interestrateripoff Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/sep/22/vw-scandal-caused-nearly-1m-tonnes-of-extra-pollution-analysis-shows For years, UK air pollution measurements have failed to show improvements in air quality, even as standards have tightened. “Since 2003 scientists have been saying things are not right. It’s not just the VW story, this is part of something much bigger,” said Dr Gary Fuller, also of King’s College. “It has a serious public health impact.” Last week, a report from NGO Transport & Environment found that Europe’s testing regime was allowing nine out of every 10 new diesel vehicles to breach EU limits. Testing regimes in the EU are known to fail to pick up “real world” emissions because cars are not driven in the same way in the laboratory as on the road. Some studies suggest the discrepancy may be up to seven times the legal limit. .. In a sign that the emissions scandal will not remain restricted to the US, a Venice court will next month hear a case against VW and Fiat for misleading test advertising. The Italian consumer rights group Altroconsumo is due to press its case for a class action suit against VW and Fiat on 2 October, after laboratory tests showed that fuel consumption and CO2 emissions from the VW Golf 1.6 and Fiat Panda 1.2 were up to 50% higher than claimed. Altroconsumo wants the German car firm to pay damages of €502 (£365) to the owner of a VW Golf in a case that raises the possibility of widescale compensation payouts by the car industry. Monique Goyens, the director of the European consumer rights umbrella group BEUC, which includes Altroconsumo, called for an investigation by the European commission into the use of software programmes to “game” European emissions tests. Looks like the whole industry will be in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash4781 Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Anyone else excited about cheaper Volkswagen's in the future ? Edit-downsides including global trader relations, corporate culture, currency wars, and loss of workforces are also worrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uptherebels Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Not in all cases. I have a well serviced 1.6l petrol car that has also just had a brand new cat fitted. My road tax is £155. Some diesel vehicles that give off lung destroying gases are zero-rated. Diesels are bad enough to begin with - fake emissions does not surprise me. Did you not know that before you got the car? Or are you just bitter? I'm paying nearly double what you are, yet I'm happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Barlow Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV. Great car BTW apart from the entertainment console being riddled with issues/annoyances. If I did charge it I would get about 15 miles out of the battery under motorway conditions. Not going to put much of a dent in a 250 mile trip. Also, technically I'm supposed to charge from a dedicated isolated plug (despite it pulling less current than a kettle) which I don't have.. and even if I installed one the electricity would cost me additional money on top of the BIK which is a fixed amount per year. We considered one of them however $50K versus the $28K we paid for a Qashqai in the end was no contest. Also we only do about 15K km - probably less as the Mrs is on maternity leave for another 11 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Anyone else excited about cheaper Volkswagen's in the future ?Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 If they're all at it and finding it difficult to meet the limits then maybe the limits should be changed as they're probably a bit arbitrary at any rate. Of course if they're massively over then they should be applied. Now that they need extra money the fines will come in handy I'm sure - it's not unlike PPI, a form of helicopter money held in reserve until the time comes for the authorities to make a claim. I mean to say it's not as if they couldn't have found out earlier is it. Is some whistle blower going to be sacked now like they did/do in the banking industry and elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OurDayWillCome Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Did you not know that before you got the car? Or are you just bitter? I'm paying nearly double what you are, yet I'm happy I have had the car 12 years. I have always preferred petrol to diesel - I am not bitter but I am very concerned about the impact of diesel emissions in cities and labelling the things as clean has always annoyed me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snafu Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 What's the tin foil hat aspect of this. Is this the US punshing Mrs Merkel for anything? This will hit the German economy when the other car makers are shown to be equally dubious. Mercs and BMW must sell well in the US too right? Or is that only petrol, but then it seems petrol might be impacted too. Germany contracting how much due to this? What does the US want her to do? Edit: Auto industry in Germany 2.7% of GDP but 20% of exports? http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/22/news/economy/volkswagen-germany-cars-economy/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snafu Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Surprise as Tim Tozer resigns as Vauxhall bossNext VAG chairman? Or .....does GM do what VAG does. Or no connection at all....I'm becoming Errol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandwiches33 Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 They only just took the title as worlds biggest car producer too nudging ahead of Toyota who fell down due to there "issues". You cant have dirty secrets in this internet age everything comes out eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snafu Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Winterkorn resigns. And: German public prosecutors launch criminal inquiry into VW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Bear Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 If you have worked out how to game the tests, you will game them all if you can. For the MPG tests aren't manufacturers allowed to tape up the doors etc... to make the car more aerodynamic? I mean how can anyone take these types of tests seriously? No one with an IQ in double digits would take the absolute figures seriously but you could probably depend on the comparative figures. If car A gives 50mpg in the official test and car B gives 