Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[OnionTerror]

15 minutes ago, pig said:

FGS you've degenerated into fairy story 'the will of the people' now lol ?

This is all shamefully tendentious spin anyway. The reality is that they voted with their conscience rather than calculating as a politician should (and as people normally hate) . They tried for an informed referendum and got an even worse Brexit - the Brexit that allegedly Brexiters wanted. 

The options were:

1. The Brexit that allegedly Leavers wanted

2. An informed referendum on the actual choices

3. A Brexit that nobody wanted

Now try giving each of those options a rating in terms of democratic integrity.

The worst you can say is that they should have listened to Kenneth Clarke who saw this coming a mile off.

Pig, please don't patronise me...I thought better than that of you.. Looking at it all through remainers lenses, like most on here.   Brexit is ALL bad.  Absolutely none of it is good.  Its going to stay bad forever.  A constant level of 100% bad.   

I'm glad I stood away from this part of the forum for months.....I may go again...see yourselves pointlessly fighting each other for time immemorial.

Edited August 30, 2021 by Dave Beans

[yelims]

 

[pig]

15 minutes ago, Dave Beans said:

Pig, please don't patronise me...I thought better than that of you.. Looking at it all through remainers lenses, like most on here.   Brexit is ALL bad.  Absolutely none of it is good.  Its going to stay bad forever.  A constant level of 100% bad.   

I'm glad I stood away from this part of the forum for months.....I may go again...see yourselves pointlessly fighting each other for time immemorial.

Actually I agree with the sentiment at least - too much of the endlessly slating Blair post Iraq rather than trying to figure out what next. There will be no grand prizes for Remainers being right about whatever. We (all) know its going wrong atm and there will be more and possibly worse to come.  But what can we salvage and how ?

 

[miguel]

Workers rights. You know all those workers pay and conditions that Tories opposed for donkeys years and yes that included the minimum wage. It's complete and utter bs that Tory brexshters have suddenly decided that workers rights are a priority. 

Britannia unchained my Brexsht friends. 

[Cocha]

15 minutes ago, pig said:

Actually I agree with the sentiment at least - too much of the endlessly slating Blair post Iraq rather than trying to figure out what next. There will be no grand prizes for Remainers being right about whatever. We (all) know its going wrong atm and there will be more and possibly worse to come.  But what can we salvage and how ?

 

It isn't going wrong for me, so I'm not part of your (all).

[70PC]

Who actually runs the EU? It doesn't seem to be France despite their undoubted influence. The Brussels bureaucrats assure us that they just follow orders. The European MP's don't seem to do much beyond getting indignant in debates. Greece certainly doesn't run the EU. So who does the EU belong to and who pulls the strings?  

[yelims]

26 minutes ago, 70PC said:

Who actually runs the EU? It doesn't seem to be France despite their undoubted influence. The Brussels bureaucrats assure us that they just follow orders. The European MP's don't seem to do much beyond getting indignant in debates. Greece certainly doesn't run the EU. So who does the EU belong to and who pulls the strings?  

The people, it’s a democracy which might be a foreign concept for a subject of the crown in a country without a constitution 

 

[Huggy]

1 hour ago, Dave Beans said:

Pig, please don't patronise me...I thought better than that of you.. Looking at it all through remainers lenses, like most on here.   Brexit is ALL bad.  Absolutely none of it is good.  Its going to stay bad forever.  A constant level of 100% bad.   

I'm glad I stood away from this part of the forum for months.....I may go again...see yourselves pointlessly fighting each other for time immemorial.

I try and avoid it myself but something keeps drawing me back occasionally. It's like a box of starving rats that you can shake once in a while just to see what happens.

Interestingly, one could have watched this video exactly 4,600 times since 24 June 16 and it would still have more variety than this thread 🐑

 

[70PC]

1 hour ago, yelims said:

The people, it’s a democracy which might be a foreign concept for a subject of the crown in a country without a constitution 

 

Which people? That is my question.

[yelims]

2 hours ago, 70PC said:

Which people? That is my question.

The people of 27 Eu states 

I recommend you check Wikipedia maybe, there was an uptick of “what is Eu” searches after Eu referendum, you seem about 5 years to late 

[coypondboy]

The Taliban will accept muslim refugees from europe, wow Home Secretary Patel lets open up a processing camp in Pakistan on the border with Afganistan should be easy as 20 flights a week to Islamabad from Manchester and London.

BBC reports Austrian's already looking at this.

Taliban willing to accept asylum seekers rejected from Europe

The Taliban has said that it would accept any Afghan migrants rejected for asylum in Europe, and would try them in court on their return.

