Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[GrizzlyDave]

34 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

Of course, silly me, I forgot, new evidence can only be considered after the condemned man has been hanged .

Again your lame analogy.

The rules of the contest were agreed in advance.

You don’t get to have another contest if you don’t like the result.

You have to suck it up. Humility in defeat. It’s democracy.

[jonb2]

20 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

That's been answered countless times before. The answers are usually just rejected by Remainers because they either take an ultramaterialistic view of the world or fail to understand what they want and like could possibly be different from what other people want and like (or both).

The important thing is to know what you mean by "improve an individual's life," and not just narrow that to insisting it has to only be what you think will improve your life. So simply not liking the sort of organisation that the EU is (the large scale, where authority lies etc.) and having that changed is a big improvement to some even if it's meaningless to others.

You can no more reject what someone claims is an improvement to them no matter how meaningless it is to you than you can their taste of music. You can roll your eyes at it, form a very low opinion of them for it, but you can't say they're objectively wrong (actually you can because it's valid to question whether someone really does know what they want but that applies equally on all sides). Not appreciating that is a mistake Remainers make time and time again. So do most people to be honest, but it's the Remainers doing it that's relevant here.

I don't think having a reliable healthcare system accessible by everyone, a working police force, social care, affordable housing, good jobs and education that works is ultra-materialistic?

Do you?

[Bruce Banner]

1 minute ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Again your lame analogy.

The rules of the contest were agreed in advance.

You don’t get to have another contest if you don’t like the result.

You have to suck it up. Humility in defeat. It’s democracy.

 

[jonb2]

9 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Thanks.

Yes as a stupid uneducated leaver the context of my words didn’t really cross my mind when I wrote it...

Well you'll need to know your place after Brexit so it's good practice. you don't need an education when you're working to make JRM richer. All you need is expert forelock tugging and perfect cap doffing.

[dances with sheeple]

The media narrative moving noticeably to No Deal being the likely outcome now, IDS just bulldozed AB on Sky with a powerful reminder of what democracy actually is. If you believe in democracy folks get out and vote for the Brexit party tomorrow! IDS conceded that many conservatives will be doing this, not him though.

[pig]

30 minutes ago, winkie said:

Question?.......how will leaving the EU improve an individual's life make it  better?.......nobody has answered that question.

......being a member has many advantages, take them away the average person will feel the consequences of it...... perhaps they will just bite their lip and say for the good of the country......what is that good??

I think for many Leavers it boils down to ‘identity politics’ hence both the waffle and confusion over the answer to your specific question.

E.g. yes we might be fecked but they might feel better about their self-induced existential crisis. 

[Riedquat]

4 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

I don't think having a reliable healthcare system accessible by everyone, a working police force, social care, affordable housing, good jobs and education that works is ultra-materialistic?

Do you?

I'll get back to you once I figure out just how that's not supposed to be a non-sequitor.

[Peter Hun]

40 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Sweeping generalisation after sweeping generalisation.

Thankfully there are others who do not share your bigotry.

Every one of those sites is based in India. Those are the opinions of Indians themselves. So in your opinion Indians are bigots for not agreeing with you on the exploitation of India by the British?

[dances with sheeple]

22 hours ago, thecrashingisles said:

In what way is that relevant?  Most non-British people in the UK did not come from the EU.

Do you think that trying to overturn a democratic vote is playing games with peoples lives (and votes, that people died on the beaches for remember)? TM has played her remainer cards well, even managing to slip in a second referendum just as she is about to be dragged away from her post screaming "Long Live the EU!" Nice try but not enough I`m afraid, there is a real and building anger at this assault on democracy by political "elites" and that anger is about to be expressed at the ballot box this week.

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

Have we heard anything from Farage about British Steel, for instance? Massive Leave voting constituency, left behind economically; strategic industry, national champions etc.

Perfect case for the Brexit Party to expand on. So where's the support?