40 you would probably be fairly safe to assume that car B will use 25% more fuel than car A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNACR Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 What's the tin foil hat aspect of this. Is this the US punshing Mrs Merkel for anything? This will hit the German economy when the other car makers are shown to be equally dubious. Mercs and BMW must sell well in the US too right? Or is that only petrol, but then it seems petrol might be impacted too. Germany contracting how much due to this? What does the US want her to do? Edit: Auto industry in Germany 2.7% of GDP but 20% of exports? http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/22/news/economy/volkswagen-germany-cars-economy/ I've seen big VW car plants in official baddie Putin's Russia - which has just announced troop deployments to Syria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 It was on Radio 4 (I think) several months ago that cars can detect when they are undergoing the mpg test and adjust things accordingly. This was said quite openly by the interviewee, as if it was common knowledge in the industry. It was implied this is the biggest reason why mpg test results are so much better than real-world results, it was not just down to smooth tyres, taking out "excess weight" and taping up the doors etc. Admittedly this was for mpg results, not emissions per se. But it implied this test detection software was basically industry standard. Yet it caused no fuss, maybe I was the only one listening? If so it's funny because it was late afternoon when I was driving home from work, not the middle of the night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CunningPlan Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 It was on Radio 4 (I think) several months ago that cars can detect when they are undergoing the mpg test and adjust things accordingly. This was said quite openly by the interviewee, as if it was common knowledge in the industry. It was implied this is the biggest reason why mpg test results are so much better than real-world results, it was not just down to smooth tyres, taking out "excess weight" and taping up the doors etc. Admittedly this was for mpg results, not emissions per se. But it implied this test detection software was basically industry standard. Yet it caused no fuss, maybe I was the only one listening? If so it's funny because it was late afternoon when I was driving home from work, not the middle of the night. Bit like borrowing your mate's front wheel and tyre from his Yamaha FSiSE for the day to pass the MOT since he was the only guy around with tread - it is only a snapshot in time. I also wonder how much these figures deteriorate over a reasonably short time (as I understand acceleration figures do)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronyx Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 I also wonder how much these figures deteriorate over a reasonably short time (as I understand acceleration figures do)? That's why I keep mine garaged, to stop the horses escaping from under the bonnet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giesahoose Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 What's the point in getting animated about cars having a bit more emissions than claimed when everyone else is driving "trucks" that don't seem to be impacted by the same legislation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libspero Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 What's the point in getting animated about cars having a bit more emissions than claimed when everyone else is driving "trucks" that don't seem to be impacted by the same legislation I think trucks have been having to add urea (ad-blue) for quite a while now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libspero Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 The bigger question is, if NOX is so terribly harmful, how come lung cancer rates in the US are just as high or higher than most European countries? [given they've always driven petrol and Europe have been driving diesel's for decades]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNACR Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 I think trucks have been having to add urea (ad-blue) for quite a while now. Yes for at least seven or eight years. Eventually, when the nice man takes them to ship to Africa, ever conscious of the environment he removes the whole exhaust emissions system and recycles it. This saves harming the environment by mining more metals and saves the Africans the hassle of driving a truck with an expensive to maintain emissions system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LumpHammer Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 The UK VED bands were always about encouraging consumption by making older average cars expensive, NOX and particulates are a much bigger environmental problem than CO2 in my opinion. That's why I keep mine garaged, to stop the horses escaping from under the bonnet A normally aspirated petrol shouldn't change too much so long as it's regularly serviced. The biggest fuel economy change in petrols will be from sensors drifting or getting gunked up i.e. heated O2 / lambda, intake temperature and manifold pressure causing misfueling. Diesels have a lot more stuff going on than petrols, they're very complicated engines. For many people the service costs don't outweigh any increase in fuel economy. I'm not surprised that this was found on diesels. Being behind a modern diesel as the driver puts their foot down and the system purges the exhaust isn't a positive environmental experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveinHope Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Well, diesel is better for reducing our climate change impact but worse for local pollution. Long-term versus short-term effects. Depends upon your outlook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayder Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Bought some shares. Bargain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronyx Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Here are some merkins worrying about diesel emissions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saving For a Space Ship Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Here are some merkins worrying about diesel emissions Reminds me of what Vw execs do on their weekend off.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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