Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[GrizzlyDave]

7 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said:

Where does he build his hoovers?

Remember this bad boy from the 1970’s in ‘Henry’ red...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabham_BT46

[pig]

21 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

I don't think the Germans are unbeatable but they will set a very high bar for anyone trying to take them on. Absolutely, or they just write some funky cheat software to make their dirty cars get over the bar. If anyone can do it my money would be on it being either Tesla or the Chinese (I read somewhere that they see electrification as their chance to break into the world car market).

Dyson's £2.5bn wouldn't go very far trying to compete with the Germans/Tesla, unless just perhaps he is the front for the Chinese manufacturers .   

 I'm sure you aren't being too serious, but its too close to some of the rows I've had in the flesh where you start seeing daft nationalist poison seeping into the psyche... 

E.g. where you get somebody from the anglo-american sphere accusing the Germans of being guilty of Capitalism !

[HairyOb1]

Just now, GrizzlyDave said:

Remember this bad boy from the 1970’s in ‘Henry’ red...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabham_BT46

Banned before it raced!

He'll build his cars like his other products, in Asia.  He's a grade 1 shite; all mouth about the UK, then creates jobs elsewhere as it's cheaper.

[pig]

9 minutes ago, EmmaRoid said:

How I don't miss the lunatics.

Interesting. Was thinking last night how the debate (from both sides) has got better.

[GrizzlyDave]

1 minute ago, pig said:

 I'm sure you aren't being too serious, but its too close to some of the rows I've had in the flesh where you start seeing daft nationalist poison seeping into the psyche... 

E.g. where you get somebody from the anglo-american sphere accusing the Germans of being guilty of Capitalism !

You mean like Obama suddenly using the old name ‘British Petroleum’ after deepwater horizon.

I love German cars, they are excellent; but let’s not get all gushy about how they are the BoB and will beat the rest without losing perspective on their recent ethical and fraudulent undertakings.

[Option5]

2 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said:

Banned before it raced!

He'll build his cars like his other products, in Asia.  He's a grade 1 shite; all mouth about the UK, then creates jobs elsewhere as it's cheaper.

The BT46B fan car raced once in the Swedish GP, it won, then got banned.

[GrizzlyDave]

3 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said:

Banned before it raced!

He'll build his cars like his other products, in Asia.  He's a grade 1 shite; all mouth about the UK, then creates jobs elsewhere as it's cheaper.

Plenty of companies do this...

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

17 minutes ago, pig said:

Interesting. Was thinking last night how the debate (from both sides) has got better.

Jesus Christ, it must have been really bad then.

[jonb2]

26 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said:

Banned before it raced!

He'll build his cars like his other products, in Asia.  He's a grade 1 shite; all mouth about the UK, then creates jobs elsewhere as it's cheaper.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/jul/10/whos-who-britain-legal-offshore-tax-avoidance-james-dyson

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/823054/Common-Agricultural-Policy-CAP-EU-subsidy-Rich-List-farmers

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by jonb2

[pig]

7 minutes ago, EmmaRoid said:

Jesus Christ, it must have been really bad then.

Wait why am I laughing

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

I don't think the Germans are unbeatable but they will set a very high bar for anyone trying to take them on. If anyone can do it my money would be on it being either Tesla or the Chinese (I read somewhere that they see electrification as their chance to break into the world car market).

Dyson's £2.5bn wouldn't go very far trying to compete with the Germans/Tesla, unless just perhaps he is the front for the Chinese manufacturers .   

£2.5bn on it's own, perhaps not - guess he'd need to float or partnership to bring in enough cash. Unless he's going to build an offroad evolution of the Sinclair C5 to navigate the wastelands of post Brexit UK 

If the software is so important, I wouldn't like to go up against Google/Waymo - although Tesla does have a lot of Autopilot experience. But that's going even more OT. 

[GrizzlyDave]

13 minutes ago, highYield said:

£2.5bn on it's own, perhaps not - guess he'd need to float or partnership to bring in enough cash. Unless he's going to build an offroad evolution of the Sinclair C5 to navigate the wastelands of post Brexit UK 

If the software is so important, I wouldn't like to go up against Google/Waymo - although Tesla does have a lot of Autopilot experience. But that's going even more OT. 

Cars are last millennium. This is the future in electric vehicles. BIND

http://uk.businessinsider.com/dubai-flying-taxi-drone-volocopter-test-pilot-unmanned-2017-9

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by GrizzlyDave

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Cars are last millennium. This is the future in electric vehicles. BIND

http://uk.businessinsider.com/dubai-flying-taxi-drone-volocopter-test-pilot-unmanned-2017-9

Plunging from the sky when the batteries run out, or landing every 10 miles to recharge? They'd have to rename 'range anxiety' to 'range abject terror' 

A hydrogen powered one would be cool. They could call it a helicopter

[GrizzlyDave]

8 minutes ago, highYield said:

Plunging from the sky when the batteries run out, or landing every 10 miles to recharge? They'd have to rename 'range anxiety' to 'range abject terror'  details - look beyond this!

