knock out johnny Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 (edited) 43 minutes ago, ccc said: A politicians type answer. For someone usually having no problem with being straight up and to the point - you are awfully waffly with this one...... Have you stopped beating your wife? Yes or no? Tell me why you are so unhappy with my answer? A politician's answer would be to lie to appease people who want meaningless answers to an overly simplistic question I gave an honest answer after consideration. Some people find comfort in simplistic easily digestible untruths. That really is not my problem - it's yours. Edited May 28, 2017 by knock out johnny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 34 minutes ago, knock out johnny said: Have you stopped beating your wife? Yes or no? Tell me why you are so unhappy with my answer? I don't have a wife . See the above ^ There is an example of a straightforward answer. Try it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knock out johnny Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 17 minutes ago, ccc said: I don't have a wife . See the above ^ There is an example of a straightforward answer. Try it. We'll done. You realised a binary answer would be an absurdity We are making progress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 1 minute ago, knock out johnny said: We'll done. You realised a binary answer would be an absurdity We are making progress You still haven't answered. The EU. Heading up or down ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Liebenstein Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Brexit starting to get watered down by May https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/27/eu-theresa-may-combat-terror-brexit-europol This is why the knives are out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knock out johnny Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 28 minutes ago, ccc said: You still haven't answered. The EU. Heading up or down ? Oh yes I have. Is it panto season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 34 minutes ago, knock out johnny said: We'll done. You realised a binary answer would be an absurdity We are making progress If you believe ccc's questin is of that variety then the honest response would be to give an honest explanation as to why. In the case of the "Beat your wife" question it obviously relies on having done that, therefore saying "I can't answer yes or no because I never have beathen my wife" or "I'm not married" is a perfectly viable, straightforward, honest answer and rather different from typical political dodging-around-the-question type answers. Saying "I'm not going to get bogged down into being sidetracked" is a rather more difficult, it can be reasonable or not depending upon the exact circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 13 hours ago, pig said: I suspect that the Duterte oddity is tied up with the nationalist cult of the 'strong(stable) man'. Many Leavers seem not only desperate for this political current to break up the EU for the purposes of self-justification, but also share in its values. Oh and er...Putin. I've not seen much evidence of that, Errol doesn't speak for all Leavers The EU is such an odious organisation that anyone in their right mind should be happy to see it broken up, although significant reform would be much better. Breaking up would only be a roundabout to such reform anyway, and as has been pointed out in this thread often enough it will happen if it carries on the way it's going. The UK's had enough and whilst the anti-EU sentiment in France and the Netherlands isn't as high anyone who ignores the fact its grown to the stage where it was a significant factor in elections is burying their head in the sand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 1 hour ago, knock out johnny said: Oh yes I have. Is it panto season? If you have then please quote it. I will happily be proven wrong. In fact I would actually like it. I'm just interested in the view on this of "remainers". If someone thinks the general direction for the EU is down - but they still believe we are better off in it just now ? Fine. I would respect their honesty on the matter. If another person thinks the trend is up ? For the life of me I have no idea where they are coming from - but respect their opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knock out johnny Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 42 minutes ago, ccc said: If you have then please quote it. I will happily be proven wrong. In fact I would actually like it. I'm just interested in the view on this of "remainers". If someone thinks the general direction for the EU is down - but they still believe we are better off in it just now ? Fine. I would respect their honesty on the matter. If another person thinks the trend is up ? For the life of me I have no idea where they are coming from - but respect their opinion. On 2017-5-27 at 0:51 PM, knock out johnny said: I think in some aspects things are going well in the Eu and in others not so well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Ok - I saw that before. What's your overall opinion on the existence and general point of the EU ? I have made it clear I think it's on a downward trajectory. If you think otherwise - up to you. I would be interested to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knock out johnny Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 3 minutes ago, ccc said: Ok - I saw that before. What's your overall opinion on the existence and general point of the EU ? I have made it clear I think it's on a downward trajectory. If you think otherwise - up to you. I would be interested to know. I have no intention to give a one word up or down answer, so please stop with me now. I've given my answer- if this was an exam and you were marking I'd no doubt have failed. I can live with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knock out johnny Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 3 hours ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said: Brexit starting to get watered down by May https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/27/eu-theresa-may-combat-terror-brexit-europol This is why the knives are out. It will be spun by Leave that it's the nasty Eu not cooperating and happily standing by as we get blown up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 1 hour ago, knock out johnny said: I have no intention to give a one word up or down answer, so please stop with me now. I've given my answer- if this was an exam and you were marking I'd no doubt have failed. I can live with that. Ok. Let's agree to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will! Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 On 14/05/2017 at 0:32 AM, thecrashingisles said: The GFA doesn't say anything about arrangements between Northern Ireland and the mainland. This approach would mean moving the 'hard border' problem from the line between NI and Ireland and putting it in the Irish sea instead where there is a geographical barrier anyway so the impact would be much less. This remains (ahem) a very good idea. Freedom of movement between Northern Ireland and the Republic, the carrot for NI politicians of even greater political autonomy to keep the peace and even a boost for Liverpool's economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Do you also get the Brexit unease that the momentum is turning out for Corbyn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 10 hours ago, Riedquat said: I've not seen much evidence of that, Errol doesn't speak for all Leavers The EU is such an odious organisation that anyone in their right mind should be happy to see it broken up, although significant reform would be much better. Breaking up would only be a roundabout to such reform anyway, and as has been pointed out in this thread often enough it will happen if it carries on the way it's going. The UK's had enough and whilst the anti-EU sentiment in France and the Netherlands isn't as high anyone who ignores the fact its grown to the stage where it was a significant factor in elections is burying their head in the sand. Well of course there is. All these far right leaders go wobbly at the knees at Putins strongstableness, riding ponies half-naked, WWF, silly hand-shakes are all staple acts in this macabre circus. Farage will of course 'pick up a rifle' if he doesn't get what he wants and there's been plenty of squealing about blood on the streets and treason on this thread. Half the nation has been mercilessly bullied by the EU via the Daily Mail et al - you can see why they think they need somebody strongstable to stick up for them. Could be wrong, but it doesn't seem to make sense in 'geo-political' terms to drool over Duterte, it does however in terms of this kind of craven politics. Reshaping global politics following Putins 'shining' example is what they've explicitly craved. 'Odious' is an peculiar adjective for the EU, but this lot trying to break it up is a bit like a congress of paedophiles passionately advocating the breaking up of a school with problems in favour of setting up 'free' schools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 21 minutes ago, rollover said: Do you also get the Brexit unease that the momentum is turning out for Corbyn? Well, people aren't meant to want actual change - just the reactionary sort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slawek Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 17 minutes ago, pig said: Well of course there is. All these far right leaders go wobbly at the knees at Putins strongstableness, riding ponies half-naked, WWF, silly hand-shakes are all staple acts in this macabre circus. Farage will of course 'pick up a rifle' if he doesn't get what he wants and there's been plenty of squealing about blood on the streets and treason on this thread. Half the nation has been mercilessly bullied by the EU via the Daily Mail et al - you can see why they think they need somebody strongstable to stick up for them. Could be wrong, but it doesn't seem to make sense in 'geo-political' terms to drool over Duterte, it does however in terms of this kind of craven politics. Reshaping global politics following Putins 'shining' example is what they've explicitly craved. 'Odious' is an peculiar adjective for the EU, but this lot trying to break it up is a bit like a congress of paedophiles passionately advocating the breaking up of a school with problems in favour of setting up 'free' schools. Strange times we live in. Not religious but even CoE has noticed this. "Rowan Williams has warned of the dangers of “messianic leadership” arising from disillusion in the political process, saying lessons need to be learned from Germany in the 1930s." "The former archbishop of Canterbury also said many Britons were peering into the abyss following last year’s Brexit referendum." “One of the things [the author] notes is the deep disillusion in politics, and the romantic, idealistic feeling that if we get the right leader, then things will change. As trust in conventional politics goes down, expectations of messianic leadership go up,” https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/21/rowan-williams-britons-are-peering-into-the-abyss-after-brexit-vote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 (edited) . Quote "Rowan Williams has warned of the dangers of “messianic leadership” arising from disillusion in the political process, saying lessons need to be learned from Germany in the 1930s." He might have added something about disillusion about money printing etc as well. Plenty of people have been peering into the abyss without Brexit. I imagine he's inflation proofed etc though. Edited May 28, 2017 by billybong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 17 minutes ago, slawek said: Strange times we live in. Not religious but even CoE has noticed this. "Rowan Williams has warned of the dangers of “messianic leadership” arising from disillusion in the political process, saying lessons need to be learned from Germany in the 1930s." "The former archbishop of Canterbury also said many Britons were peering into the abyss following last year’s Brexit referendum." “One of the things [the author] notes is the deep disillusion in politics, and the romantic, idealistic feeling that if we get the right leader, then things will change. As trust in conventional politics goes down, expectations of messianic leadership go up,” https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/21/rowan-williams-britons-are-peering-into-the-abyss-after-brexit-vote I would compare it to the Socialist revolution in Russia ( in October 1917 ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 7 hours ago, Will! said: This remains (ahem) a very good idea. Freedom of movement between Northern Ireland and the Republic, the carrot for NI politicians of even greater political autonomy to keep the peace and even a boost for Liverpool's economy. It may be the case that the Rep. Ireland will have to leave the single market if this occurs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 (edited) ^ guardian link Quote “One of the things [the author] notes is the deep disillusion in politics, and the romantic, idealistic feeling that if we get the right leader, then things will change. As trust in conventional politics goes down, expectations of messianic leadership go up,” I imagine it's just too much to ask and too idealistic that as trust in conventional politics goes down they would do something to remedy it to regain trust in conventional politics. That would be too much to expect. Edited May 28, 2017 by billybong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 3 minutes ago, billybong said: ^ guardian link I imagine it's just too much to ask and too idealistic that as trust in conventional politics goes down they would do something to remedy it to regain trust in conventional politics. That would be too much to expect. Of course it's too much to expect. Far easier to not bother and draw simple-minded comparisons with unpleasant incidents in the past. It's easier to try to scare people into sticking with the increasingly dire "normal" situation than try to fix it, and there are enough useful fools around still defending the broken status quo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 1 hour ago, pig said: 'Odious' is an peculiar adjective for the EU, but this lot trying to break it up is a bit like a congress of paedophiles passionately advocating the breaking up of a school with problems in favour of setting up 'free' schools. Odious is a reasonable enough word for something unpleasant. It could be equally well applied to, say, someone who goes around comparing people they disagree with to paedophiles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.