Doesn't Commute Anymore Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 (edited) You are creating obstacles that simply will not be created by the expansionist organisations in question. Robertson wants to invite Russia into NATO, you suggest that Scotland would be either a pariah, or have requirements foisted on them that would not be acceptable. Again, a simple question. Do you imagine NATO would leave the back door open? Of course not. You are making dangerous and niave assumptions about the friendliness of foreign countries in diplomatic situations. Stop thinking the world would embrace Scotland and welcome it into organisations like NATO. Expect hostility from other countries with separatist regions, and exploitation from whomever offers a "helping hand" to a new Scotland. Expect to have no control over fiscal policies when piggybacking on another countries currency. Edited September 8, 2014 by Does Commute Abit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieAndy Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 A long and detailed article on it all here: http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article47228.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 The guest could not explain the reasons why - perhaps he did not understand - but the BBC interviewer either does not understand either or was simply trying to get the guy to explain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doomed Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 I would so love this to actually happen, but does anyone seriously think it will? If it does I may remove my tinfoil hat and actually start to believe that we may be in control of our own destiny. I see zero upside for TPTB to allow it to happen so for this reason alone can't see it coming to pass. Very interested observer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer466 Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 You are making dangerous and niave assumptions about the friendliness of foreign countries in diplomatic situations. Stop thinking the world would embrace Scotland and welcome it into organisations like NATO. Expect hostility from other countries with separatist regions, and exploitation from whomever offers a "helping hand" to a new Scotland. Expect to have no control over fiscal policies when piggybacking on another countries currency. Pretty much how I read it. Spain will NEVER allow an independent Scotland to join the EU. It would be setting a huge precedent as to their own autonomies. There have been real low key terrorist campaigns in those regions on and off over the last few decades. not a bit of holiday home arson but real guns and bombs stuff. Spain has always held a tough line and has never given an inch. I find it delusional that anyone can argue anything different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Ah, forget about all of this independence stuff now folks... there is going to be another Royal baby.... I am surprised they leaked this prior to the vote in Scotland - might make some of the fence sitters move over to the YES camp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellerkat Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 How long before London wheels out the Queen/Charles/Anne/William/Harry? It's becoming comical Kate's pregnant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dances with sheeple Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 The campaign is getting dirty now. Going after the Scots with their worst fear - house prices. Scottish homeowners face mortgage meltdown if Yes campaign wins http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/11080611/Scottish-homeowners-face-mortgage-meltdown-if-Yes-campaign-wins.html "They would also be exposed to the Bank of England increasing interest rates south of the border, further adding to the cost of servicing Scottish mortgage debt irrespective of the independent country’s new set of economic circumstances. " So they would be in the same boat as they are in now? If Scotland goes independent all mortgage holders are going to face headwinds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 You are making dangerous and niave assumptions about the friendliness of foreign countries in diplomatic situations. Stop thinking the world would embrace Scotland and welcome it into organisations like NATO. Expect hostility from other countries with separatist regions, and exploitation from whomever offers a "helping hand" to a new Scotland. Expect to have no control over fiscal policies when piggybacking on another countries currency. The EU has 7 current members which did not exist when Scotland joined as part of the UK in 1973. Scottish independence may cause some uncomfortable thoughts for some countries but the idea that the EU or NATO are institutionally hostile to separatism is laughable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroSumGame Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 I note today Free Marketers on the No side are orgasming over Paul Krugman's NYT (bankers' sponsored) piece. Pathetic. The road to Currency Union was backed by Joseph Stiglitz. You pays your money .......you choose your Nobel prize winning economist. Still the best bit of this whole campaign, is how the NOs lost a lead of 22 points to a deficit of one in just 4-weeks. Westminster jokers at their finest. Looks like Rupert Murdoch is having a laugh on Twitter too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 (edited) Kate's pregnant. She's having a bairn? Edited September 8, 2014 by thecrashingisles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Scotland has met the conditions for membership, and has implement EU rules and regulations in all areas, for decades. As for joining the EURO, we use the same mechanism as others. Participation in ERMII for 24 months is a prerequisite to joining the EURO, participation in ERMII is entirely voluntary. Simple, but effective. How do you stop the currency from fluctuating outside the limits when you don't control monetary policy? Please explain as you are hoping that the BoE play nicely, whilst you try and join. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 The road to Currency Union was backed by Joseph Stiglitz. You pays your money .......you choose your Nobel prize winning economist. Still the best bit of this whole campaign, is how the NOs lost a lead of 22 points to a deficit of one in just 4-weeks. Westminster jokers at their finest. Looks like Rupert Murdoch is having a laugh on Twitter too. You follow Rupert Murdoch on twitter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dances with sheeple Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 "The cost of the borrowing for big international banks would be exactly the same" - Just underlines that we are in a Bankers V Sheeple world? People should just forget the financial scare stories and go ahead and diminish the power of Queenie and Westminster a bit? A EZ break up would cause turmoil on world markets, not Scotland saying bye bye to the union? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer466 Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Ah, forget about all of this independence stuff now folks... there is going to be another Royal baby.... I am surprised they leaked this prior to the vote in Scotland - might make some of the fence sitters move over to the YES camp. She has the same chucking up complaint as per the first time round. The early announcement will save the endless press speculation when the pictures start emerging of her barfing into litter bins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashmonitor Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 (edited) I would so love this to actually happen, but does anyone seriously think it will? If it does I may remove my tinfoil hat and actually start to believe that we may be in control of our own destiny. I see zero upside for TPTB to allow it to happen so for this reason alone can't see it coming to pass. Very interested observer. No public sector redundancies apparently when England repatriate all the admin jobs. Salmond is going to transfer all the idle workers to the Scottish Civil Service. It's going to be the Mother of all Civil Services. Hope you have got deep pockets....well you might with all that oil. http://www.cumbernauld-news.co.uk/news/local-news/warning-on-jobs-is-scaremongering-1-3531229 Edited September 8, 2014 by crashmonitor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearwithasorehead Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 The EU has 7 current members which did not exist when Scotland joined as part of the UK in 1973. Scottish independence may cause some uncomfortable thoughts for some countries but the idea that the EU or NATO are institutionally hostile to separatism is laughable. Wait, that's 'good' separatism because it was Warsaw pact countries. If it is at home it is 'bad' separatism'. get with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AThirdWay Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 You are making dangerous and niave assumptions about the friendliness of foreign countries in diplomatic situations. Stop thinking the world would embrace Scotland and welcome it into organisations like NATO. Expect hostility from other countries with separatist regions, and exploitation from whomever offers a "helping hand" to a new Scotland. Expect to have no control over fiscal policies when piggybacking on another countries currency. I agree with your last sentence, we'll have to agree to disagree with the rest I'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AThirdWay Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Pretty much how I read it. Spain will NEVER allow an independent Scotland to join the EU. It would be setting a huge precedent as to their own autonomies. There have been real low key terrorist campaigns in those regions on and off over the last few decades. not a bit of holiday home arson but real guns and bombs stuff. Spain has always held a tough line and has never given an inch. I find it delusional that anyone can argue anything different. Behind their paywall, but you get the gist. http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/977a39ea-8c26-11e3-9b1d-00144feab7de.html#axzz3CiCEzu1y Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashmonitor Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Pound tanked to $1.62........ the panic is already starting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dances with sheeple Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 No public sector redundancies apparently when England repatriate all the admin jobs. Salmond is going to transfer all the idle workers to the Scottish Civil Service. It's going to be the Mother of all Civil Services. Hope you have got deep pockets....well you might with all that oil. http://www.cumbernauld-news.co.uk/news/local-news/warning-on-jobs-is-scaremongering-1-3531229 And tiny population makes it easier? England is going to go under under the weight of all the chav benefit reliants I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoWolves Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Delusional? There's a lot of it about then http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/mar/11/rbs-may-move-hq-england-scotland-independence-carney http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/02/would-scotland-really-suffer-if-rbs-moved-after-independence http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/d72a8780-8e87-11e3-b6f1-00144feab7de.html#axzz3CiCEzu1y http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-independence-rbs-could-move-hq-after-independence-warns-bank-chief-1-2631249 I am aware that these links relate to AFTER independence, is that what you mean by delusional? These articles discuss a different point to the one I'm raising. RBS has sizable liabilities outstanding, I don't think you or the Nats understand fully how this works or why they should worry about it, the English establishment will undoubtedly pull the tit out of the baby's mouth and the Scots better have a plan. Generally I'm in favor of Scotland's independence, I just can't see any evidence of how they would survive economically. Massive state liabilities on the table and poor revenue streams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashmonitor Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 (edited) And tiny population makes it easier? England is going to go under under the weight of all the chav benefit reliants I think. Nobody knows how the sums will add up....the oil may well cover the additional public sector head count and ageing, welfare dependent populace. Not a gambler myself....Scotland is geared 11 times.......... 5 million/ as opposed to the 55 million remaining in the Union. Big win , big lose for the 5 million Scots.. For the 55 million that remain little change either way. Edited September 8, 2014 by crashmonitor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 What tariffs will be imposed on EU imports? And what duties will the EU put on Scottish exports? Will Scotland seek to join the WTO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 (edited) Pretty much how I read it. Spain will NEVER allow an independent Scotland to join the EU. It would be setting a huge precedent as to their own autonomies. There have been real low key terrorist campaigns in those regions on and off over the last few decades. not a bit of holiday home arson but real guns and bombs stuff. Spain has always held a tough line and has never given an inch. I find it delusional that anyone can argue anything different. Spain does not have as much power as you seem to think. Ultimately if it suits Germany then it will happen. In bailout negotiations with smaller countries do you think they want there to be an example of a smaller country outside the EU where the sky didn't fall in and life went on as normal? In addition, Scotland was a member of the EU when Spain was still ruled by a facist dictatorship. Edited September 8, 2014 by thecrashingisles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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