A hydrogen Hindenberg powered one would be cool. They could call it a helicopter  And stinky

 

[Sheeple Splinter]

6 hours ago, jonb2 said:

SS - good points. I agree with all of them.

There are many on here that need a hate figure. This is arch manipulation and a well known technique - "don't look here, look over there". Goebbels style.

Those that hate the EU, I mean really hate it have an attitude of "destroy it, then we'll all be OK and the UK will be full of loveliness". It's irrational as they should be looking at Westminster for most of their immediate ills.

There is nothing to be gained from destroying the EU - only dangerous instability. War might even come at some point as Europe has a deep and dreadful history of this. Wars are strange as nobody can firmly determine the fickleness that starts them.

I have always admitted the EU has massive problems. Junker, and certain others are bad news IMHO. There are other forces I believe will keep them in check

But overall the original reason for its being is laudable. I will find it a cruel irony for us after Brexit if it moves away from Junkers vision and more towards what it should be - a group that cooperates on projects and trade. What people don't realise about it is that one of its aims is to create a strong and stable (sorry!) block - hence trying to pull other countries up. This is much needed as the world gets darker. We are in an age when greed is at its pinnacle because it can be enacted globally, and I fear this will be far more destructive than border disputes.

The UK on its own will get poorer, much poorer - not just in monetary terms either.

 

Indeed, there is nothing to be gained by destroying the EU and the Lancaster House speech emphasised the achievements and potential of the EU & UK:

Quote

...

Because our continent’s great strength has always been its diversity. And there are 2 ways of dealing with different interests. You can respond by trying to hold things together by force, tightening a vice-like grip that ends up crushing into tiny pieces the very things you want to protect. Or you can respect difference, cherish it even, and reform the EU so that it deals better with the wonderful diversity of its member states.

So to our friends across Europe, let me say this.

Our vote to leave the European Union was no rejection of the values we share. The decision to leave the EU represents no desire to become more distant to you, our friends and neighbours. It was no attempt to do harm to the EU itself or to any of its remaining member states. We do not want to turn the clock back to the days when Europe was less peaceful, less secure and less able to trade freely. It was a vote to restore, as we see it, our parliamentary democracy, national self-determination, and to become even more global and internationalist in action and in spirit.

 https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-governments-negotiating-objectives-for-exiting-the-eu-pm-speech

May's proposition for the EU to reform may have led to Juncker producing his white paper on EU reforms a couple of months later. As you probably know, Scenario 2 is based on the SM:

Quote

THE EUROPEAN UNION IS GRADUALLY RE-CENTRED ON THE SINGLE MARKET.

Why and how?

In a scenario where the EU27 cannot agree to do more in many policy areas, it increasingly focuses on deepening certain key aspects of the single market. There is no shared resolve to work more together in areas such as migration, security or defence.

 Unfortunately, and this occurs several times, the scenario is neutered in the summary!

Quote

...Pros and cons: The EU’s re-centred priorities mean that differences of views between Member States on new emerging issues often need to be solved bilaterally, on a caseby-case basis. Citizens’ rights derived from EU law may become restricted over time. Decision-making may be simpler to understand but the capacity to act collectively is limited. This may widen the gap between expectations and delivery at all levels.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/white_paper_on_the_future_of_europe_en.pdf

Hopefully, as the pressure for the EU to reform builds, EU citizens might get a chance of reshaping the future; if the EU moves quickly, then UK citizens might want to be part of the EU's future...

[rollover]

Quote

Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson today risked stoking tensions with the Prime Minister by launching a new Right-wing think tank pushing for a hard Brexit. Mr Johnson called for the UK to create independent trading arrangements with growing economies around the world and ditch European product standards. ES

 

[jonb2]

1 hour ago, Sheeple Splinter said:

Indeed, there is nothing to be gained by destroying the EU and the Lancaster House speech emphasised the achievements and potential of the EU & UK:

 https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-governments-negotiating-objectives-for-exiting-the-eu-pm-speech

May's proposition for the EU to reform may have led to Juncker producing his white paper on EU reforms a couple of months later. As you probably know, Scenario 2 is based on the SM:

 Unfortunately, and this occurs several times, the scenario is neutered in the summary!

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/white_paper_on_the_future_of_europe_en.pdf

Hopefully, as the pressure for the EU to reform builds, EU citizens might get a chance of reshaping the future; if the EU moves quickly, then UK citizens might want to be part of the EU's future...

Great answer with illuminating facts - thank you.

I admit there seems a real conflict of vision in the EU, let's hope the federalists come to their senses and compromise. Juncker needs to go as he seems obstructive.

The question remains though - how many Brexiteers/leavers would change their tune if these reforms were made?

Not many I think.

[rollover]

1 hour ago, jonb2 said:

Great answer with illuminating facts - thank you.

I admit there seems a real conflict of vision in the EU, let's hope the federalists come to their senses and compromise. Juncker needs to go as he seems obstructive.

The question remains though - how many Brexiteers/leavers would change their tune if these reforms were made?