In an interview with Austrian newspaper Kronen Zeitung, a Taliban spokesperson did not elaborate on why the refugees would be taken to court, or what judgement they might face.

He also repeated the group's pledge to respect the rights of women within the framework of Sharia law.

"We will grant women Islamic rights, enable education and create conditions for work. We are in the process of putting that in place," they added.

Austria's government has taken a tougher stance than many other European countries on Afghan asylum seekers.

Interior Minister Karl Nehammer had initially said Austria should deport rejected asylum seekers for as long as possible. He has since conceded that this isn't possible, but said that neighbouring countries should set up "deportation centres" to take them in.

[Huggy]

10 minutes ago, coypondboy said:

Taliban willing to accept asylum seekers rejected from Europe

 

Does that include Remainers too? Apparently Brexit-Britain is such a horrible place to live, maybe somewhere else with more anti-UK feelings might be more appropriate 😉

I jest of course, Brexit-Britain is doing fine so no they wouldn't even want to think about leaving, even if they were living here 😉 

[dugsbody]

6 hours ago, Dave Beans said:

It didn't have to be this way.  They voted against the solution(s) that would have prevented the situation we are now in, and they are they are now complaining about the situation we are now in.

I've been staying away from this thread a bit, since I'm on a nice period of gardening leave and wanted to fully relax.

But I do pop in now and then and post to point out bits of dishonesty. I am not sure you even see my posts any more, I think you blocked me, because the last time you said something like this I also pointed it out, with no resolution.

There was no workable alternative to where we are now. We were never going to accept freedom of movement, the customs union was a non starter, Theresa May's full UK backstop was a non-starter that no-one liked.

Given the above, you are either intentionally trying to pass the blame on from the people who caused brexit, which is dishonest, or giving you the benefit of the doubt and are really confused.

I'm not trying to patronise you, you may take it that way. Genuinely, if you think I am wrong, then the way to put me in my place is to draw out (in more than just a brexiters hand waving manner) what this alternative brexit looked like and explain why brexiters would have supported it and how it could have stood that onslaught, or more importantly, how it would have been good for our country.

[OnionTerror]

9 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

I've been staying away from this thread a bit, since I'm on a nice period of gardening leave and wanted to fully relax.

But I do pop in now and then and post to point out bits of dishonesty. I am not sure you even see my posts any more, I think you blocked me, because the last time you said something like this I also pointed it out, with no resolution.

There was no workable alternative to where we are now. We were never going to accept freedom of movement, the customs union was a non starter, Theresa May's full UK backstop was a non-starter that no-one liked.

Given the above, you are either intentionally trying to pass the blame on from the people who caused brexit, which is dishonest, or giving you the benefit of the doubt and are really confused.

I'm not trying to patronise you, you may take it that way. Genuinely, if you think I am wrong, then the way to put me in my place is to draw out (in more than just a brexiters hand waving manner) what this alternative brexit looked like and explain why brexiters would have supported it and how it could have stood that onslaught, or more importantly, how it would have been good for our country.

Hi Dugs..

I haven't blocked you, but I did think about attempting to answer your question, but then I have written adnauseam about this over the last five years, and to be honest, and you might claim that it is cop out, but I can no longer be bothered to rake over old ground again and again and again.  It will serve no purpose as by the end of it, and whatever I say, you will not change your mind.

We have now Brexited, and we will need to meet the challenges in the years ahead.

[coypondboy]

Its starting to get complicated think the home office might need to set up a base in belfast as many will try to get in from ROI.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/aug/30/couple-divided-by-irish-border-because-of-post-brexit-rules

Edited August 30, 2021 by coypondboy

[IMHAL]

1 hour ago, Dave Beans said:

Hi Dugs..

I haven't blocked you, but I did think about attempting to answer your question, but then I have written adnauseam about this over the last five years, and to be honest, and you might claim that it is cop out, but I can no longer be bothered to rake over old ground again and again and again.  It will serve no purpose as by the end of it, and whatever I say, you will not change your mind.

We have now Brexited, and we will need to meet the challenges in the years ahead.

Did the average Brexiteers in your view also scupper your vesion of the perfect Brexit?

Really DB, the truth is that there was no majority for a perfect or best Brexit. The current Brexit was pushed through as the doors to the less popular options (but not mojority options) where sucessively closed. I include remain as one of those options. 

The whole debacle looked like this. 48% want to eat at home 52% want to eat out. When asked where we want to eat out, the vote was split. 25% wanted to eat in a home style resaurant, the rest didn't. People got fed up and hungry to boot, at the end someone said 'lets eat' I know a restaurant, let's go'. People said I'm sick and tired of the bickering, so yes, let's do it.

