When The Immigrants Come, Will They Mainly Stay In London

[papag]

They have the same rights as anyone in UK, it matters not if you have worked and paid taxes for the past 40 years or have just stepped off the boat from eastern europe. Full access to housing, education, health care, benefits etc just the same as you and me. Ask yourself, would you rather the poor and unemployed in eastern europe of UK.

edit to add, you would have the same rights as any eastern european in their home country as well so it is all very fair!!!

]Thats just it try claiming anything in Spain if you have not paid into their system , I dont think anyone would really complain if we had EU standardised benefits but we don't and that is where the problem starts and will get massively bigger for us.

[winkie]

]Thats just it try claiming anything in Spain if you have not paid into their system , I dont think anyone would really complain if we had EU standardised benefits but we don't and that is where the problem starts and will get massively bigger for us.

...I can confirm that......you only get out of it after you have put into it.

[Byron]

Let's face it.

The UK is HUGE, much bigger than the rest of the EU put together.

And RICH, far better off than any of those continental places.

We can afford to take all these people, we have lots of land to build oodles of houses on. We have an enormous excess of public services to handle them.

Empty schools, hospitals, dentists galore, even prisons for the criminal ones.

Our roads are mainly deserted, there is plenty of space.

OPEN the borders!!

[Snugglybear]

What access to public housing do i have here? None as a single man. As for same rights etc, as a Brit try that in France or Germany and let me know if you get treated the same as a local.

Oh, you will. I can't speak for Germany, but French citizens in France have to have contributed a certain amount or worked a certain number of hours within a specific reference period before being able to claim. So, the same rule applies to other EU citizens in France, including Brits.

[LeeT]

On the bright side at least we can now buy up all the Romanian farmland.

http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/romania-agriculture.rkj

[Wurzel Of Highbridge]

I can't see many new immigrants coming to the UK.

I have been looking at returning myself, and compared to living here in Ireland moving to the UK would be financial suicide. Rents are about 50% higher, then there is council tax £1200/y, then the water bill £100/m, then the overpriced petrol and electricity.

I would think that many immigrants would be better off staying at home. I guess a few young adventurous types will come to the UK, but since oppotunities elseware in Euope are far better, I think the Boomers, Mail readers and NIMBY's will be quite disappointed.

[okaycuckoo]

I am all for free trade areas and free movement however the issue some have is that with a welfare state in place we need to protect the wage levels of our unskilled otherwise there is no incentive to work . Letting skilled people in is 100% doesn't effect this.

Allowing unskilled workers to compete for wages can cause knock on issues.

We should welcome all people to live and work here ( I say this a ukip voter) but where is the protection for low earners who now have to compete .

Don't get me started on the subsidy this will provide to housing benefit dependant landlords whilst pricing out median wage renters .

Protecting our poorest workers is far more compassionate than any lefty ranting about daily mail etc but I suppose some people want cheaper cleaners and don't mind whom they exploit

As far as I understand the existing treaties have room for negotiation over freedom of movement of workers/capital/goods. If the UK wants to negotiate a restriction on workers it will have to give way on capital/goods. The likely outcome is the UK pays to keep people away through some kind of transfer to the PIIGS/Romania etc.

If the UK doesn't want to play, then restrictions on capital movement will be imposed. Bye bye Square Mile - or maybe US/Saudi/Russian/Chinese capital can sustain Treasure Island.

[moneyfornothing]

I can't see many new immigrants coming to the UK.

I have been looking at returning myself, and compared to living here in Ireland moving to the UK would be financial suicide. Rents are about 50% higher, then there is council tax £1200/y, then the water bill £100/m, then the overpriced petrol and electricity.

I would think that many immigrants would be better off staying at home. I guess a few young adventurous types will come to the UK, but since oppotunities elseware in Euope are far better, I think the Boomers, Mail readers and NIMBY's will be quite disappointed.

you are right... Those intending to make a living from work will find the UK unattractive ... Which means... I am sure we can derive the corollary..

[Tonkers]

Homelessness is beginning to show on the streets of Londn, very noticeable increase in the last 6 months so we shall see. If you come from a small Easter European town the fight to survive in London will be a shock. I also think that many incomers are completely deluded about our land of milk and honey, in fact the Daily Mail might be weeping but was is not there puff pieces about arriving off the boat and being given a six bed in central London frree and easy that assisted these delusions?

It will be cold and hard for most, my main concern is the NHS buckling under the pressure, that's where it will be felt.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Tonkers

[awaytogo]

Again, why the lazy and factually incorrect Mail crap.

The fact is they have been here for years under Accession Rights as self-employed, even if, in reality they've been employees. All with the connivance of UK employment agencies.

