crouch Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 17 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said: In my opinion that poster had a definite agenda. These are his posts that sandwich the one you quoted. https://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/210294-brexit-what-happens-next-thread-multiple-merged-threads/&do=findComment&comment=1103569971 https://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/210294-brexit-what-happens-next-thread-multiple-merged-threads/&do=findComment&comment=1103569975 Ah maybe but I adress posts not agendas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugsbody Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 On 29/04/2020 at 09:21, richmondtw said: Remoaners will continue to be fanatically obsessed with their dislike for this project that goes against their desire for a homogenised socialist federal Europe. No, I dislike liars lying to achieve their ideological obsessions. On 29/04/2020 at 09:21, richmondtw said: However all that matters is a vote that took place in summer 2016. Yes, I'm well aware that is all that matters, despite it being based on lies and deception. That isn't a good thing which I think you'd realise if you were on the other side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huggy Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 3 hours ago, dugsbody said: No, I dislike liars lying to achieve their ideological obsessions. Yes, I'm well aware that is all that matters, despite it being based on lies and deception. That isn't a good thing which I think you'd realise if you were on the other side. I agree with this. I dislike liars lying to achieve their ideological obsessions as much as the next man: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36534192 Maybe the majority would have been bigger had these lies not have been said, and the Brexit we voted for would have been enacted earlier, and maybe Boris would not have a stonking majority now. Maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debtlessmanc Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 10 hours ago, slawek said: Defend from what? homogeneity, lack of diversity. is that not a common fear across the planet? The us is/has been very successful at integration because, at the end of the day, its culture is its own and has been developed by refugees from worse places (at the time). There is no simple answer to this but as the french prime minister Laurent Fabius said of the far right, they propose the wrong answers, but the problem is they are asking the right questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 7 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said: homogeneity, lack of diversity. is that not a common fear across the planet? The us is/has been very successful at integration because, at the end of the day, its culture is its own and has been developed by refugees from worse places (at the time). There is no simple answer to this but as the french prime minister Laurent Fabius said of the far right, they propose the wrong answers, but the problem is they are asking the right questions. What are the right questions the far right are asking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debtlessmanc Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Dorkins said: What are the right questions the far right are asking? ask Laurent Fabius (he is a socialist). I guess he was talking about integration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 Just now, debtlessmanc said: ask Laurent Fabius (he is a socialist). I guess he was talking about integration. You were clearly repeating Fabius' quote because you agree with him, so what are the right questions the far right are asking? The word "integration" is not a question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debtlessmanc Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Dorkins said: You were clearly repeating Fabius' quote because you agree with him, so what are the right questions the far right are asking? The word "integration" is not a question. do i agree with him? i am not sure, it is a soundbite but an interesting one. The far right has an appeal -34% of the french vote last time. It is important to understand why i guess. i personally have always rejected any appeal it might have, indeed my great uncle was in the division that liberated Belsen, he told me of his experience. It is the ultimate evil as a philosophy, but it has appeal to so many and we should try to understand why. versions of it appeal to minorities too, eg islamic fundamentalism. What is your answer to it other than eg the kind og homogenisation the soviet union desired? Edited May 1, 2020 by debtlessmanc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said: do i agree with him? i am not sure, it is a soundbite but an interesting one. The far right has an appeal -34% of the french vote last time. It is important to understand why i guess. i personally have always rejected any appeal it might have, indeed my great uncle was in the division that liberated Belsen, he told me of his experience. It is the ultimate evil as a philosophy, but it has appeal to so many and we should try to understand why. versions of it appeal to minorities too, eg islamic fundamentalism. What it your answer other than eg the kind og homogenisation the soviet union desired? What's my answer to what question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debtlessmanc Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Dorkins said: What's my answer to what question? what to do about the rise of the right, sorry i though it was obvious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slawek Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 1 hour ago, debtlessmanc said: homogeneity, lack of diversity. is that not a common fear across the planet? The us is/has been very successful at integration because, at the end of the day, its culture is its own and has been developed by refugees from worse places (at the time). There is no simple answer to this but as the french prime minister Laurent Fabius said of the far right, they propose the wrong answers, but the problem is they are asking the right questions. So you want to defend local cultural norms from homogeneity. