Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[HairyOb1]

39 minutes ago, smash said:

I was cycle touring with a mate in Normandy just a few weeks ago and we were having it big time on the food and drink. Oh lordy it was a proper lads holiday, and i'm not talking just wine, its all the local beers and of course the Cidre. Divine consumption.

I came back home through Normandy, stayed a couple of days and sampled its delights.  Sounds like a cracking time.  Keep threatening to cycle to the south of France with a good friend of mine, seems a cracking holiday.

[Dorkins]

1 hour ago, HairyOb1 said:

BRexit In Name Only

Yes I get what it stands for, but what is it policywise? BRINO = still in both single market and customs union?

[rollover]

Whirlpool of no-deal brexit pulling hard Brexiters against each other.

 

Quote

 

David Davis takes on Boris in bid to become the Brexiteer PM

David Davis dismisses Johnson’s chances of ever becoming Tory leader and PM. He argues Boris does not have enough support among Tory MPs to win a contest.

Claims angered Mr Johnson’s supporters who say Davis would be disaster as PM.

Mr Davis’s embryonic campaign team believes that Tory MPs have been ‘alienated’ by Mr Johnson’s attacks on the Prime Minister and what they claim is an attempt to use party activists to pressurise MPs into voting for him.

But a furious supporter of Mr Johnson said: ‘David Davis and his allies are telling everyone who will listen that he can be the “father of the nation” and deliver Brexit.

Daily Mail

 

 

 

[rollover]

Quote

 

Labour MPs reveal they are ready to rescue Theresa May's Brexit deal in Commons vote

Multiple Labour MPs have told The Independent they are prepared to support the Brexit agreement Theresa May hopes to bring back from Brussels, boosting the prime minister’s chances of forcing it through parliament.

They say that crashing out of the EU would be a disaster for their constituents, while also fearing a backlash from voters accusing them of blocking Brexit.

Independent

 

If Theresa May's Brexit deal will go through parliament, it will be checkmate for Brexit no-dealers.

[macca13]

3 hours ago, yelims said:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/no-deal-brexit-consumers-face-catastrophic-consequences-which-research-a8580131.html

Millions of consumers face immediate 'catastrophic' consequences from no-deal Brexit, says Which?

That’s because we are overpopulated.. we can’t feed ourselves as there are too many people and not enough land.. we need imports.. 

before immigration reproduction rates were 1.3, we had a declining population.. that’s why the evil that control this world decided to open the boarders and reduce our living standards for money!

now we have too many people and not enough resources.. 

Good job we don’t have catastrophic climate change heading our way effecting global food resources.. 

[Bruce Banner]

Slightly tongue in cheek, but how about a coalition led by Farage to achieve Brexit, followed by a general election.

[rollover]

6 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

Slightly tongue in cheek, but how about a coalition led by Farage to achieve Brexit, followed by a general election.

? good idea! Put all blame on Farage now for everything that goes wrong with the Brexit.

[Bruce Banner]

24 minutes ago, rollover said:

? good idea! Put all blame on Farage now for everything that goes wrong with the Brexit.

I was thinking more along the lines of... Farage put the Brexit wheels in motion and he understands the European parliament. Of all the current crop of politicians I can think of no one more likely to negotiate a Brexit acceptable to the majority who voted for it in the referendum.

[Dorkins]

1 minute ago, Bruce Banner said:

I was thinking more along the lines of... Farage put the Brexit wheels in motion and he understands the European parliament. Of all the current crop of politicians I can think of no one more likely to negotiate a Brexit acceptable to the majority who voted for it in the referendum.

How can anybody know what would be "acceptable to the majority who voted for [leaving the EU] in the referendum"?  If leavers want a mandate for a specific form of leaving the EU they should be campaigning for a second referendum with a more detailed set of options. Without that the only mandate is leaving the EU and it's up to politicians to work out the details.

[HairyOb1]

1 hour ago, Dorkins said:

Yes I get what it stands for, but what is it policywise? BRINO = still in both single market and customs union?

Effectively.  Rule taker not maker.  Norway --

54 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

Slightly tongue in cheek, but how about a coalition led by Farage to achieve Brexit, followed by a general election.

He's unelected first, so I'd imagine with most Brexiteers requirement that they don't like dealing with unelected officials, I think that's a no go.

I'd prefer a GE run with Brexit as the main course.  Then Brexit or not brexit personally.

[Dorkins]

5 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said:

Effectively.  Rule taker not maker.  Norway --

Fair enough. I'd say it's more EU- than Norway- because the UK will still be in CAP, CFP etc. Sounds like EU- until Dec 2021 will be the big deal to be announced this week. Sort of the opposite of "taking back control". Impressive that it's taken 2.5 years of negotiations to agree that.

[Dorkins]

10 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said:

I'd prefer a GE run with Brexit as the main course.  Then Brexit or not brexit personally.

Not sure a GE will clarify anything about what The British People Voted For because both main parties will likely just do the same as they did in GE2017: say they are committed to leaving the EU and give zero details about how they intend to do it.

[HairyOb1]

3 minutes ago, Dorkins said:

Fair enough. I'd say it's more EU- than Norway- because the UK will still be in CAP, CFP etc. Sounds like EU- until Dec 2021 will be the big deal to be announced this week. Sort of the opposite of "taking back control". Impressive that it's taken 2.5 years of negotiations to agree that.

To be honest, I think Dec 2021 would be extremely unlikely.  I think the EU are being cute about this backstop not having a finite lifetime in that they'd need full agreement to end it, and if there isn't full agreement, the can continues to be kicked.

Remember, in all of that time, we'll have no say in the Rules, but would have to enforce them too.  It's not a big leap in the dark to think we could be forced to accept rules not really in the country's best interest.

