University Bubble Making Hissing Sounds

[17 Year Veteran]

4 hours ago, Saving For a Space Ship said:

schools too....

 90% of UK schools will go bust next year, heads warn

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2022/oct/22/exclusive-90-of-uk-schools-will-go-bust-next-year-heads-warn

Could probably cut back the salaries of the senior management of the academies a tad:

 

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/best-paid-trust-ceos-wages-rise-fastest-but-some-rein-in-pay/

[17 Year Veteran]

On 6/26/2022 at 2:00 AM, shlomo said:

Hmmm but which are the 5 highest 

Jeez.

I'd rather do this job:

[highcontrast]

University accomodation crash?

University attendance numbers must be declining rapidly for something like this to happen?

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/leicester-student-flats-houses-council-7727598

Council to buy Leicester student flats for £5.5m to help ease housing crisis

This accomodation is probably the closest walking distance to the university so I'm astonished they can't fill the rooms with students? Not only that but they have spare accomodation too:

 

"The council said it aimed to take over the building by September 1 next year, allowing students currently living there to stay for the full length of their tenancies. The current owner has said it has alternative accommodation for the students to move into if they wish".

Edited October 24, 2022 by highcontrast

[Saving For a Space Ship]

Students go to court for refunds on lockdown degrees

Almost 80,000 students are taking legal action over the costly courses disrupted by Covid

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/234b2a5e-a3b7-11ed-b7e5-9dfcc7cfc218?shareToken=9995865c105a73d32f8476b2a064c220

[Johnno1167]

11 hours ago, Saving For a Space Ship said:

Students go to court for refunds on lockdown degrees

Almost 80,000 students are taking legal action over the costly courses disrupted by Covid

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/234b2a5e-a3b7-11ed-b7e5-9dfcc7cfc218?shareToken=9995865c105a73d32f8476b2a064c220

Utterly ridiculous . What were universities supposed to do ? 

[Si1]

9 minutes ago, Johnno1168 said:

Utterly ridiculous . What were universities supposed to do ? 

They could have cancelled the courses, given the students academic credits for the units they had completed, and refunded them pro rata.

[70PC]

The world has changed. Universities do good things in areas like research but they can't compete with the internet when it comes to the nuts and bolts of most learning. Much course material universities provide on-line for their students is available in the public domain. If you don't get it first time round on the internet, you watch it again. There is value in bringing people together for learn but not at £30-40k per degree. Specific areas involving practical work do need university facilities but this need is different to giant sausage factories that universities have become.

[msi]

25 minutes ago, 70PC said:

The world has changed. Universities do good things in areas like research but they can't compete with the internet when it comes to the nuts and bolts of most learning. Much course material universities provide on-line for their students is available in the public domain. If you don't get it first time round on the internet, you watch it again. There is value in bringing people together for learn but not at £30-40k per degree. Specific areas involving practical work do need university facilities but this need is different to giant sausage factories that universities have become.

There is an untapped market for a new type o f teaching University. Recorded lectures, remote tutorials, and remote but live assessment to break essay farming.  Learn at your own pace then come together for a 4 - 8 week intensive residential to get the cutting edge, find employer experience, and network. All for a fraction of the standard cost.

 

What stops this is the current cartel maintaining the status quo.  Soon as a new provider can show it's graduates are more employable, the game is up for 2nd tier Unis.

 

[Johnno1167]

1 hour ago, Si1 said:

They could have cancelled the courses, given the students academic credits for the units they had completed, and refunded them pro rata.

It’s not like everything stopped. My wife is a lecturer. She continued to give lecture  and give  tutorials online - and private 1 to 1 throughout the pandemic. She marked all the coursework, did all her dissertation supervision etc.. not ideal, though things continued . But there is no capacity in the system to defer everyone 1 year. That would mean double intake in the first year and subsequent years after for 3-4 years as students progress. . Not the facilities or staff to do it . And no budget of course to refund . 
Was a pandemic, circumstances beyond everyone’s control . 

