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The Masked Tulip

Do You Believe This Type 45 Destroyer Reason For Them All Being In Port

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I wonder if it is more to do with perceived threats from Russia.

Having all 6 Type 45s would greatly add to air defence capability of the UK in any conflict. I suspect this engine problem is not the real reason why they are all back here.

Unless, of course, they have been fundamentally compromised? Software?

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/uks-type-45-destroyer-fleet-092508195.html

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Do they stop missiles?

Yes. Their main reason to exist.

They use the Aster missile which is designed to intercept and destroy a wide range of air threats such as supersonic cruise missiles - which the Russians have a lot of - at either very low altitudes, in other words sea-skimming, and at high altitudes.

They are also used to target fast flying, high performance aircraft.

The Asters are controlled by the Sea Viper missile system which can track multiple targets and launch multiple missiles independently to their targets.

It is the sort of thing you want close to home if you fear lots of Russian jets heading in your direction.

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I'd be surprised if it was thought that some ship-based surface-to-air missiles would help much. I don't think SAMs are really a part of the plans for the defence of the British Isles anymore. During the 1960s we used to have big neo-gothic SAMs like the Bloodhound and the Thunderbird, now all we have is the short-range Rapier which looked quite unimpressive on TV during the Falklands conflict.

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Why is it the main news item? The people they put up to calm and explain why simply raise my antennae.

To convince you that everything is OK - i.e. usual British c*ck-up that we now take for granted - but letting the enemy know that we are prepared?

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I'd be surprised if it was thought that some ship-based surface-to-air missiles would help much. I don't think SAMs are really a part of the plans for the defence of the British Isles anymore. During the 1960s we used to have big neo-gothic SAMs like the Bloodhound and the Thunderbird, now all we have is the short-range Rapier which looked quite unimpressive on TV during the Falklands conflict.

A few points.

The missile system - both the missiles and radar tracking - on the Type 45 is considered the most sophisticated in the world. It is crazy how many targets Sea Viper can track and do so from what distances. The Aster missiles are Mach 3.5 and Mach 4.5 capable - the latter being, along with the new RAF Meteor missile, one of the few missiles in the NATO armoury that have any chance of catching & intercepting Russian cruise missiles.

Deployment, in several locations around the UK including the Baltic, North Sea, etc, would potentially deny a very large area of European air space to enemy aircraft. Well, make them think twice.

Missile systems aboard warships now actually do form a major part of NATO plans in defending countries. Europe is currently being protected by 3 US Aegis enabled Arleigh Burke destroyers that sit off the coast of Spain, occasionally venturing deeper into the Med, and are primarily there to stop nuclear missiles from, ahem, Iran targeting Europe.

The same system is in place off the coast of Japan to stop nuclear missiles from North Korea hitting Japan.

In both cases you can think of other nuclear-capable countries that they are more likely to be defending Europe and Japan from.

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Yes. Their main reason to exist.

They use the Aster missile which is designed to intercept and destroy a wide range of air threats such as supersonic cruise missiles - which the Russians have a lot of - at either very low altitudes, in other words sea-skimming, and at high altitudes.

They are also used to target fast flying, high performance aircraft.

The Asters are controlled by the Sea Viper missile system which can track multiple targets and launch multiple missiles independently to their targets.

It is the sort of thing you want close to home if you fear lots of Russian jets heading in your direction.

They can stop some missiles.

Tactic is to keep firing missiles til you find what the some is.

A missile costs a small fraction of a destroyer.

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Why would you have all 6 berthed alongside each other in the same port?

In your scenario would they not be better placed spread all round the British Isles?

One would expect, in any heightened situation, that they would be quickly deployed and could be in position within 24 hours.

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I believe that they all have a fundamental engine problem, caused by corner cutting at the ordering stage.

My sis was on exercise one one testing her BAe kit last October when they had to duck out early and return to port with engine trouble - that's when she discovered the problem to be endemic in the type. Her kit worked spectacularly well though.

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Why would you have all 6 berthed alongside each other in the same port?

In your scenario would they not be better placed spread all round the British Isles?

They've obviously not seen Pearl Harbour!

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I believe that they all have a fundamental engine problem, caused by corner cutting at the ordering stage.

My sis was on exercise one one testing her BAe kit last October when they had to duck out early and return to port with engine trouble - that's when she discovered the problem to be endemic in the type. Her kit worked spectacularly well though.

Yes, apparently they do. I am just not convinced that it is such an issue that they all need to be in port at the same time.