The opening of Pandoras box you might say.

[Bruce Banner]

16 minutes ago, Dorkins said:

How can anybody know what would be "acceptable to the majority who voted for [leaving the EU] in the referendum"?  If leavers want a mandate for a specific form of leaving the EU they should be campaigning for a second referendum with a more detailed set of options. Without that the only mandate is leaving the EU and it's up to politicians to work out the details.

Hard Brexit it is then, as the people almost certainly didn't think they were voting for the nonsense deal May is proposing.

Hard Brexit and sort it out from there seems the best option from where we are now, although I would be happy with a second referendum to clarify what really is the will of the people.

[Dorkins]

2 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

Hard Brexit it is then, as the people almost certainly didn't think they were voting for the nonsense deal May is proposing.

Hard Brexit and sort it out from there seems the best option from where we are now, although I would be happy with a second referendum to clarify what really is the will of the people.

So maybe a good question is, if leaver politicians are so certain they know what the Will of The People is and it aligns with their preferred form of Brexit, why aren't they campaigning for a second referendum to seal the deal once and for all?

Personally I think a second referendum at this point would be pretty healthy. Single transferable vote, rank these in order: Remain in the EU, Join EFTA, Leave on WTO terms.

[DarkHorseWaits-NoMore]

The best decisive and least controversial outcome is to wait until the gov't fails to get any deal through parliment, leaving a simple binary question for a people's confirmation vote:

1. Leave with 'No Deal'.

2. Remain with a plan for real EU reform and schedule check point reviews for people's vote every 2-5 years.

 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2018 by DarkHorseWaits-NoMore
typo's

[rollover]

 

Quote

 

Emily Thornberry accuses BBC journalist of 'swallowing No10 propaganda'

Mr Marr was asking what Labour's stance will be when MPs are told to vote for or against Theresa May's Brexit plan in the House of Commons, probably in late November. Top Labour figures have indicated the party will vote against the plan.

Mr Marr asked Ms Thornberry: "To be crystal clear, if Theresa May brings back this kind of deal and MPs are told it’s this or the chaos of no deal, Labour MPs will still vote against her?" She replied: "That is a false choice. You’ve swallowed Number Ten propaganda on this."

Mr Marr protested: "That is what will be in front of MPs when this comes back. That’ll be the choice that they’re given. I’m not giving them the choice."

Mirror

 

Well done Emily for spotting the propaganda - black and white framing.

[dugsbody]

6 minutes ago, DarkHorseWaits-NoMore said:

2. Remain with a plan for real EU reform

I still don't understand what it is that people mean by EU "reform". What sort of thing specifically do all the members want to change?

[DarkHorseWaits-NoMore]

Reform of the democratic structures (or lack of) at the top. Manage reform to tackle the problems causing the general rise of nationalist populism across Europe, such as national identity, migration, austerity, wealth distribution and transparency etc. In some cases resolutions may only require engagement, debate and accurate information, unlike the often bias information the UK has relentlessly endured from it's so called main stream media outlets.

[Peter Hun]

15 hours ago, macca13 said:

Why? We can still buy wine from France but with added tariffs.. wine in Spain is 90 cents a bottle or 75p yet we don’t get it for that now within the EU? So this frictionless trade is ********.. 

youve been reading to much mark criminal Carney.. Of course the global banking terrorists don’t want Brexit, they want us bankrupt first so they can turn us into the next Greece.. 

Can of beer costs 2p to manufacture . Vodka 18p.

All plus packaging and UK tax.

[rollover]

Quote

The UK Brexit secretary is holding crunch talks with the EU’s chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, after making an unexpected dash to Brussels days ahead of a “moment of truth” leaders’ summit.

He will be in Brussels this afternoon to meet with Michel Barnier for a 4pm meeting, with the talks expected to last late into the night.

The bloc’s deputy chief negotiator, Sabine Weyand, had told EU ambassadors gathering in Luxembourg on Friday that talks were progressing well, and that results might be made public as early as Monday. One senior EU diplomat said: “The wedding knot is tied.”

May’s volatile domestic situation, however, remains the greatest risk to a deal. Guardian

Tories fractions infighting is the biggest problem and make the Brexit problem unsolvable.

[dugsbody]

34 minutes ago, DarkHorseWaits-NoMore said:

Reform of the democratic structures (or lack of) at the top. Manage reform to tackle the problems causing the general rise of nationalist populism across Europe, such as national identity, migration, austerity, wealth distribution and transparency etc. In some cases resolutions may only require engagement, debate and accurate information, unlike the often bias information the UK has relentlessly endured from it's so called main stream media outlets.

Thanks.

[Riedquat]

2 hours ago, DarkHorseWaits-NoMore said:

The best decisive and least controversial outcome is to wait until the gov't fails to get any deal through parliment, leaving a simple binary question for a people's confirmation vote:

1. Leave with 'No Deal'.

2. Remain with a plan for real EU reform and schedule check point reviews for people's vote every 2-5 years.

Sure, but that relies on the EU being able and willing to reform. That's not something we can control, and as I've said often enough if that was ever even half likely Remain would've won by a landslide.

[GrizzlyDave]

8 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

Had we been in the Euro, Blair, Brown, Mandelson et al would not have had the pump they used to inflate the house price bubble which was the cornerstone of their "Miracle Economy".

[GrizzlyDave]

3 hours ago, dugsbody said:

I still don't understand what it is that people mean by EU "reform". What sort of thing specifically do all the members want to change?

Well, for starters.

CAP

Seats per capita representation

election of Presidents and senior CS

banning founding 6 special meetings

ever closer union

FOM

tampon tax.