[Johnno1167]

4 minutes ago, msi said:

There is an untapped market for a new type o f teaching University. Recorded lectures, remote tutorials, and remote but live assessment to break essay farming.  Learn at your own pace then come together for a 4 - 8 week intensive residential to get the cutting edge, find employer experience, and network. All for a fraction of the standard cost.

 

What stops this is the current cartel maintaining the status quo.  Soon as a new provider can show it's graduates are more employable, the game is up for 2nd tier Unis.

 

We have it already, called the OU ?

[msi]

4 hours ago, Johnno1168 said:

We have it already, called the OU ?

The OU was a leap when it was created but has been hamstrung preventing it evolving.  This is ripe for a Private sector provider to step in (ironic given the number of drooling loons that cry SoCiAlIsT at me).  The core USP is the employability of students either through skills gained or by already learning on the job.

[TenYearToGetMyMoneyBack]

5 hours ago, Johnno1168 said:

We have it already, called the OU ?

Can anyone remind me what OU prices used to be before mainstream Universities started charging tuition fees?
My wife did an OU degree and I was surprised by how expensive it was, considering they don't have to provide classrooms.etc. I suspect that when my sister did an OU course in the 80s her biggest expense was a video recorder to record the overnight broadcasts on.

[reddog]

7 hours ago, Johnno1168 said:

Utterly ridiculous . What were universities supposed to do ? 

Yes, but they did online learning way longer than needed.  I believe some are still doing online/hybrid learning now.

 

The tution fees were based on face to face learning.

[70PC]

9 minutes ago, TenYearToGetMyMoneyBack said:

Can anyone remind me what OU prices used to be before mainstream Universities started charging tuition fees?
My wife did an OU degree and I was surprised by how expensive it was, considering they don't have to provide classrooms.etc. I suspect that when my sister did an OU course in the 80s her biggest expense was a video recorder to record the overnight broadcasts on.

I don't know the number before but the current price on their website is £3,288 a year. The honours course takes 6 years. I know it is difficult for them but charging £20k for an online learning degree will not last.

[spyguy]

2 hours ago, TenYearToGetMyMoneyBack said:

Can anyone remind me what OU prices used to be before mainstream Universities started charging tuition fees?
My wife did an OU degree and I was surprised by how expensive it was, considering they don't have to provide classrooms.etc. I suspect that when my sister did an OU course in the 80s her biggest expense was a video recorder to record the overnight broadcasts on.

I did look at doing an OU maths/stats degree in the mid to late 90s.

It would have been 1k-2k a year for about 5 years.

[spyguy]

4 hours ago, msi said:

The OU was a leap when it was created but has been hamstrung preventing it evolving.  This is ripe for a Private sector provider to step in (ironic given the number of drooling loons that cry SoCiAlIsT at me).  The core USP is the employability of students either through skills gained or by already learning on the job.

I dont think it was a leap, more a continuation.

Iirc there was a trial remote/distant learning college in the UK where you do o  n a levels.

The OU ramped this up and put broadcast courses via BBC

[spyguy]

2 hours ago, 70PC said:

I don't know the number before but the current price on their website is £3,288 a year. The honours course takes 6 years. I know it is difficult for them but charging £20k for an online learning degree will not last.

I think that was Labours answer to the question, raised why fees were cranked up-

Wont people stop going to physical uni and use the ou instead?

 

[spyguy]

9 hours ago, 70PC said:

The world has changed. Universities do good things in areas like research but they can't compete with the internet when it comes to the nuts and bolts of most learning. Much course material universities provide on-line for their students is available in the public domain. If you don't get it first time round on the internet, you watch it again. There is value in bringing people together for learn but not at £30-40k per degree. Specific areas involving practical work do need university facilities but this need is different to giant sausage factories that universities have become.

Some Unis do good stuff in research.

Can you come up with much useful stuff thats come out UK. HE in the last 20y?

You'll struggle.

It's probably long time to move to split reasearh and teaching universities.

Theres a habit to blame research demands for not teaching.

And teaching demands for not researching.

And thats before acknowledging that most Uni research pointless, derivative junk. 

