rollover Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Quote Theresa May under increased pressure to oppose Irish Brexit backstop Prime Minister Theresa May has come under further pressure to scrap the EU's Irish backstop proposal, as Boris Johnson slammed the plan as the "greatest national humiliation since Suez". City AM Boris is doing the same thing than before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 53 minutes ago, jonb2 said: Indeed. I spent most of the early 90s fighting repossession while I could have spent better time with my family. Barclays took me to court 4 times - each time I won fighting technicalities - their lawyers were so overworked by repossession work they never did their homework properly. Eventually sold when prices reached a point we could cover the debt situation. Living under the cosh of uncertain shelter with little kids in tow for years is why I am here. Gravy, Rock the Kasbah. Never happened. Bring it on, with the Unicorns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 (edited) 39 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: Well actually I said they owe us nothing and we owe them nothing. Which isn’t quite the same thing. Its precisely the same thing, and you're now just being a dick Edited October 13, 2018 by HairyOb1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 18 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said: Its precisely the same thing, and you're now just being a dick It’s not the same thing. Your statement has a mutuality of obligation ‘if’... x ‘then’... y Mine doesn’t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugsbody Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 58 minutes ago, rollover said: Boris is doing the same thing than before. I'm hoping that Theresa manages to bring a firm deal to parliament, who reject it, she resigns, Boris takes over and we finally get to see the emperor with no clothes on. The only way forward for this country is to make brexiters accountable and expose them for the frauds and liars they are. We can't do that while they can continue to snipe from the side without any repurcussions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 4 hours ago, jonb2 said: Indeed. I spent most of the early 90s fighting repossession while I could have spent better time with my family. Barclays took me to court 4 times - each time I won fighting technicalities - their lawyers were so overworked by repossession work they never did their homework properly. Eventually sold when prices reached a point we could cover the debt situation. Living under the cosh of uncertain shelter with little kids in tow for years is why I am here. For the first time I find myself genuinely sympathising with you, that must of been a tough time. Though I don't share your solutions on preventing a repeat, and I no longer blame the Tories as much as I once did. The are massive issues in the UK, and I don't think the present Tories or Corbyn are anywhere close to being the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 5 hours ago, dugsbody said: I'm hoping that Theresa manages to bring a firm deal to parliament, who reject it, she resigns, Boris takes over and we finally get to see the emperor with no clothes on. I think a more likely series of events is May brings deal to Parliament, Parliament rejects it, May calls general election. What happens after that is anybody's guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 12 minutes ago, Dorkins said: I think a more likely series of events is May brings deal to Parliament, Parliament rejects it, May calls general election. What happens after that is anybody's guess. I think, May Brexit deal will be accepted in Parliament. Labour rebels will make sure it will go through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said: It’s not the same thing. Your statement has a mutuality of obligation ‘if’... x ‘then’... y Mine doesn’t. That's just plain nonsense. Mine is clearly ridiculing anyone thinking anything is owed by anyone, the same as yours, you're just being a dick. Edited October 13, 2018 by HairyOb1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 (edited) 20 minutes ago, rollover said: I think, May Brexit deal will be accepted in Parliament. Labour rebels will make sure it will go through. You can count the pro-Brexit Labour MPs on one hand, and even they would probably prefer to see May fall than vote for a hard-ish Brexit. There are far more Tory MPs who might vote against a deal that takes the UK out of the single market, plus the DUP have explicitly said they will vote against any deal which puts any border in the Irish Sea. The parliamentary arithmetic is against May. The opposition parties will all vote against her, the DUP will vote against her unless she miraculously comes up with a deal which puts no border in the Irish Sea, and hardcore remainer Tory MPs might vote against her if she tries to take the UK out of the single market. Edited October 13, 2018 by Dorkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Quote Jacob Rees-Mogg joined Nigel Farage at a Leave Means Leave rally in Torquay He said 'the future of our country is at stake, the future of our party is at stake', and added: 'We are so nearly there, we must make sure that Chequers is binned, that this idea of a customs union, the sheer lunacy of paying £3.5 billion a year to subsidise the European Union for all eternity is binned. 