 'Yeah, well, he told us he'd been in jail for rape, but he said he doesn't do that any more, so we thought he'd be OK.' BTW, wasn't there a news story a couple of years back about British women who refused to get into taxis driven by men of a certain ethinic background? Edited September 23, 2017 by MarkG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bowman Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 39 minutes ago, reddog said: This, it is young people that use Uber. If you are in area with ok public transport, a bike and have Uber for the longer/ more difficult journey's there is no need for a car. One of Ubers goals is to be the replacement for the car, a lot of people are totally missing the that point. An older persons with a car, that very occasionally uses a black cab or private hire, is clueless to how young people get around. Uber's only goal is to make zillions for the 1% and their money who have invested in them Their shareholders would sell ice cream if it made more money Christ you really have bought into this corporations are great and nations and their democratic laws are out dated haven't you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bowman Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, ExiledMatty said: Another kick in the teeth for young people in London. Of course the greedy parasite boomers won't care as they can afford black cabs to their restaurants. The young will have to walk to Lidl now for their baked beans and white bread. Cycle, motorcycle, scooter, run, night bus , night tube oh sorry you mean getting wasted and falling into an underpriced cab life's tough ????? Edited September 23, 2017 by Greg Bowman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 43 minutes ago, MarkG said: What makes this whole thing so funny is that a few years back a Council gave a tax license to a man who they KNEW was a convicted rapist.... and who then went on to rape some of the passengers he picked up in his cab. I can't see Uber doing that. 'Yeah, well, he told us he'd been in jail for rape, but he said he doesn't do that any more, so we thought he'd be OK.' Thats precisely what Uber have been doing. Other councils will still allow Uber to operate, however in London that expect 100% clean drivers. I don't want to hear that the Uber my daughter gets to school has a rapist driver on average every two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 2 hours ago, ExiledMatty said: Another kick in the teeth for young people in London. Of course the greedy parasite boomers won't care as they can afford black cabs to their restaurants. The young will have to walk to Lidl now for their baked beans and white bread. Perhaps before making this rash judgement - you should RESEARCH a list of why Uber (and other US tech companies) is so evil. I have done the work for you, here's a list:https://stallman.org/uber.html The young will still have to walk to Lidl after they lose their cars, as Uber does nothing to pay for their upkeep. It's a massive con. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 21 minutes ago, Greg Bowman said: Uber's only goal is to make zillions for the 1% and their money who have invested in them Their shareholders would sell ice cream if it made more money Christ you really have bought into this corporations are great and nations and their democratic laws are out dated haven't you Uber didn't invent anything, if they did they'd have a patent on it. There is a whole list of companies who will take over from Uber and who will be forced to act legally. This the future, breaking monopolies (Uber) with app based services such as Lyft https://www.ridester.com/uber-vs-lyft/ Music didn't die when Napster was banned, neither will calling an taxi via a smartphone app. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ah-so Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Not quite to the Mash's normal standards, but the last line days it all: “This is it, mate, that’ll be £88.50. Do you mind getting your own case out? Only I’ve done in my back.” http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/business/black-cab-drivers-to-revel-in-victory-over-uber-for-centuries-to-come-20170922136368 The enormous cost of a black cab in London will always leave room for alternatives. Until Uber, there were lots of illegal cabs plying their trade around the centre of London, but with Uber, there is less need for them. Someone earlier mentioned the user of Uber being the drunk secretary trying to get back to Croydon - well that would cost about £100 from central London at night and it seems a shame that we had a cab system that abused a fixed price system that excluded most of those on working class salaries, instead leaving them to the rich or those on expenses. Uber will be back because its hailing method is legal. Instead it will need to do more on the background checks of its drivers, or whatever TFL's concern was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, Ah-so said: or whatever TFL's concern was. Being unfit to provide a Taxi service. That will take some doing, if its possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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