Unlike you, I have first-hand experience.

I have first hand experience my friend , i also have experience of the mass unemployment including 1000000 under 25s, this will not go away with a few words of condolence.

[oracle]

you guys really don't get it do you.

the issue is not about immigrants and the economic contribution they make.

this is now a national security issue.(like food scarcity)...and our illustrious leaders are like judas, willing to sell you for 30 pieces of silver.

let me enlighten you as to what is coming in the not-so distant future( if you would like a little taster, look at some of the attack methods hitler was planning for this country back in the 40's...AND NOW PUT THEM ON STEROIDS).

yes we are talking about further terror attacks, formentation and incitement of civil unrest and when the party gets really rocking an attempted naval blockade to starve EVERYBODY on the island...and then imposition of a supposed "friendly" continental force to quell the unrest and look like saviours.

If you are in ANY doubt whatsoever, then you really need to start LISTENING to the rhetoric of the politicians

this is close folks.

and it's serious.

if we do make it through this in one piece, then there is absolutely no alternative but to come after the perpatrators and execute them.

the yanks/canadians are aware of the continental gameplan and do have countermeasures....but it might take a few months(in which time we could be talking maybe 1/3 of uk dead)

this fascist attack has been underway for at least the last 15 years now.

Edited January 1, 2014 by oracle

[bearwithasorehead]

I have first hand experience my friend , i also have experience of the mass unemployment including 1000000 under 25s, this will not go away with a few words of condolence.

yawn. Mass youth unemployment was an issue long before mass EE immigration in this country. You'll have to do better than that.

'condolence'?? I have only ever been interested in countering the rubbish reposted here from the Mail.

As I said, I know numerous skilled and unskilled EEs incl from Romania - they've been here years on self-employed 'yellow' papers.

Now whether we like that or not is immaterial. The point is that those who might compete with British have been here a while.

This is a non-story. It was nice to see Keith Vaz actually take a straw poll of the first flight to arrive today and surprise, surprise, almost all the Romanians were already resident here.

[SHERWICK]

you guys really don't get it do you.

the issue is not about immigrants and the economic contribution they make.

this is now a national security issue.(like food scarcity)...and our illustrious leaders are like judas, willing to sell you for 30 pieces of silver.

let me enlighten you as to what is coming in the not-so distant future( if you would like a little taster, look at some of the attack methods hitler was planning for this country back in the 40's...AND NOW PUT THEM ON STEROIDS).

yes we are talking about further terror attacks, formentation and incitement of civil unrest and when the party gets really rocking an attempted naval blockade to starve EVERYBODY on the island...and then imposition of a supposed "friendly" continental force to quell the unrest and look like saviours.

If you are in ANY doubt whatsoever, then you really need to start LISTENING to the rhetoric of the politicians

this is close folks.

and it's serious.

if we do make it through this in one piece, then there is absolutely no alternative but to come after the perpatrators and execute them.

the yanks/canadians are aware of the continental gameplan and do have countermeasures....but it might take a few months(in which time we could be talking maybe 1/3 of uk dead)

this fascist attack has been underway for at least the last 15 years now.

Happy New Year oracle!

[Billy soy]

you guys really don't get it do you.

the issue is not about immigrants and the economic contribution they make.

this is now a national security issue.(like food scarcity)...and our illustrious leaders are like judas, willing to sell you for 30 pieces of silver.

let me enlighten you as to what is coming in the not-so distant future( if you would like a little taster, look at some of the attack methods hitler was planning for this country back in the 40's...AND NOW PUT THEM ON STEROIDS).

yes we are talking about further terror attacks, formentation and incitement of civil unrest and when the party gets really rocking an attempted naval blockade to starve EVERYBODY on the island...and then imposition of a supposed "friendly" continental force to quell the unrest and look like saviours.

If you are in ANY doubt whatsoever, then you really need to start LISTENING to the rhetoric of the politicians

this is close folks.

and it's serious.

if we do make it through this in one piece, then there is absolutely no alternative but to come after the perpatrators and execute them.

the yanks/canadians are aware of the continental gameplan and do have countermeasures....but it might take a few months(in which time we could be talking maybe 1/3 of uk dead)

this fascist attack has been underway for at least the last 15 years now.

Are you saying the Romanians and Bulgarians are a vector for terrorists to be brought into the uk?

[Big Orange]

you guys really don't get it do you.

the issue is not about immigrants and the economic contribution they make.

this is now a national security issue.(like food scarcity)...and our illustrious leaders are like judas, willing to sell you for 30 pieces of silver.

let me enlighten you as to what is coming in the not-so distant future( if you would like a little taster, look at some of the attack methods hitler was planning for this country back in the 40's...AND NOW PUT THEM ON STEROIDS).

yes we are talking about further terror attacks, formentation and incitement of civil unrest and when the party gets really rocking an attempted naval blockade to starve EVERYBODY on the island...and then imposition of a supposed "friendly" continental force to quell the unrest and look like saviours.

