Do You Believe This Type 45 Destroyer Reason For Them All Being In Port

[stormymonday_2011]

Taxpayers will have to foot the bill to refit warships that break down in the Persian Gulf when the water becomes too warm, because they are out of warranty. The Ministry of Defence said the arduous conditions that made the £1billion Type 45 Destroyers degrade catastrophically were not covered by the guarantee. Engines on the six warships fail because the intercooler units, which reduce heat from the exhaust, slow down in warm waters, leaving the engine unable to generate enough power. Daily Mail

Another victim of global warming.

[interestrateripoff]

Why would you have all 6 berthed alongside each other in the same port?

In your scenario would they not be better placed spread all round the British Isles?

Pearl harbour?

[interestrateripoff]

Think some of this thread is running away with the fairies.

Probably just a scheduling quirk and we are in prime Summer leave time with some ships due back other will be due out in a matter of days..

Traditionally the RN tends to be alongside in late July and August to allow Sailors time to rest and recuperate ahead of redeploying in the autumn - because the RN (after many studies, years of research and finally multiple rocket scientists advice) has discovered that volunteer sailors don't like sailing around off the coast of the UK for shits and giggles when they could be at home with their family ahead of a long deployment.

As usual though, this doesn't stop armchair experts who think the RN buys guns the length of toothbrushes deciding that a perfectly normal summer leave period somehow means we're all doomed.

A RN destroyers main role these days is as an anti air and missile screen to a large battle group or a carrier air wing group.

Larger assets such as the new Aircraft carrier yet to enter service or the current amphibious or chopper/Marine carriers we already deploy will always got to sea with a destroyer escort usually more than one to to provide air cover.

WW2 and the sinking of Prince of Wales and Repulse was the end of the massively gunned battleship, next step up from the dreadnoughts. Huge bastions of power that could be sunk with a single aircraft. Meant tactics had to change and a faster manoeuvrable solution found to protect the larger assets. These are what the destroyers are largely for.

An aircraft carrier is an offensive weapon if you think about it. It would never put to sea without a large protective battle group around it. This would include hunter killer submarines in the vanguard

Errr only with fecking planes which we currently don't have!!

[The Eagle]

I wonder if it is more to do with perceived threats from Russia.

There is no 'perceived thread from Russia' other than in the sick minds of the NATO head honchos who need an excuse to feel important and play war games.

[workingpoor]

There is no 'perceived thread from Russia' other than in the sick minds of the NATO head honchos who need an excuse to feel important and play war games.

"Men with Tanks say there'll be Tanks on streets"

[PopGun]

Think some of this thread is running away with the fairies.

Probably just a scheduling quirk and we are in prime Summer leave time with some ships due back other will be due out in a matter of days..

Traditionally the RN tends to be alongside in late July and August to allow Sailors time to rest and recuperate ahead of redeploying in the autumn - because the RN (after many studies, years of research and finally multiple rocket scientists advice) has discovered that volunteer sailors don't like sailing around off the coast of the UK for shits and giggles when they could be at home with their family ahead of a long deployment.

As usual though, this doesn't stop armchair experts who think the RN buys guns the length of toothbrushes deciding that a perfectly normal summer leave period somehow means we're all doomed.

A RN destroyers main role these days is as an anti air and missile screen to a large battle group or a carrier air wing group.

Larger assets such as the new Aircraft carrier yet to enter service or the current amphibious or chopper/Marine carriers we already deploy will always got to sea with a destroyer escort usually more than one to to provide air cover.

WW2 and the sinking of Prince of Wales and Repulse was the end of the massively gunned battleship, next step up from the dreadnoughts. Huge bastions of power that could be sunk with a single aircraft. Meant tactics had to change and a faster manoeuvrable solution found to protect the larger assets. These are what the destroyers are largely for.

An aircraft carrier is an offensive weapon if you think about it. It would never put to sea without a large protective battle group around it. This would include hunter killer submarines in the vanguard

Thank you for one of the more informed contributions to the thread.

