Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[Sheeple Splinter]

36 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

l knew all of that but she always managed to divert blame for her many failures onto someone else, My surprise was how quickly she managed to screw up the election campaign.

According to this article she can divert blame onto Crosby, Hill & Timothy:

Quote

...

Sir Lynton is likely to run detailed polls in marginal seats with focus groups of key voters, to ensure that every election message has been rigorously road-tested before it went public.

The Australian strategist was the architect of the Conservative's hugely successful strategy in 2015 to target Liberal Democrat seats in the South West. 

His polling also helped identify voters' fears about the prospect of a Labour coalition with the SNP at an early stage, which proved pivotal in the campaign. Sir Lynton did not take part in the EU referendum despite approaches by senior figures from both the Remain and Leave campaign.

He correctly predicted the outcome of the last General election while most of the public polling companies believed it would be a dead-heat.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/18/sir-lynton-crosby-play-key-role-theresa-mays-general-election/

[EssKay]

34 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

l knew all of that but she always managed to divert blame for her many failures onto someone else, My surprise was how quickly she managed to screw up the election campaign.

 

Overconfidence in a Tory landslide and her innate arrogance led her to over-reach and let the mask slip.

 

 

 

 

[rollover]

Quote

Speaking at a press conference at the G7 meeting in Sicily, Tusk said he was buoyed by a positive conversation with Trump, who has previously suggested other EU countries might follow Britain’s lead.

Tusk said there had been a change of heart, telling journalists: “I was positively surprised by President Trump’s comments on Brexit because it was clear for both of us that in fact the EU27 is more united after Brexit than before.

“I tried to convince him – and I deeply believe – that Brexit is very important and dramatic but just an incident, not a trend. And President Trump agreed. It was for me a very positive moment in our discussion.” Guardian

Brexit plan was divided EU27, but the disunity tactics clearly doesn't work. There is no plan B, and the Tories looks very inflexible to offer one in coming election.

Edited May 26, 2017 by rollover

[EssKay]

43 minutes ago, knock out johnny said:

I think a discussion on terrorism and foreign wars is well overdue

We are 16 years into "the war on terror" with no end in sight

SIXTEEN years and the ensuing blood and treasure on all sides across three quarters of the globe - if that doesn't merit a reexamination of policy I don't know what does

It's well overdue but it's very dangerous territory for Corbyn.

 

He's already been painted as a terrorist sympathiser and letting the remainder of the election campaign get sidetracked onto that topic will only let May off the hook for her gaffes.

 

He should have kept quiet

[Sheeple Splinter]

15 minutes ago, knock out johnny said:

Weighting could be applied in the selection process

Jocasta and Piers with their three A's from a grammar school score less than DeShorne and Tannika from Toxteth Comprehensive with an A and two B's - or at the very least Deshorne and Tannika invited for interview

In which case the red's will need to consider the impact on one of their revenue streams i.e. removing VAT exemption on private school fees.

[EssKay]

1 hour ago, knock out johnny said:

I think a discussion on terrorism and foreign wars is well overdue

We are 16 years into "the war on terror" with no end in sight

SIXTEEN years and the ensuing blood and treasure on all sides across three quarters of the globe - if that doesn't merit a reexamination of policy I don't know what does

It's well overdue but it's very dangerous territory for Corbyn.

 

He's already been painted as a terrorist sympathiser and letting the remainder of the election campaign get sidetracked onto that topic will only let May off the hook for her gaffes.

 

He should have kept quiet

[knock out johnny]

1 hour ago, EssKay said:

It's well overdue but it's very dangerous territory for Corbyn.

 

He's already been painted as a terrorist sympathiser and letting the remainder of the election campaign get sidetracked onto that topic will only let May off the hook for her gaffes.

 

He should have kept quiet

I disagree, people's mindset is changing. They've realised the neoliberal snake oil of regime change is not working

Manchester bombing and what does May do? A militarist response- Troops on the streets and trying to engage NATO for who knows what jolly jape in Brownland - it's not working, it's not going to work and it hasn't worked.

We all know this now and he's articulating it

Edited May 26, 2017 by knock out johnny

[rollover]

1 hour ago, EssKay said:

It's well overdue but it's very dangerous territory for Corbyn.

 

He's already been painted as a terrorist sympathiser and letting the remainder of the election campaign get sidetracked onto that topic will only let May off the hook for her gaffes.

 

He should have kept quiet

Yes, he's been painted by some media. But he doesn't look to me it's his ideology, just the opposite.

Regardless, he does not appear as charismatic leader.