That is where we are.

[OnionTerror]

11 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

Did the average Brexiteers in your view also scupper your vesion of the perfect Brexit?

Really DB, the truth is that there was no majority for a perfect or best Brexit. The current Brexit was pushed through as the doors to the less popular options (but not mojority options) where sucessively closed. I include remain as one of those options. 

The whole debacle looked like this. 48% want to eat at home 52% want to eat out. When asked where we want to eat out, the vote was split. 25% wanted to eat in a home style resaurant, the rest didn't. People got fed up and hungry to boot, at the end someone said 'lets eat' I know a restaurant, let's go'. People said I'm sick and tired of the bickering, so yes, let's do it.

That is where we are.

It no longer matters any more.  We need to work with what we've got.  

[IMHAL]

2 minutes ago, Dave Beans said:

It no longer matters any more.  We need to work with what we've got.  

I don't disagree that that is the situation. What I disagree with is that you seem to be blaming predomintly remainers for us being in this situation when the root is that we have been placed, intentionally or unintentionally, in a disgruntled spiral of eradicating all the most popular real options (and I include remain in that).

If you are serious about 'working with what we have' and you want remainers to stop pushing back against your position, then you also need to move on fro, 'it's the remainers fault'.  

[OnionTerror]

2 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

I don't disagree that that is the situation. What I disagree with is that you seem to be blaming predomintly remainers for us being in this situation when the root is that we have been placed, intentionally or unintentionally, in a disgruntled spiral of eradicating all the most popular real options (and I include remain in that).

If you are serious about 'working with what we have' and you want remainers to stop pushing back against your position, then you also need to move on fro, 'it's the remainers fault'.  

It no longer matters.  Whatever I say, you will disagree with, so let's just leave it at that...

[IMHAL]

22 minutes ago, Dave Beans said:

It no longer matters.  Whatever I say, you will disagree with, so let's just leave it at that...

But it does matter DB. It matters a lot because we are not at the end of this spiral of 'the least popular option' yet. We are still sliding down and I dont know where it will end. It's also not helpful to blame remainers for 'being in this situation'...because the fact is that remain is still the most popular end state option compared to any other option. You might as well blame your prefered option ofor opposing TM's option as remain...that is just as valid an observation. If you are going to blame anything, then it is the flawed process.

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by IMHAL

[OnionTerror]

7 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

But it does matter DB. It matters a lot because we are not at the end of this spiral of 'the least popular option' yet. We are still sliding down and I dont know where it will end. It's also not helpful to blame remainers for 'being in this situation'...because the fact is that remain is still the most popular end state option compared to any other option. You might as well blame your prefered option ofor opposing TM's option as remain...that is just as valid an observation. If you are going to blame anything, then it is the flawed process.

 

Remain has gone and is now irrelevant.  The TCA is the new relationship.  We will now have to see what happens with it, with the next govt.

[IMHAL]

Just now, Dave Beans said:

Remain has gone and is now irrelevant.  The TCA is the new relationship.  We will now have to see what happens with it, with the next govt.

As I said, I don't disagree with that. Yet still I think you have not acknowledged the other point I made. I will set that aside.... for now.

[OnionTerror]

4 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

As I said, I don't disagree with that. Yet still I think you have not acknowledged the other point I made. I will set that aside.... for now.

It is what it is.  If you want to setup a rejoin movement, then please be my guest.

[coypondboy]

2 hours ago, Huggy said:

Does that include Remainers too? Apparently Brexit-Britain is such a horrible place to live, maybe somewhere else with more anti-UK feelings might be more appropriate 😉

I jest of course, Brexit-Britain is doing fine so no they wouldn't even want to think about leaving, even if they were living here 😉 

Would have to convert to islam and the mrs might not be too happy having to wear a full burka, having witnessed a few of these in bournemouth at the weekend with lots of kids in toe behind 2 girls covered in tatoos on every part of their boday wearing a thong bikini not sure if they would be shot of stoned if this was in afganistan but bearing in mind it is nearly 50 degrees in Kabul you think the taliban would allow this on account of the heat.

[IMHAL]

9 minutes ago, Dave Beans said:

It is what it is.  If you want to setup a rejoin movement, then please be my guest.

DB. With all due respect, you are going off at a tangent.

I respected your opnion on the 'best Brexit option' which I agreed with to an extent, but I am not enamoured about your response to 'why we are where we are'.... this is were you have been quite vocal of late.

It's pretty obvious that you hold some (not so valid points in my opinion) on that, which for whatever reason you are wedded to.... and unwilling to debate. I didn't think that was in your character. Never mind, but noted none the less.

Edited August 30, 2021 by IMHAL