Living In A Hell Hole. Sorry, But That Is Not The Uk.

[spyguy]

I have spent 24 years in higher education and speak all the time to immigrants from all over the world, mostly the kind of immigrant who works hard, gets a scholarship to a uk university or whose family work hard to pay. They get a degree, sometimes a PhD and then of often a job in the uk. They universally love the lack of corruption and open mindedness of employers here , simply put in their their own countries you could have qualifications to the hilt and you would not get a job because of who you are. In the Middle East/south East Asia it is all about familial relationships, in Southern Europe it is about contacts and political alliances. For example, I have met many Italians, French, Spanish academics in the uk and they all say the same thing, you could not just apply for a job in their own country and rely on your cv to be considered!

I must admit thought that I find middle eastern students very schizophrenic about it (okay mostly Muslim but not all) they can admit that they like the v. low level of corruption but they will wax lyrically about how perfect their culture is really and how wonderful their country. If you try to tie them down on it you find a kind of cognetive dissonance where the failures of their cultures are always seen as due to outside influences (e.g. colonisation).

Ahh blame ******.

To be honest, the openess, fair mindedness, meritoracy is only found in bits of the USA, Canada, UK private sector (the UK public sector really only recruits from a certain social + political group), Germanic + Scandinavia, AUS and NZ - the concpet of a 'fair goes' is a well established. At a push I'd include he extreme North of Italy, NE + NW. I would not include any of France.

Places like the middle east wallow in a bottomless sh1t pool of corruption.

India is terrible - a country of ~1bln where the ~5% skim off 90% and another 5% work in the public sector.

[spyguy]

The asteris was blame - w h i t e y.

Thats one wierd abuse checker

[spyguy]

I have spent 24 years in higher education and speak all the time to immigrants from all over the world, mostly the kind of immigrant who works hard, gets a scholarship to a uk university or whose family work hard to pay. They get a degree, sometimes a PhD and then of often a job in the uk. They universally love the lack of corruption and open mindedness of employers here , simply put in their their own countries you could have qualifications to the hilt and you would not get a job because of who you are. In the Middle East/south East Asia it is all about familial relationships, in Southern Europe it is about contacts and political alliances. For example, I have met many Italians, French, Spanish academics in the uk and they all say the same thing, you could not just apply for a job in their own country and rely on your cv to be considered!

I must admit thought that I find middle eastern students very schizophrenic about it (okay mostly Muslim but not all) they can admit that they like the v. low level of corruption but they will wax lyrically about how perfect their culture is really and how wonderful their country. If you try to tie them down on it you find a kind of cognetive dissonance where the failures of their cultures are always seen as due to outside influences (e.g. colonisation).

The UK public sector may not be corrupt - and there's a lot of people who've seen the inner workings of planning and general local authority shenigans who might differ - but it certainly is slow and inefficient esp. compare to the Nordic.

[Ulfar]

The UK public sector may not be corrupt - and there's a lot of people who've seen the inner workings of planning and general local authority shenigans who might differ - but it certainly is slow and inefficient esp. compare to the Nordic.

The rank and file may not be corrupt but the system itself is. This is shown by the way some of the contracts are written, look at A4E, did they pay back the money they were paid. Look at any of the failed IT contracts.

[TheCountOfNowhere]

Groan - go and read the break of how your Council tax is spent - at least 50% will go to education, 20-25% social services and so on.

On that basis that 'taxation = hellhole' then Denmark, Sweden Norway must be utter hellholes. Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Mali a veritable paradise.

What about the other 60^ of our income that is taken from us.

it is naive to think this country is not corrupt. Just look what has gone on with the politicians and bankers over the last 20 years.

All those foreign aid donations....they're for charity I suppose

No wonder the British people sit back and get sh*t on at every turn,

Grow up and grow a pair.

[MarkG]

On that basis that 'taxation = hellhole' then Denmark, Sweden Norway must be utter hellholes. Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Mali a veritable paradise.

Indeed. If Britain was to slash tax rates, it could end up a despicable hell-hole like Andorra.

[Mrs Bear]

I have spent 24 years in higher education and speak all the time to immigrants from all over the world, mostly the kind of immigrant who works hard, gets a scholarship to a uk university or whose family work hard to pay. They get a degree, sometimes a PhD and then of often a job in the uk. They universally love the lack of corruption and open mindedness of employers here , simply put in their their own countries you could have qualifications to the hilt and you would not get a job because of who you are. In the Middle East/south East Asia it is all about familial relationships, in Southern Europe it is about contacts and political alliances. For example, I have met many Italians, French, Spanish academics in the uk and they all say the same thing, you could not just apply for a job in their own country and rely on your cv to be considered!

I must admit thought that I find middle eastern students very schizophrenic about it (okay mostly Muslim but not all) they can admit that they like the v. low level of corruption but they will wax lyrically about how perfect their culture is really and how wonderful their country. If you try to tie them down on it you find a kind of cognetive dissonance where the failures of their cultures are always seen as due to outside influences (e.g. colonisation).

Mr B had a much younger Italian colleague who had been here a few years with his Italian wife. He was highly qualified and spoke 3 languages. At a company do he told me that since he had no connections at home it was almost impossible to find a good job. They were intending to stay here long term order to allow their baby son eventually to succeed on his own merits. They had even given him a Brit name.