Not many I think.

You should focus on real conflict of vision in the UK. Did you watch Jeremy Corbyn's speech today? Before long, the hard Brexit illusion will be history.

 Brexit for the many, not just the few! 

Edited September 27, 2017 by rollover

[Confusion of VIs]

 

FT Article : Google "Brexit transition turns into ‘big call’ for EU27"

https://www.ft.com/content/64d1d1a4-a2b3-11e7-9e4f-7f5e6a7c98a2

Gives an idea as to some of the factors that will be driving any agreement over the transition. 

 

 

[ExiledMatty]

19 hours ago, Futuroid said:

Don't worry, I'm sure Trump will give us a "sweet deal*", special relationship and all that.

(* = Sweet for him)

Why would you expect any different? Almost everything in politics is laced with self-interest.

Same as the champagne socialists with their BTL empires wanting a constant stream of immigrants to exploit.

[ExiledMatty]

14 hours ago, HairyOb1 said:

He'll build his cars like his other products, in Asia.  He's a grade 1 shite; all mouth about the UK, then creates jobs elsewhere as it's cheaper.

This is one thing I hate about the UK. Tall poppy syndrome. We never celebrate entreprenuership, and this is partly why we will always lag behind the likes of the USA, Germany etc in terms of business and innovation.

I know people that work for Dyson in the West of England. He has created wealth, tax money and jobs. If they didn't manufacture overseas then Dyson would go bust. Do you really need this simple economics spelt out?

He'll have contributed way more to our society than a million public sector workers pushing around pointless emails all day.

[GrizzlyDave]

1 hour ago, ExiledMatty said:

This is one thing I hate about the UK. Tall poppy syndrome. We never celebrate entreprenuership, and this is partly why we will always lag behind the likes of the USA, Germany etc in terms of business and innovation.

I know people that work for Dyson in the West of England. He has created wealth, tax money and jobs. If they didn't manufacture overseas then Dyson would go bust. Do you really need this simple economics spelt out?

He'll have contributed way more to our society than a million public sector workers pushing around pointless emails all day.

Lol, so true. He can be a bit of a tit, but credit where credit is due. We could do with many more of him in this country.

[Futuroid]

3 hours ago, ExiledMatty said:

This is one thing I hate about the UK. Tall poppy syndrome. We never celebrate entreprenuership, and this is partly why we will always lag behind the likes of the USA, Germany etc in terms of business and innovation.

I know people that work for Dyson in the West of England. He has created wealth, tax money and jobs. If they didn't manufacture overseas then Dyson would go bust. Do you really need this simple economics spelt out?

He'll have contributed way more to our society than a million public sector workers pushing around pointless emails all day.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/eu-farming-subsidies-billionaires-high-uk-rich-list-recipients-brexit-james-dyson-earl-rosebery-cap-a7815871.html

"Sir James Dyson's farming business was the biggest private recipient of EU basic payments in the UK in 2016, receiving £1.6 million,"

What a guy <swoon>.

[HairyOb1]

3 hours ago, ExiledMatty said:

1. This is one thing I hate about the UK. Tall poppy syndrome. We never celebrate entreprenuership, and this is partly why we will always lag behind the likes of the USA, Germany etc in terms of business and innovation.

2.  I know people that work for Dyson in the West of England. He has created wealth, tax money and jobs. If they didn't manufacture overseas then Dyson would go bust. Do you really need this simple economics spelt out?

3.  He'll have contributed way more to our society than a million public sector workers pushing around pointless emails all day.

1.  This isn't tall poppy syndrome.  He has outsourced his manufacturing to save himself money and give taxes to other countries.  He preaches not what he sows.

2.  His HQ is in Wiltshire, now his Tech division too, but his manufacturing is in Asia.  You get this don't you?  He is promoting leaving the EU, yet doesn't manufacture here, so it will cost him nothing more WTSHTF.  He is utterly nothing to be proud of, on the contrary.  I hope this venture into autonomous electric vehicle bankrupts him.

3.  A simple straw man again, has no place here, reason or link.  That really is desperate.

1 hour ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Lol, so true. He can be a bit of a tit, but credit where credit is due. We could do with many more of him in this country.

Yes, manufacturing in this country.  I agree.  But he's not, he's profiting from cheaper labour elsewhere, then sailing companies up the river here.  He's a grade A hypercritical shite.

[HairyOb1]

17 hours ago, Option5 said:

The BT46B fan car raced once in the Swedish GP, it won, then got banned.

It did, and it wasn't banned by the FIA apparently.  Brabham just didn't race it anymore (maybe moolah traded hands?).

17 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Plenty of companies do this...

Lots of people go around shooting people, this doesn't make the practice right.  My point is, he's all in with Brexit, but it will affect him not one jot.  It's like me owning a manufacturing process in India, then stating we should put tariffs on everything out of the EU as it wouldn't affect me.  He actually stands to benefit from it.

I'd bet all the money I have, that when, or if, he comes to produce his car, it will not be made in the UK (unless he gets massive help from the government), it will be made elsewhere.