BS has been bankrupted by Private Equity & EU taxes (but probably would have gone bust anyway). It should be nationalised, linked through the nearby Grimsby centre for offshore wind to the arrays with big fat cables - then become the first green steel production facility in Europe - like Iceland does with aluminium/geothermal. Combined with a new battery/energy storage/hydrogen research facility for heavy industrial power/heat loads. Eventually spun off/privatised. 40% of the wind energy of the entire European continent blows over the British Isles.

But I'd imagine that the EU wouldn't allow that?

[dances with sheeple]

22 hours ago, highYield said:

The LibDems used to be the protest vote, but they blew public trust with their broken manifesto promises & pathetic coalition cop outs. I'll never vote for them again. They're as bad as the other two.

Today they're still propping the Tories up. Lewes is a pretty radical town for the SE: 

 

That they are the only credible Remain vote just shows how badly Remain has lost this argument IMO.

[pig]

9 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

Well you'll need to know your place after Brexit so it's good practice. you don't need an education when you're working to make JRM richer. All you need is expert forelock tugging and perfect cap doffing.

Heard him on R4 Today - did not know whether to laugh or cry.

Hes written a book about ‘Great Victorians’, which by all accounts is utter utter tripe designed to self-aggrandise and post-rationalise  his outlook.

We’re in the grip of an institutional insanity that would be barely credible in fiction.

 

[Bruce Banner]

2 minutes ago, dances with sheeple said:

That they are the only credible Remain vote just shows how badly Remain has lost this argument IMO.

Hardly an argument, more a matter of opinion.

The only argument I see is whether or not democracy ended in 2016.

[dances with sheeple]

22 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

It is possible that the overriding need to save the Tory party will push us into a WTO exit but then economic reality will intrude and we will eventually end in much the same place as where for the same reason the WA will take us. The WTO fantasy will set us up for a fair bit of national humiliation on the way, as the deals made to preserve trade drag us back into the EU's orbit with us ending up in some form of associate membership.  

Really? The prevailing opinion on lots of media now is that the EU bluff fails when No Deal is a credible threat, they will be back round the table straight away IMO. Lets see the election results first for a clearer picture of where the EU is heading though.

[Exiled Canadian]

59 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

Have we heard anything from Farage about British Steel, for instance? Massive Leave voting constituency, left behind economically; strategic industry, national champions etc.

Perfect case for the Brexit Party to expand on. So where's the support?

I would be interested to see how Mr Farage is greeted in Scunthorpe.....I have no idea which way that would go.

[dances with sheeple]

1 minute ago, Bruce Banner said:

Hardly an argument, more a matter of opinion.

The only argument I see is whether or not democracy ended in 2016.

Remain has lost the battle for hearts and minds IMO, just switch on the telly to see remainers stuttering out the same old rubbish as the political reality just races away from them.

[dances with sheeple]

22 hours ago, Spindler said:

we don;t get to vote for the queen unfortunately.....1.59 explains you dont vote for kings(or queens)

 

 

Yes, and some want us not to be able to vote for Brexit either, if the establishment got their way we wouldn`t be voting on anything, so vote Brexit party now while you still can.

[dances with sheeple]

22 hours ago, pig said:

Sure  how the vote splits between Leave/Remain might be say something  ....but your analysis is of course completely messed up and tendentious. 

Clearly you are suddenly interested in democracy because specifically the Brexit Party should do well. You are keen to ban it in the case of a 2nd ref for fear democracy rejects Brexiter cr4p.

Pretty corrupt and unprincipled if you ask me.

Unlike of course your analysis that we should have a second ref. (because you don`t like the result) before we enact the first one - that is truly principled I must say  Thankfully it doesn`t look like the voting public are going to fall for it ?

 

 

 

 

[micawber]

Quote

I just don't get the 'No Deal' hysteria. All that means is that we Leave and then we Deal. After all, that's the only way we get "Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed".

