billybong Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 (edited) . Edited September 6, 2016 by billybong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 (edited) I suspect that those people will continue feeling the same way whatever May manages to deliver. The(ir) world has moved on and the clock is not going to be turned back even if immigration was halved tomorrow. Indeed the British world has moved on and will most likely never be quite the same again but some people (I'll grant you not all) regard some of the changes as regrettable and quite contrary to what was promised as well as not being for the better (congestion, house prices and housing and massive immigration being some of the obvious issues) and would rather that the "progress" be more beneficial than it's currently turning out to be. May currently has it in her power to change things for the better and it is possible - something that her predecessors have been abject failures at over the years and decades except for lining their own pockets. No doubt in the fullness of time it will get sorted out to some extent by the ballot box and now that new parties are starting to emerge there's more chance of that than before and in recent times. Edited September 6, 2016 by billybong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 Another indicator that May is not going to be railroaded by Davis and Fox. Theresa May rebukes David Davis over warnings that the UK could leave the single market http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/theresa-may-rebukes-david-davis-over-warning-that-uk-could-leave/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 Another indicator that May is not going to be railroaded by Davis and Fox. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/theresa-may-rebukes-david-davis-over-warning-that-uk-could-leave/ Its the voting population she needs to worry about. She's got over 17 million people waiting to 'railroad her' if she doesn't provide what they voted for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
long time lurking Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 (edited) So the nub of it is that the Immigration-is-the-problem lobby think is we can reduce the 100,000's of E European restaurant workers and care workers and builders and agricultural workers and replace them with Brits somehow. I take it the plan is to starve workshy Brits into jobs? Can't see any Government having the guts to try it. There will always be work shy element in any society The problem we have is there are many eager to work indigenous people unemployed whilst at the same time there are plenty of EE working and employed in the same trades ...because they will work for well below the UK`s going rate (they have an incentive even at those rates) ...we are working our way down to the lowest common denominator at the expense of the UK`s workforce for the benefit of the corporate giants Edited September 6, 2016 by long time lurking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 There will always be work shy element in any society the problem we have is there are many eager to work indigenous people unemployed whilst at the same time there are plenty of EE working and employed in the same trades ...because they will work for well below the UK`s going rate ...we are working our way down to the lowest common denominator at the exspese of the UK`s workforce for the benefit of the corporate giants That's economic efficiency and ever-increasing scales for you, a big steaming race to the bottom. Got to keep up with screwing things up in case you get left behind and all the business clears off to somewhere else where they can screw everything up, leaving you with no jobs. This is called "wealth and prosperity." Apparently that's a good thing and we should do our best to keep in the race for the bottom instead of saying "to hell with this" and trying to figure out something better for ourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
long time lurking Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 Yep - so the anger about immigration will either subside as these people just get used to it - or get worse. I think option B. Option b is odds on now, the genies out of the bottle and there`s only one way to get it back in fail to do so and it`s P45 time It would not surprise me though if they think they know better just like Dave & co thought a remain vote was a done deal the longer it goes on the angrier the people will get and the number of people will only increase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knock out johnny Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 (edited) Another indicator that May is not going to be railroaded by Davis and Fox. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/theresa-may-rebukes-david-davis-over-warning-that-uk-could-leave/ Theresa May has slapped down one of her most senior Cabinet Ministers after he said it is "very improbable" that the UK will remain a member of the single market if the country is to regain control of its borders. The Prime Minister's spokesman said it is not right to be "putting all your cards on the table" and claimed David Davis was setting out "his opinion", not government policy, when he spoke in Parliament yesterday. Mr Davis told the House of Commons that it is "a simple truth" that if the UK was forced to accept free movement of people it would be unlikely that the country could remain in the single market. David Davis is a fcking moron Edited September 6, 2016 by knock out johnny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 Theresa May has slapped down one of her most senior Cabinet Ministers after he said it is "very improbable" that the UK will remain a member of the single market if the country is to regain control of its borders. The Prime Minister's spokesman said it is not right to be "putting all your cards on the table" and claimed David Davis was setting out "his opinion", not government policy, when he spoke in Parliament yesterday. Mr Davis told the House of Commons that it is "a simple truth" that