Daughter used to have an Italian boyfriend - they were both working for NGOs overseas but he was here on and off. He was a highly qualified architect but also had no connections back home. He told me that aside from connections, you are judged in the Italian workplace largely on your clothes. He said they will size up the cost and brand of everything you have on, even your belt (his exact words) and if it's not all expensive designer, then regardless of performance you are dirt. Of course I said he surely must be exaggerating, but he assured me he wasn't.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Mrs Bear

[MarkG]

Being a small tax haven taking a tiny slice of large potential tax revenues that are really derived from other, larger markets is not really quite the same is it?

Britain is much more similar to Andorra than Somalia. Why isn't it a much better comparison?

Does anyone really think that Britain would be a better place if only there was more, bigger, and more expensive government? Honestly? You think the problem with Britain is that there's NOT ENOUGH government interference in the economy?

[spyguy]

Mr B had a much younger Italian colleague who had been here a few years with his Italian wife. He was highly qualified and spoke 3 languages. At a company do he told me that since he had no connections at home it was almost impossible to find a good job. They were intending to stay here long term order to allow their baby son eventually to succeed on his own merits. They had even given him a Brit name.

Daughter used to have an Italian boyfriend - they were both working for NGOs overseas but he was here on and off. He was a highly qualified architect but also had no connections back home. He told me that aside from connections, you are judged in the Italian workplace largely on your clothes. He said they will size up the cost and brand of everything you have on, even your belt (his exact words) and if it's not all expensive designer, then regardless of performance you are dirt. Of course I said he surely must be exaggerating, but he assured me he wasn't.

Yep. Had an Itailian GF who was an architect. Said the same.

The clothes thing is true. Its a signal to indicate if you are backed up by money i.e. parents or a connection.

Italy needs a huge cking shake out and bonfire.

[campervanman]

Isn't the UK "hell hole" stuff mostly related to housing? Having the smallest and most expensive houses with the constant threat of having neighbours from hell next door that you cannot escape from may not be an issue as long as you have never experienced life in another country which has bigger houses for less money and enough room to avoid problems with people moving in next door that could make your life hell.

[sPinwheel]

Hell is other peoples' holes.

[debtlessmanc]

Yep. Had an Itailian GF who was an architect. Said the same.

The clothes thing is true. Its a signal to indicate if you are backed up by money i.e. parents or a connection.

Italy needs a huge cking shake out and bonfire.

Funny thing is, if you appoint one Italian, before you know where you are you have dozens of them. I am calm person (really) but the worse bastards I have met in my field is Italian by a long way.

One aspect which is good for the country but bad for its inhabitants, is the dominance of the language. Half the world can apply for jobs here and talk the language...

[cock-eyed octopus]

Try watching "In Darkness" ......

Edited July 27, 2014 by cock-eyed octopus

[Trampa501]

Thanks to everyone for their feedback here. I can understand why people are annoyed that certain things have gotten worse. However, as pointed out by a few here, it's still a country that has a lot of excellent features compared to other places. But yes, it's all under threat now from the bubble and its consequences.

[TheCountOfNowhere]

Thanks to everyone for their feedback here. I can understand why people are annoyed that certain things have gotten worse. However, as pointed out by a few here, it's still a country that has a lot of excellent features compared to other places. But yes, it's all under threat now from the bubble and its consequences.

Well said.

A new question...how do you stop it deteriorating ?

Edited July 28, 2014 by TheCountOfNowhere

[campervanman]

Get a Tardis and go back to 1979.

[debtlessmanc]

Actually applying the rule of law and secularising education would be a start

[zugzwang]

Get a Tardis and go back to 1979.

You don't need one. A seventies style stagflation is what's coming next.

[campervanman]

I was referring as to changing what followed the 1970's ie invest in the future Germany style instead of using tax cuts to buy cr@p UK style.

[TheCountOfNowhere]

I was referring as to changing what followed the 1970's ie invest in the future Germany style instead of using tax cuts to buy cr@p UK style.

That would be difficult, the problems must stem from the national psyche.

The Germans lost the war, they had to struggle and work hard to get to where they are. The people are fruggle, dont take on massive debt and have a society based on hard work and commnuity.

The British won the war, we are the best, we deserve the best, we dont have to work for it. We take on debt to buy now cause we know wages will rise ( ) and the debt will disappear.

The problem with Britain, is the British

[Billy soy]

Hell is other peoples' holes.

One generations hell is another generations heaven.

The uk is not a hell hole. But if you intend on living, working and retiring here then the housing, jobs/globalisation, pension/retirement situation has deteriorated pretty rapidly and very unevenly seemingly by design. Anger is legitimate.

Most people with the rose tinted specs on seem to be cash and/or asset rich, early retired.

Edited July 28, 2014 by hans kammler

[crashmonitor]

As Democurruptcy points out on this thread ''Rome wasn't built in a day'' and with Mrs. Bear's Italian architect friend we can look forward to a bright future.........

[crashmonitor]

Well, I`m a council dweller and life in a council estate is pretty damn good. Nobody bothers us.....

I`ve lived here 10 years and I`ve seen no crime at all.

Hell is other people down`t road.

I get that...two options for a quiet life, be a council dweller on an established council development and an older quiet demographic goes with the territory; otherwise you need to escape to the country to a house all on its own here or abroad......as per campervanman. Meanwhile I'm stuck in the noisy suburbs with large gardens which equals BBQs, improvised football pitches, bouncy castles and trampolines etc. etc,

Edited July 28, 2014 by crashmonitor

[TheCountOfNowhere]

As Democurruptcy points out on this thread ''Rome wasn't built in a day''

Some of those new build shoe boxes were though.

[EUBanana]

“The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naïve and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who likes his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair.”