 

[jonb2]

9 minutes ago, pig said:

Heard him on R4 Today - did not know whether to laugh or cry.

Hes written a book about ‘Great Victorians’, which by all accounts is utter utter tripe designed to self-aggrandise and post-rationalise  his outlook.

We’re in the grip of an institutional insanity that would be barely credible in fiction.

 

He's like Farage and the rest of them. Dollar signs in his eyes and completely out of touch.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/19/jacob-rees-mogg-book-the-victorians-12-titans-who-forged-britain

How anybody can argue that Brexit is a shout against the elites when you look at the mob running it is the funniest of jokes. Now that we are living in an age of total denial - how's about we start a war with China? After all we're British don't you know! Bound to win.

[dances with sheeple]

22 hours ago, Dorkins said:

When did you last vote for the Queen? 

Parliament is sovereign so the royal family serves no purpose. Abolish their constitutional role and put them on JSA and housing benefit. If the Scots have any sense they will leave as a republic like the Irish did.

It was a joke, not a very funny one though because obviously certain elements in the country don`t want votes on other issues as well (if they lose that is)

[jonb2]

12 minutes ago, Exiled Canadian said:

I would be interested to see how Mr Farage is greeted in Scunthorpe.....I have no idea which way that would go.

He has not mentioned the Japanese either. He doesn't give a monkeys what happens after Brexit. His only input when asked for his grand vision is to privatise healthcare.

Anyway, I wouldn't worry about our Nige - he'll have a new uniform.

https://newsthump.com/2019/05/20/brexit-party-to-avoid-further-unfortunate-milkshake-incidents-with-new-protective-uniform/

[Confusion of VIs]

 

1 hour ago, Riedquat said:

aI'm often one for preferring to live in the past, not being terribly enamoured with the present or likely future, but I do get rather tired of people who hold grudges about things that they weren't on the receiving end of, directing those grudges towards people who didn't have anything to do with them. Why not have a go at the Italians about the Roman Occupation while we're at it? Have they compensated us yet for the actions of Julius Caesar?

Indian's do remember their countries recent past and Modi has stoked a revival of interest in the impact of colonialism, how the richest country in the world was impoverished by it  and the brutality of British rule.

Those thinking that the Indian's have some love for the British that will somehow be of benefit to us are deluding themselves, until recently the Indian's had a grudging respect for the British but the current shambles has pretty much destroyed that.

A couple of year's ago an Indian colleague told me that back home most people we watching the British attempt to leave the EU with amusement, wondering how their old masters had got themselves into such a mess. If they were amused then they must be rolling in the isles by now.   

[dances with sheeple]

18 hours ago, zugzwang said:

I voted Leave but changed my mind when the Leave argument got hi-jacked by the Far Right. I could never in good conscience vote for Farage.

On the other hand, I still believe the referendum result has to be respected; the idea of a confirmatory vote makes me uneasy. We have to leave. The immediate impact of a Soft Brexit would be economically negative but the difference could soon be made up were the govt to start spending again at a reasonable clip.

So, Labour gets my vote as the best of a no-good bunch, with Common Market 2.0 (without a 2nd Ref) as my ideal compromise. But really, Labour's focus should have been on Freedom of Capital and the grotesque inequalities that follow from it rather than Freedom of Movement. Restrict FoC and the immigration issue would cure itself.

 

All good points, although Farage is the only politician I could vote for, maybe JC (but only for the chaos he would bring to disrupt the bailed out debt ponzi) IMO we are heading for No Deal as the only realistic way out now.

[Bruce Banner]

16 minutes ago, dances with sheeple said:

Remain has lost the battle for hearts and minds IMO, just switch on the telly to see remainers stuttering out the same old rubbish as the political reality just races away from them.

If Brexit happens then I pray that it is the hardest of hard versions so that I can enjoy watching the smug smiles of the Brexiteers fade as they realise what they have done.