[2010]

Was the water too warm for them?

and to cold.

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

It's probably just the summer scheduling plus the engine problems. Maybe they decided instead of sending another one of these back to the Gulf to get wrecked again they were going to send something else instead.

From what I've read the engine change is not a trival one, they are going to have to cut holes in the side of the ship. But as with all of these sorts of things maybe there is some sort of temporary solution that can be fitted easier as an interim, and maybe they are having that done rather than be sent out again and risk wrecking another set of engines.

If they were going to defend against russians, then putting them all in Portsmouth is a really crap idea since the missiles only have ranges of 30-60 miles and the Russians come from the North.Unless they only care about defending Portsmouth of course.

Finally, I think if you wanted to come up with some sort of TFH explanation for why more are there maybe the stories in the Rage about a ferry being attacked are a better place to look. I think these ships are pretty fast, so would be good to get to places quickly. That said helicopters and fast patrol boats might be better.

[Bloo Loo]

To convince you that everything is OK - i.e. usual British c*ck-up that we now take for granted - but letting the enemy know that we are prepared?

The current enemy cant be stopped by missiles. Better kill the hearts and enslave the minds from within.

[interestrateripoff]

It's probably just the summer scheduling plus the engine problems. Maybe they decided instead of sending another one of these back to the Gulf to get wrecked again they were going to send something else instead.

From what I've read the engine change is not a trival one, they are going to have to cut holes in the side of the ship. But as with all of these sorts of things maybe there is some sort of temporary solution that can be fitted easier as an interim, and maybe they are having that done rather than be sent out again and risk wrecking another set of engines.

If they were going to defend against russians, then putting them all in Portsmouth is a really crap idea since the missiles only have ranges of 30-60 miles and the Russians come from the North.Unless they only care about defending Portsmouth of course.

Finally, I think if you wanted to come up with some sort of TFH explanation for why more are there maybe the stories in the Rage about a ferry being attacked are a better place to look. I think these ships are pretty fast, so would be good to get to places quickly. That said helicopters and fast patrol boats might be better.

Won't cutting holes in the ship weaken it?

[The Masked Tulip]

Check out the huge dent in HMS Ambush.

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4580/check-out-the-huge-dent-in-hms-ambush

Or have a look at what they did to repair the USS San Francisco.

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4349/watch-a-nuclear-fast-attack-submarine-dive-and-surface-like-never-before?iid=sr-link2

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

Won't cutting holes in the ship weaken it?

Dunno. You could come up with a whole load of bs arguments on stuff like that without anyone ever being able to know they are right.

In my unprofessional opinion and knowing **** all about maritime engineering and the structural configuration of the ships I would say it should be possible to do it without causing any issues.

[rollover]

Won't cutting holes in the ship weaken it?

It's like Keynesian holes.

The Rolls-Royce WR-21 engines have been beset by repeated breakdowns since coming into service in the Type 45 destroyers, leaving the air defence ships without power for propulsion or working weapons systems. The former Labour Government ignored concerns about the reliability of the engines in order to buy from a British manufacturer. Last month Parliament was told the gas-turbine engines are unable to operate continuously in warm waters.

“The Government made a decision that they would go for British shoddy engines and everyone said at the time ‘don’t go for them, they’re rubbish’.” “It was a political decision because of electoral politics, and now of course the engines are useless. “They don’t operate well at all, but all the politicians do is look at the next election,” he added. “They don’t look at the long-term life of these things.

The six engines, which are worth £1 billion each, will be replaced as part of a programme starting in 2019. Telegraph

[Wahoo]

The Russian nuclear torpedo is a problem:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34797252

[pl1]

Well this bloke with a beard reckons it's a larger symptom of long-term naval cutbacks:

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/royal-navys-advanced-destroyers-port-015700022.html

I'm going with that & a summer scheduling quirk/c0ckup

[Goat]

It's like Keynesian holes.

The ships themselves cost £1bn, the engines are a fraction of that.