Edited May 26, 2017 by rollover

[smash]

1 hour ago, rollover said:

Brexit plan was divided EU27, but the disunity tactics clearly doesn't work. There is no plan B, and the Tories looks very inflexible to offer one in coming election.

We've got ourselves on a lifeboat off the Titanic - Monsieur Farage

Geert Wilders was going to sweep to power in the Netherlands, Le Pen will win in France.......

[rollover]

.

Edited May 26, 2017 by rollover

[EssKay]

59 minutes ago, knock out johnny said:

I disagree, people's mindset is changing. They've realised the neoliberal snake oil of regime change is not working

Manchester bombing and what does May do? A militarist response- Troops on the streets and trying to engage NATO for who knows what jolly jape in Brownland - it's not working, it's not going to work and it hasn't worked.

We all know this now and he's articulating it

 

Yes - but are there enough open minded people that he'll appeal to as a result of taking that stance to make a difference?

 

Or will he only succeed in alienating the middle ground waverers that seemed to have been shifting over to his side?

 

 

 

 

[pig]

1 hour ago, EssKay said:

 

Yes - but are there enough open minded people that he'll appeal to as a result of taking that stance to make a difference?

 

Or will he only succeed in alienating the middle ground waverers that seemed to have been shifting over to his side?

 

 

 

 

Thinking about it this tuition fee thing is not just about the yoof vote. There could be a lot of parents who are holding their nose and hoping for a miracle. In a way I wouldn't be as shocked by a Corbyn win as much as a May loss.

[ccc]

2 hours ago, smash said:

We've got ourselves on a lifeboat off the Titanic - Monsieur Farage

Geert Wilders was going to sweep to power in the Netherlands, Le Pen will win in France.......

They both almost did.

And just 5 years ago even the thought of that would have put you firmly in the nutjob category. 

This idea that because the EU hasn't collapsed within 6 months so it's all back to "Normal" is quite embarrassing really. 

Nothing goes in a straight line. I would think that any poster on this site would know this without a prompt.

So - fire away - anyone want to state they think the general movement of the EU is in the upwards direction ? 

[pig]

1 minute ago, ccc said:

They both almost did.

And just 5 years ago even the thought of that would have put you firmly in the nutjob category. 

This idea that because the EU hasn't collapsed within 6 months so it's all back to "Normal" is quite embarrassing really. 

Nothing goes in a straight line. I would think that any poster on this site would know this without a prompt.

So - fire away - anyone want to state they think the general movement of the EU is in the upwards direction ? 

No, but relative to us it is.

[ccc]

34 minutes ago, pig said:

No, but relative to us it is.

Answer the question. Without any relativity. 

Is - generally - the EU heading up or down ? 

Go on - just type it. You know it - I know it - we all know it.

[Sheeple Splinter]

4 hours ago, EssKay said:

It's well overdue but it's very dangerous territory for Corbyn.

He's already been painted as a terrorist sympathiser and letting the remainder of the election campaign get sidetracked onto that topic will only let May off the hook for her gaffes.

He should have kept quiet

 

4 hours ago, knock out johnny said:

I disagree, people's mindset is changing. They've realised the neoliberal snake oil of regime change is not working

Manchester bombing and what does May do? A militarist response- Troops on the streets and trying to engage NATO for who knows what jolly jape in Brownland - it's not working, it's not going to work and it hasn't worked.

We all know this now and he's articulating it

Definitely a high risk strategy played against May's suite of perceived strengths:

Quote

...The Tory lead is clearly continuing to fall away at a rapid rate. On the face of it one might be tempted to conclude that the actual impact of the bombing was to help the Labour party, but I think it more likely that it’s to do with the disastrous Tory manifesto launch. I posted earlier about the negative impact of the Tory manifesto. In contrast the Tories still seem to have a good lead on security and terrorism – in today’s YouGov survey people say they trust Theresa May far more than Jeremy Corbyn to make the right decisions on terrorism (55% trust May, only 33% trust Corbyn) and the Tories have a strong lead on the issue of Defence and Security. That suggests to me the cause of the narrowing is far more likely to be the manifesto, row and u-turn.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/    (Kantar 25/5...)

Can he produce some aces?

I can't get past his previous U-turns and inabilty to get his own party's MP's onside*. How would he cope with high level negotiations and making difficult decisions?

Hmmm, wonder what those MP's that stood down are thinking now?

[Sheeple Splinter]

3 hours ago, smash said:

We've got ourselves on a lifeboat off the Titanic - Monsieur Farage

Geert Wilders was going to sweep to power in the Netherlands, Le Pen will win in France.......

Do you think the EU will just let you clamber back onboard then?

[pig]

47 minutes ago, ccc said:

Answer the question. Without any relativity. 