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 17 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said: what to do about the rise of the right, sorry i though it was obvious I think like any political group they should have representation in parliament in proportion to their support among the electorate, the FPTP system used for Westminster elections could quite easily hand majority government to a far right party with 34% support and it could then pass weird constitutional changes as in Greece and Hungary which would give an extra 50 or 100 MPs to the largest party in order to secure its ability to rule as a single party for a long time. Very hard for that to happen with proportional representation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpeggio Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 11 minutes ago, Dorkins said: proportional representation. Don't know what the past of this particular conversations is about but I agree we need PR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debtlessmanc Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 49 minutes ago, slawek said: So you want to defend local cultural norms from homogeneity. Why? Diversity- well anarchism really, to give people the choice what kind of society and rules to live under. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debtlessmanc Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 39 minutes ago, Dorkins said: I think like any political group they should have representation in parliament in proportion to their support among the electorate, the FPTP system used for Westminster elections could quite easily hand majority government to a far right party with 34% support and it could then pass weird constitutional changes as in Greece and Hungary which would give an extra 50 or 100 MPs to the largest party in order to secure its ability to rule as a single party for a long time. Very hard for that to happen with proportional representation. if 51% of people are fascists, what do you do then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 4 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said: if 51% of people are fascists, what do you do then? Emigrate out of harm's way and let them get on with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 3 hours ago, debtlessmanc said: homogeneity, lack of diversity. is that not a common fear across the planet? The us is/has been very successful at integration because, at the end of the day, its culture is its own and has been developed by refugees from worse places (at the time). There is no simple answer to this but as the french prime minister Laurent Fabius said of the far right, they propose the wrong answers, but the problem is they are asking the right questions. Yeah, scousers and mancs are petrified they'll start supporting each others teams. Glaswegians are petrified Cornish people will adopt deep fried mars bars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smash Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 There is something special about my culture. Yawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debtlessmanc Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 7 hours ago, pig said: Yeah, scousers and mancs are petrified they'll start supporting each others teams. Glaswegians are petrified Cornish people will adopt deep fried mars bars. Yes Tbh even the loss of regional accents within the U.K. is a cultural loss of sorts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smash Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said: Yes Tbh even the loss of regional accents within the U.K. is a cultural loss of sorts Stop p1ssing and moaning about attacks on you supposed culture. Go and live in a culture that lives in mud huts and worships the JuJu in the volcano, an equally valid culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debtlessmanc Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 7 hours ago, smash said: There is something special about my culture. Yawn. It would be difficult for others to maintain this delusion (and I agree it is a delusion) if the flow of migration was anything other than into the uk. By that I mean even from developed countries like Italy and France, (when you ignore people who move for weather reasons - which I think it is reasonable to do) the EU screwed up over the single currency simple fact. Helmet Kohl amongst many other Germans warned the rest of the Eu that Germany would never mutualise debt and now we see zombie economies all over the EU. The pandemic is just about as bad a thing as could happen as it hits tourism the worst. It was always about greed from France and other Eu states. Let just go back to the old EEC and be happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debtlessmanc Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 1 minute ago, smash said: Stop p1ssing and moaning about attacks on you supposed culture. Go and live in a culture that lives in mud huts and worships the JuJu in the volcano, an equally valid culture. It's not the EU killing local accents - happy now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smash Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 (edited) I think i've got it, and pertinent to HPC. Its Cultural Nimbyism Edited May 2, 2020 by smash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugsbody Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 (edited) 58 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said: It was always about greed from France and other Eu states. No, it wasn't.Fundamental misunderstanding. You'll never get further to correcting your views unless you clear that up. Probably you view it that way because that is all the UK ever saw the EU as, a short term view of benefit to the UK. Not looking at the bigger picture. Edited May 2, 2020 by dugsbody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debtlessmanc Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, dugsbody said: No, it wasn't.Fundamental misunderstanding. You'll never get further to correcting your views unless you clear that up. Probably you view it that way because that is all the UK ever saw the EU as, a short term view of benefit to the UK. Not looking at the bigger picture. Read about it in the German press https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/the-price-of-unity-was-the-deutsche-mark-sacrificed-for-reunification-a-719940.html france felt economically disadvantaged by the franc and demanded monetary union in exchange for Germany reunification. The Germans resent it to the modern day. "Mutualisation of debt will not happen in my lifetime" Angela Merkel Edited May 2, 2020 by debtlessmanc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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