[workingpoor]

I worked on the construction of all these Ships.

I'am quite knowledgable about them.

I cannot say anything though.

For those on Facebook you can go on "UK Defence Journal" page and there are some good debates on F35 / New Carriers / T45's & T26's

Be warned though those who don't follow the jingoistic militaristic flagwaving line tend to get blocked.

[rollover]

The ships themselves cost £1bn, the engines are a fraction of that.

And maybe the cost of each ship wasn't £1bn and that is the problem now. On top of that, each will need additional work + new engine for £1bn.

[Errol]

The Russian nuclear torpedo is a problem:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34797252

'100-megaton warhead could devastate US coast with massive tsunami and intense radiation'.

The Russians already have these torpedos, by the way - operational and ready to go. That 'leak' was in the way of telling the Americans to back off.

Russia Military studies back in the 1950s determined that the large coastal areas of the USA were a major weak point - and left the nation particularly vulnerable to Tsunami or massive nuclear contamination along an entire coastal area. Lots of major cities right on the sea as well.

'A warhead of up to 100 megatons could produce a tsunami up to 500m (1,650ft) high, wiping out all living things 1,500km (930 miles) deep inside US territory' -Konstantin Sivkov, Russian Geopolitical Academy

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

I worked on the construction of all these Ships.

I'am quite knowledgable about them.

I cannot say anything though.

For those on Facebook you can go on "UK Defence Journal" page and there are some good debates on F35 / New Carriers / T45's & T26's

Be warned though those who don't follow the jingoistic militaristic flagwaving line tend to get blocked.

Maybe you should apply for your old job, and make the same money taking them back to bits !

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

And maybe the cost of each ship wasn't £1bn and that is the problem now. On top of that, each will need additional work + new engine for £1bn.

The article is wrong. The engines didn't cost a billion quid each. It was the ships that cost a billion quid.

http://www.ft.com/fastft/2016/01/29/refitting-royal-navys-combat-ship-engine-to-cost-tens-of-millions/

This article seems a bit more realistic to me - tens of millions.

Irony being that the thing that causes the problem (intercooler) was there to improve efficiency and reduce operating costs over the lifetime. Instead all the savings will probably all be swallowed up by the cost of the refit !

[workingpoor]

Maybe you should apply for your old job, and make the same money taking them back to bits !

Yes the work is scheduled to begin in 2019 i believe, not sure which Dockyard is getting the work though may go up North.

[The Masked Tulip]

On Britain's ability to defend itself from aerial attack, he said: “UK air defence now consists of the (working) Type 45 (destroyers), enough ground-based air defence to protect roughly Whitehall only, and RAF fast jets.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/711588/Vladimir-Putin-Britain-invade-airstrike-military-army-Michael-Fallon-Russia-Richard-Barron

[rollover]

British warships are ‘so noisy’ Russian submarines can hear them 100 miles away

Noise suppression has been the biggest dirty secret since the end of the Cold War that people have been cheerfully ignoring,’ says Admiral. Poor equipment and botched procurement deals could hinder Britain’s ability to defend itself in the face of a serious military attack, an investigation has found. Among the flaws found in the nation’s defences were warships that reportedly make so much noise Russian submarines can hear them from a distance of up to 100 miles. Britain’s Type 45 destroyers – which have been plagued by engine problems – are “as noisy as hell”. “We used to put little wooden wedges between the hatchclips and the hatches in my destroyer to stop them rattling so we could keep the noise down,” said Adm Parry.

When they were first commissioned into the fleet in 2009, they were hailed as the most revolutionary battleships in the world. A key factor in their procurement was that they would not need a refit for at least 25 years.

The MoD said that because the Type 45 was an air defence battleship, stealth was not a “premium requirement”. Independent

[codfather]

To me the fact its in the independent and that we pick up and escort Russian military subs/planes from within our territory means its not quite as alarming as it is made out to be. 

The Indy has long jumped the shark and is firmly in the clickbait/fake news circle.