Is - generally - the EU heading up or down ? 

Go on - just type it. You know it - I know it - we all know it.

If you can't wrap your head around one sentence what hope is there for you lol?

[Peter Hun]

10 hours ago, ccc said:

They both almost did.

And just 5 years ago even the thought of that would have put you firmly in the nutjob category. 

This idea that because the EU hasn't collapsed within 6 months so it's all back to "Normal" is quite embarrassing really. 

Nothing goes in a straight line. I would think that any poster on this site would know this without a prompt.

So - fire away - anyone want to state they think the general movement of the EU is in the upwards direction ? 

Yes, the EU is in a upwards direction and the UK is going down. Largely because the Brexit nutjobs are in greater numbers.

[EssKay]

11 hours ago, pig said:

Thinking about it this tuition fee thing is not just about the yoof vote. There could be a lot of parents who are holding their nose and hoping for a miracle. In a way I wouldn't be as shocked by a Corbyn win as much as a May loss.

For me, this election will be the ultimate test of a Jam today, populist campaign vs a dour, mean-spirited "realist" campaign.

 

I'd be shocked by a May loss but not as shocked as I would have been a few weeks ago. May has single handedly thrown away probably the greatest pre-election poll lead in a generation. 

 

10 hours ago, Sheeple Splinter said:

 

Definitely a high risk strategy played against May's suite of perceived strengths:

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/    (Kantar 25/5...)

Can he produce some aces?

I can't get past his previous U-turns and inabilty to get his own party's MP's onside*. How would he cope with high level negotiations and making difficult decisions?

Hmmm, wonder what those MP's that stood down are thinking now?

 

He's already produced some aces - tuition fees, keeping the triple lock and the position on benefits and the minimum wage. If he lets terrorism and immigration dominate the rest of the campaign though - he'll lose the momentum he's gained. 

 

I'm with you though - any "leader" who can't rally his own party round him really shouldn't be considered PM material. 

 

His fundamental flaw is he's a head in the clouds socialist who has never had to deliver anything or even held any kind of meaningful position. He would get taken advantage of in negotiations, would avoid difficult decisions and would fiddle as Rome burned in any major crisis.

 

If he did somehow get into power though, his one saving grace would probably be the fact that he does actually appear to listen to people and does seem willing to have people with opposing views in the team around him. Unlike May..

 

 

Edited May 27, 2017 by EssKay

[ZeroSumGame]

May, Macron Clash on Timetable for Brexit Talks in First Meeting Bloomberg

Quote

• Macron tells May U.K.’s exit bill must be settled before trade
• May says trade talks and exit terms must be discussed together

I don't know why she even bothers negotiating and irritating all the European folk  . Just pull out with her extreme BREXIT and be done.   #WeakAnd Wobbly

[ccc]

11 hours ago, pig said:

If you can't wrap your head around one sentence what hope is there for you lol?

You used the word 'relative'. It was not necessary.

2 hours ago, Peter Hun said:

Yes, the EU is in a upwards direction and the UK is going down. Largely because the Brexit nutjobs are in greater numbers.

Ok well cheers for being honest. I have no idea how you can think the above though.

The EU has continually grown throughout its entire history. That has now reversed. 

8 minutes ago, ZeroSumGame said:

May, Macron Clash on Timetable for Brexit Talks in First Meeting Bloomberg

I don't know why she even bothers negotiating and irritating all the European folk  . Just pull out with her extreme BREXIT and be done.   #WeakAnd Wobbly

Looks like it's going to end up that way anyway. We need to just get it done asap.

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

9 minutes ago, ZeroSumGame said:

May, Macron Clash on Timetable for Brexit Talks in First Meeting Bloomberg

I don't know why she even bothers negotiating and irritating all the European folk  . Just pull out with her extreme BREXIT and be done.   #WeakAnd Wobbly

Of course even the most extreme Tory hardliners won't do that, as they know the UK would sink below the waves, and we'd soon be clambering back onto the European Cruise Ship and having to use their currency.

As I have said before, Brexit is a short cut to the UK adopting the Euro.

[knock out johnny]

13 hours ago, ccc said:

Answer the question. Without any relativity. 

And this is why it is pointless discussing things with you

You don't do relative

You don't do nuance

You do 100% simples

Debate with you is tedious and pointless

Keep it up

[ccc]

39 minutes ago, knock out johnny said:

And this is why it is pointless discussing things with you

You don't do relative

You don't do nuance

You do 100% simples

Debate with you is tedious and pointless

Keep it up

What do you think - is the EU on an upwards or downwards trajectory. No relativeness required.

I've provided my answer to this very simple question.

Downward.

Now what's yours ?