 

[Johnno1167]

2 hours ago, reddog said:

Yes, but they did online learning way longer than needed.  I believe some are still doing online/hybrid learning now.

 

The tution fees were based on face to face learning.

But universities still have all the fixed overheads of staff, buildings, IT and so on. Majority of funding comes from fees.  Most of them are losing money apart from the Russel group .  So where to find the money ?  Can’t hand back what you don’t have , 
 

plus, the bit that doesn’t get mentioned , is that many students are asking to stay online.  They are living back at home , and remotely connecting in to save accommodation costs as the private rental sector has made it super expensive for students . 

[Johnno1167]

2 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Some Unis do good stuff in research.

Can you come up with much useful stuff thats come out UK. HE in the last 20y?

You'll struggle.

It's probably long time to move to split reasearh and teaching universities.

Theres a habit to blame research demands for not teaching.

And teaching demands for not researching.

And thats before acknowledging that most Uni research pointless, derivative junk. 

 

Are you or I qualified to judge what is junk or been useful across the whole spectrum of the sector in the last 20 years ?  That’s what the past / upcoming REA will do , in addition to the industries that fund research to the tune of £10M’s  a year to institutions throughout the uk  - engineering , pharma, arts, environment , stem and so on .  Your opinion about it being pointless derivative junk isn’t credible , you can’t possible assess and give a valued judgment on it as a whole . 

 if you want true academics to teach higher Ed, and for students to get the best and brightest teaching them ,  you need academics who also do research. The best academics will leave if they don’t have the ability to research -  it’s why they do it - the passion that drives them on. Teaching only staff have a very high turnover and come and go, leaving students with not the best experience . 
 

The real issue is that we have too many students going to university . Many who quite frankly shouldn’t be there . Grade inflation means anyone can get in and get a degree now if you can raise the funds . But not enough jobs to support 50% of school leavers going through HE.  And it’s virtually impossible to fail a student. (Repeated plagiarism being about the only think you can fail a student for ).  We need a better balance of work learning . 
 

[fellow]

11 hours ago, Johnno1168 said:

Utterly ridiculous . What were universities supposed to do ? 

Utterly ridiculous comment. If you went into McDonalds, paid for a Big Mac and they handed you a cheeseburger, would you not want a refund for the difference?

[spyguy]

1 hour ago, Johnno1168 said:

Are you or I qualified to judge what is junk or been useful across the whole spectrum of the sector in the last 20 years ?  That’s what the past / upcoming REA will do , in addition to the industries that fund research to the tune of £10M’s  a year to institutions throughout the uk  - engineering , pharma, arts, environment , stem and so on .  Your opinion about it being pointless derivative junk isn’t credible , you can’t possible assess and give a valued judgment on it as a whole . 

 if you want true academics to teach higher Ed, and for students to get the best and brightest teaching them ,  you need academics who also do research. The best academics will leave if they don’t have the ability to research -  it’s why they do it - the passion that drives them on. Teaching only staff have a very high turnover and come and go, leaving students with not the best experience . 
 

The real issue is that we have too many students going to university . Many who quite frankly shouldn’t be there . Grade inflation means anyone can get in and get a degree now if you can raise the funds . But not enough jobs to support 50% of school leavers going through HE.  And it’s virtually impossible to fail a student. (Repeated plagiarism being about the only think you can fail a student for ).  We need a better balance of work learning . 
 

Again, can you come up with a list of useful andor actual new stuff from  UK HE sector in the last 30y

 

 

[iamnumerate]

11 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Again, can you come up with a list of useful andor actual new stuff from  UK HE sector in the last 30y

 

 

Graphene won a nobel prize.

[spyguy]

7 hours ago, iamnumerate said:

Graphene won a nobel prize.

That was the one I was thinking about.

However, despite the OTT claims of its super powers, an actual practical use of it has sort of hit the buffers.

Maybe the best ever non stick frying pan?

 

 

[btl_hater]

There’s plenty of spin out companies as a result of research performed in U.K. Universities, so the research can’t all be that useless.