if the UK was forced to accept free movement of people it would be unlikely that the country could remain in the single market. David Davis is a fcking moron Thats assuming he said that. Lots of spin. I still think what I did when the Brexit vote took place: UK benefits will be removed from non-UK nationals. No HB or TCs. 80% of EEs will go home. FOM will remain, will the proviso that you need a job and means of support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 There will always be work shy element in any society The problem we have is there are many eager to work indigenous people unemployed whilst at the same time there are plenty of EE working and employed in the same trades ...because they will work for well below the UK`s going rate (they have an incentive even at those rates) ...we are working our way down to the lowest common denominator at the expense of the UK`s workforce for the benefit of the corporate giants No. We ahve a load on low vlaue people, being subbed by UK taxation. TCs are insane. Doubly insane are they available to EU nationals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knock out johnny Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 Thats assuming he said that. Lots of spin. I still think what I did when the Brexit vote took place: UK benefits will be removed from non-UK nationals. No HB or TCs. 80% of EEs will go home. FOM will remain, will the proviso that you need a job and means of support. Oh, how I hope you are right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canbuywontbuy Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 (edited) I never thought I'd say this, but I am hoping for the EU to fall apart gently, it's the best thing that can happen for the UK. Fair play to you. It's a crazy world and nothing is set in stone. There are always unintended consequences even with the best of intentions. The EU's FOM has been a disaster for the UK. It was a perfect storm of a crazy WTC / HB/ CB benefits system free buffet with English being a popular language - boom - you have an asymmetrical FOM system that sucks the Eastern European countries dry of its young working population and dumps them into the UK, whose infrastructure can't cope with it, nor can it afford the benefits bill. It's cannibalised the future via a growing national debt that's gone way way way out of control. What's not to hate? Edited September 6, 2016 by canbuywontbuy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairyland Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 I still think what I did when the Brexit vote took place: UK benefits will be removed from non-UK nationals. No HB or TCs. 80% of EEs will go home. FOM will remain, will the proviso that you need a job and means of support. Seems very fair to me. That is how it normally should be. However, what happens to those brits on dole in other EU countries? Assuming there are some of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knock out johnny Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 (edited) Seems very fair to me. That is how it normally should be. However, what happens to those brits on dole in other EU countries? Assuming there are some of them. If there are brits on benefits abroad I'd totally understand if their host country cut their money to zero. I really can't see this being an issue Edited September 6, 2016 by knock out johnny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
long time lurking Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 I suspect that those people will continue feeling the same way whatever May manages to deliver. The(ir) world has moved on and the clock is not going to be turned back even if immigration was halved tomorrow. The only way people will accept the situation is when we have full employment at UK rates ....that`s not going to happen when it comes to tradesmen ..my money is on their rate will merge with NMW with in the next 10 years EE are already working for not much more now around my way that`s 50% below what those trades were paying 10 years ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 Oh, how I hope you are right Joutnos dont even bother these days. Fix the allegation to papers position. Wierdly,despiteghd claims from the left, Ive found the Times to be most balanced daily. I read a few up to thd brexit vote. Most commentators were proEU. It was corbyn wot lost it... Not Murdoch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royw6 Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 (edited) No. We ahve a load on low vlaue people, being subbed by UK taxation. TCs are insane. Doubly insane are they available to EU nationals. Yes the old age, those on pensions. I saw a great show called Logan's run, that would solve the issue of pension deficits and pensioners clogging up our hospitals. Actually, northerners produce less than southerners, so let's sort them too.Ok look, what is it about some on here "the nasty gang" who for some reason focus on the fact that a child, whoever it might be, might need shoes or an education. Why shouldn't they go to school, why shouldn't their parent have child benefit to help feed them, why should they be treated as second class citizens. You cannot withhold all benefits from migrants until they have been here for so many years unless you want increased homelessness, proper developing world poverty, a social underclass and unrest. What possible reason other than being cold hearted and vile can you give for denying a person equal treatment with another? The money issue has been debunked by David Davies, so if the argument is to make the uk such a cesspool of human suffering that people won't come here fine. But is that the uk you want? Just as important as your moral understanding of the suffering you are arguing for is the wider impact. Once the Tory party gains agreement to the dismantling of what little equality and redistribution that exists for the poor currently (our social system of benefits, , pensions, education, health etc (it is a package and indivisible)), the next argument will follow that if it is good enough for one group of individuals, it is fair and proper to apply it to all. You will find the laissez-faire values of old from the last century will return, and all social government care dissolves. Becareful what you wish for. Edited September 6, 2016 by Royw6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