'We are close, we are almost there, we just need to be steady for a few more weeks and if we do that the prize is there to be grasped.' Daily Mail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 32 minutes ago, Dorkins said: You can count the pro-Brexit Labour MPs on one hand, and even they would probably prefer to see May fall than vote for a hard-ish Brexit. There are far more Tory MPs who might vote against a deal that takes the UK out of the single market, plus the DUP have explicitly said they will vote against any deal which puts any border in the Irish Sea. The parliamentary arithmetic is against May. The opposition parties will all vote against her, the DUP will vote against her unless she miraculously comes up with a deal which puts no border in the Irish Sea, and hardcore remainer Tory MPs might vote against her if she tries to take the UK out of the single market. Scenarios Canada +++ : DUP stop supporting CS Deal, 12 Rebels vote against. May loses. BRINO: 30-80 Cons vote against, all Labout, Libdems and SNPs. May loses. Hard Brexit: ALL Labour, LD and SNP plus 12 Con rebels. Tight, but I think May loses. In short, I can't see May coming out of this well at all. She'll still try and maintain face, but in 2 scenarios, it's effectively a VONC. Election within months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Kind of cool, emotionally warming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dorkins said: I think a more likely series of events is May brings deal to Parliament, Parliament rejects it, May calls general election. What happens after that is anybody's guess. If that happens the Cons are stuck with May leading another election campaign. A pretty scary prospect for them which my help her get the deal through no matter how dodgy it is. Edited October 13, 2018 by Confusion of VIs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 18 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said: Scenarios Canada +++ : DUP stop supporting CS Deal, 12 Rebels vote against. May loses. BRINO: 30-80 Cons vote against, all Labout, Libdems and SNPs. May loses. Hard Brexit: ALL Labour, LD and SNP plus 12 Con rebels. Tight, but I think May loses. In short, I can't see May coming out of this well at all. She'll still try and maintain face, but in 2 scenarios, it's effectively a VONC. Election within months. I think, Labour rebels may help the BRINO go through, and not let go Tories off the hook. It would be a double whammy, government will fall with possible early elections and Conservative party will split up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Quote BREXIT DEAL 'DONE' Brexit deal ‘set to be finalised TOMORROW before being presented to British government next week’ Last night the memo, circulating among EU ambassadors, sparked fury from Brexiteers. It boasts: “Deal made, nothing made public (in theory).” It says the plan will be rubber-stamped by the Government tomorrow before being announced amid fanfares in Brussels. And a leaked memo reveals senior European negotiators want to agree terms today — before the Cabinet has seen them. BRITAIN has stitched up a secret Brexit deal with EU chiefs, it has been reported. The Sun Interesting, they can't afford not to make Brexit deal in current hot air situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, rollover said: Interesting, they can't afford not to make Brexit deal in current hot air situation. "Pile of vomit" should be an interesting week ahead IF the report is accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 1 hour ago, rollover said: I think, Labour rebels may help the BRINO go through, and not let go Tories off the hook. It would be a double whammy, government will fall with possible early elections and Conservative party will split up. I can't see there being enough Labour rebels to thwart the ERG, which claims to have 40-80 members support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 1 hour ago, rollover said: I think, Labour rebels may help the BRINO go through Seriously, which Labour rebels are these that will vote with May to take the UK out of the single market? Not the Labour right like Umunna, Kinnock, Kendall etc - they are ardent pro-Europeans. Labour Leave MPs are mostly hard left trade unionist types who don't trust the neoliberal EU project - keeping a Conservative government in power is not exactly why they went into politics. Labour can offer the DUP what it wants in the form of a Norway Brexit for the whole UK. Out of the CU, in the SM, no border in the Irish Sea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 2 hours ago, HairyOb1 said: BRINO: 30-80 Cons vote against, all Labout, Libdems and SNPs. May loses. 1 hour ago, rollover said: I think, Labour rebels may help the BRINO go through, and not let go Tories off the hook. What is BRINO? Is it different from Norway (in SM, out of CU)? It's hard enough to make sense of this thread, at least define your terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/theresa-could-clinch-brexit-deal-13413325 Quote Theresa May could clinch Brexit deal by Wednesday — and it may mean 3 more years in the EU EXCLUSIVE: The Prime Minister is on the verge of getting a deal ahead of a crucial vote by MPs but Brexiteers may not be happy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 15 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/theresa-could-clinch-brexit-deal-13413325 What's the logic behind three years. If it is to negotiate a comprehensive trade deal these take berween 5-10 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 8 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/theresa-could-clinch-brexit-deal-13413325 Lol, so (if true) this big Brexit deal is for the UK to stay in the EU (minus representation) until December 2021 while the negotiations continue? It's like a student spending a whole day of revision redrawing their revision timetable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: What's the logic behind three years. If it is to negotiate a comprehensive trade deal these take berween 5-10 years It's 3 years for now because Team May thinks Tory MPs will stomach that. In early 2020 the then leader of the Tory party (assuming they are still in power) can extend it again. Looks like Brexit could last well into the 2020s. We should have a party when this thread hits 5k pages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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