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Probably Russia jammed one. Like they did with that destroyer in the Black Sea (which turned around and ran off). The story is that the Russia aircraft was carrying a state-of-the-art jamming system. It rendered all radar, computer screens, tracking systems totally inoperable on the US destroyer and then proceeded to carry out 10 or so mock attack runs on the ship.

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Interestingly, there is probably some truth to it. The Russians do have some have some very interesting portable jamming equipment (as well as they larger ground based ones, like the one in Syria - which can block 400km of airspace and render low orbiting satellites inoperable). They have pods for aircraft etc.

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If the RN was expecting trouble then putting all the ships in the same harbour seems crazy to me. One nuke or surprise attack and it'll wipe out most of the RN's strength.

Probably more a scheduling mix up or the Type-45 mechanical problems are worse than they're letting on.

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Designed to operate in water up to 30C.

Putting an intercooler and heat exchanger on a jet engine when you've never done it before is likely to lead to problems.

So yes, I believe the situation is as reported.

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Probably Russia jammed one. Like they did with that destroyer in the Black Sea (which turned around and ran off). The story is that the Russia aircraft was carrying a state-of-the-art jamming system. It rendered all radar, computer screens, tracking systems totally inoperable on the US destroyer and then proceeded to carry out 10 or so mock attack runs on the ship.

This did cross my mind.

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Think some of this thread is running away with the fairies.

Probably just a scheduling quirk and we are in prime Summer leave time with some ships due back other will be due out in a matter of days..

Traditionally the RN tends to be alongside in late July and August to allow Sailors time to rest and recuperate ahead of redeploying in the autumn - because the RN (after many studies, years of research and finally multiple rocket scientists advice) has discovered that volunteer sailors don't like sailing around off the coast of the UK for shits and giggles when they could be at home with their family ahead of a long deployment.

As usual though, this doesn't stop armchair experts who think the RN buys guns the length of toothbrushes deciding that a perfectly normal summer leave period somehow means we're all doomed.

A RN destroyers main role these days is as an anti air and missile screen to a large battle group or a carrier air wing group.

Larger assets such as the new Aircraft carrier yet to enter service or the current amphibious or chopper/Marine carriers we already deploy will always got to sea with a destroyer escort usually more than one to to provide air cover.

WW2 and the sinking of Prince of Wales and Repulse was the end of the massively gunned battleship, next step up from the dreadnoughts. Huge bastions of power that could be sunk with a single aircraft. Meant tactics had to change and a faster manoeuvrable solution found to protect the larger assets. These are what the destroyers are largely for.

An aircraft carrier is an offensive weapon if you think about it. It would never put to sea without a large protective battle group around it. This would include hunter killer submarines in the vanguard

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Think some of this thread is running away with the fairies.

Probably just a scheduling quirk and we are in prime Summer leave time with some ships due back other will be due out in a matter of days..

Traditionally the RN tends to be alongside in late July and August to allow Sailors time to rest and recuperate ahead of redeploying in the autumn - because the RN (after many studies, years of research and finally multiple rocket scientists advice) has discovered that volunteer sailors don't like sailing around off the coast of the UK for shits and giggles when they could be at home with their family ahead of a long deployment.

As usual though, this doesn't stop armchair experts who think the RN buys guns the length of toothbrushes deciding that a perfectly normal summer leave period somehow means we're all doomed.

A RN destroyers main role these days is as an anti air and missile screen to a large battle group or a carrier air wing group.

Larger assets such as the new Aircraft carrier yet to enter service or the current amphibious or chopper/Marine carriers we already deploy will always got to sea with a destroyer escort usually more than one to to provide air cover.

WW2 and the sinking of Prince of Wales and Repulse was the end of the massively gunned battleship, next step up from the dreadnoughts. Huge bastions of power that could be sunk with a single aircraft. Meant tactics had to change and a faster manoeuvrable solution found to protect the larger assets. These are what the destroyers are largely for.

An aircraft carrier is an offensive weapon if you think about it. It would never put to sea without a large protective battle group around it. This would include hunter killer submarines in the vanguard

Don't blame me if the Russians are in London next week. Hang on, they are already there.

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Think some of this thread is running away with the fairies.

Probably just a scheduling quirk and we are in prime Summer leave time with some ships due back other will be due out in a matter of days..

Taxpayers will have to foot the bill to refit warships that break down in the Persian Gulf when the water becomes too warm, because they are ‘out of warranty’. The Ministry of Defence said the ‘arduous’ conditions that made the £1billion Type 45 Destroyers ‘degrade catastrophically’ were not covered by the guarantee. Engines on the six warships fail because the intercooler units, which reduce heat from the exhaust, slow down in warm waters, leaving the engine unable to generate enough power. Daily Mail

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