long time lurking Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 (edited) No. We ahve a load on low vlaue people, being subbed by UK taxation. TCs are insane. Doubly insane are they available to EU nationals. Without a doubt some are relying on WTC but the ones working in the industries i work in are here for the work not benefits they work long hours, live 4-6 people +in a three bed house then take it in turns to go home stocking up on all the basics needed to live here in there home country (selling cheap fags/booze also tops up their wage) It may be different in other parts of the country/industries but from what i have witnessed it`s young single/couples/no kids working to fiance a far better life back home removing benefits will have no effect on these people as most have no intention of making the UK their home I personally know EE`s who have settled here and they now feel the same about the effects their countrymen are having on their wages/job opportunities as i do ,i concede these people are working in an industries that would not normally leave them with any entitlement to WTC when employed and earning the UK rate (the only rate they can now afford to work for) but do use out of work benefits as a safety net just like any indigenous worker would There are obviously EE that are milking the WTC system , where did the 80% come from as in, is it from a legitimate source ? £9.00 hr NMW will be a massive draw when you look at the average wage in the EE countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage WTC HB will be irrelevant to most IMO unless your 80% is from a legitimate source stating that percentage are claiming either or both if so i stand corrected and the situation is far worse than i thought Edited September 6, 2016 by long time lurking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
long time lurking Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 (edited) Joutnos dont even bother these days. Fix the allegation to papers position. Wierdly,despiteghd claims from the left, Ive found the Times to be most balanced daily. I read a few up to thd brexit vote. Most commentators were proEU. It was corbyn wot lost it... Not Murdoch. Corbyn was the only wise man in the game on the remain side ,when he saw what way his core voters were voting he shut the feck up ,the rhetoric from team red in the coming months will turn to the UK needing to control immigration that`s a guarantee ...this is the last throw of the dice for team red IMO Edited September 6, 2016 by long time lurking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 Without a doubt some are relying on WTC but the ones working in the industries i work in are here for the work not benefits they work long hours, live 4-6 people +in a three bed house then take it in turns to go home stocking up on all the basics needed to live here in there home country (selling cheap fags/booze also tops up their wage) It may be different in other parts of the country/industries but from what i have witnessed it`s young single/couples/no kids working to fiance a far better life back home removing benefits will have no effect on these people as most have no intention of making the UK their home I personally know EE`s who have settled here and they now feel the same about the effects their countrymen are having on their wages/job opportunities as i do ,i concede these people are working in an industries that would not normally leave them with any entitlement to WTC when employed and earning the UK rate (the only rate they can now afford to work for) but do use out of work benefits as a safety net just like any indigenous worker would There are obviously EE that are milking the WTC system , where did the 80% come from as in, is it from a legitimate source ? £9.00 hr NMW will be a massive draw when you look at the average wage in the EE countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage WTC HB will be irrelevant to most IMO unless your 80% is from a legitimate source stating that percentage are claiming either or both if so i stand corrected and the situation is far worse than i thought 80% of EUers earn less than the 35k limit thsts thr hurdle on coming to the UK. The median wage stats dont lie. Most EEs earn a lot less than the median. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 Id add tha dont need to bring their kids over. Claim TCs, claim CB for kid at home, claim WTC, earn rest cash in hand. The whole system is fcked. Dealing with 3m EE as well is insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 Corbyn was the only wise man in the game on the remain side ,when he saw what way his core voters were voting he shut the feck up ,the rhetoric from team red in the coming months will turn to the UK needing to control immigration that`s a guarantee ...this is the last throw of the dice for team red IMO Corbyn has never talked to an typical Labour voter. Ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royw6 Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 80% of EUers earn less than the 35k limit thsts thr hurdle on coming to the UK. The median wage stats dont lie. Most EEs earn a lot less than the median. That is not a credible stat then. You are adding oranges with apples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 That is not a credible stat then. You are adding oranges with apples. Tablet. Cannot link to research. EE earn fckall on average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 Tablet. Cannot link to research. EE earn fckall on average. Dave Beans posted it at http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/210294-brexit-what-happens-next-thread/?p=1103093043 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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