If you are in ANY doubt whatsoever, then you really need to start LISTENING to the rhetoric of the politicians

this is close folks.

and it's serious.

if we do make it through this in one piece, then there is absolutely no alternative but to come after the perpatrators and execute them.

the yanks/canadians are aware of the continental gameplan and do have countermeasures....but it might take a few months(in which time we could be talking maybe 1/3 of uk dead)

this fascist attack has been underway for at least the last 15 years now.

But mass immigration in the past 10 to 15 has been annoying for the UK underclass.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Big Orange

[DeepLurker]

I can't see many new immigrants coming to the UK.

I have been looking at returning myself, and compared to living here in Ireland moving to the UK would be financial suicide. Rents are about 50% higher, then there is council tax £1200/y, then the water bill £100/m, then the overpriced petrol and electricity.

I would think that many immigrants would be better off staying at home. I guess a few young adventurous types will come to the UK, but since oppotunities elseware in Euope are far better, I think the Boomers, Mail readers and NIMBY's will be quite disappointed.

Except... many immigrants don't come here because the streets are paved with gold.

They come because there's Foxtrot all work back home. Yes, rents might be 50% higher in the UK [1], but when your current income is a big fat zero, it's all academic.

When the alternative is sleeping rough, spending most of your wages on rent doesn't sound too bad.

[1] adjust figure according to country of origin

[awaytogo]

yawn. Mass youth unemployment was an issue long before mass EE immigration in this country. You'll have to do better than that.

'condolence'?? I have only ever been interested in countering the rubbish reposted here from the Mail.

As I said, I know numerous skilled and unskilled EEs incl from Romania - they've been here years on self-employed 'yellow' papers.

Now whether we like that or not is immaterial. The point is that those who might compete with British have been here a while.

This is a non-story. It was nice to see Keith Vaz actually take a straw poll of the first flight to arrive today and surprise, surprise, almost all the Romanians were already resident here.

You need to stop Yawning and keep up with what is going on, under 25s unemployment has been rising since 2001 its not always been a problem on the scale it is now, oh is that about the same time the UK opened up to most of the eastern EU.

You may be fooling yourself, but you don't fool the majority on here.

[petetong]

.

Edited January 1, 2014 by petetong

[Harry Monk]

yawn. Mass youth unemployment was an issue long before mass EE immigration in this country. You'll have to do better than that.

But the point is that members of this website generally, if not unanimously, agree that accommodation costs in the UK are too high. This problem won't be resolved by increasing the demand side of the supply & demand equation in housing while simultaneously increasing the supply side of the supply & demand equation in the labour market.

There's only one political party which seems to understand this, UKIP.

[oracle]

But mass immigration in the past 10 to 15 has been annoying for the UK underclass.

not joking.

33 The word of the Lord came to me: 2 “Son of man, speak to your people and say to them: ‘When I bring the sword against a land, and the people of the land choose one of their men and make him their watchman, 3 and he sees the sword coming against the land and blows the trumpet to warn the people, 4 then if anyone hears the trumpet but does not heed the warning and the sword comes and takes their life, their blood will be on their own head. 5 Since they heard the sound of the trumpet but did not heed the warning, their blood will be on their own head. If they had heeded the warning, they would have saved themselves. 6 But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet to warn the people and the sword comes and takes someone’s life, that person’s life will be taken because of their sin, but I will hold the watchman accountable for their blood.’

look, you look at the people running the EU.

The type of government they finally want to impose has been tried numerous times before.

soviet russia was one if you want a recent experience.

URAGAUY 200 or so years back was another...so this is not a new concept.

BOTH times were a complete and utter disaster( by the way if you look deep enough you will find it is exactly the same group of people with exactly the same ideaology in both of the above cases.)

the likes of barroso, van rompuoy etc do not change their ideaology..they , as einstein put it, are his definition of stupid(in their own heads they like to consider themselves otherwise)

ie keep on repeating the same old mistakes again and again expecting a different result.

[billybong]

Some interesting statistics from Wikipedia

http://

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_in_Europe

http://

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_home_ownership_rate

eu in general

In 2007, 46% of EU households lived in flats, 30% in detached houses and 22% in semi-detached or terraced houses. 65% of households owned their dwelling, 21% paid rent at market rates, 8% paid rent at reduced rates, and 7% lived in free accommodation.

Romania

In 2007, 56% of households in Romania lived in detached houses, 41% in flats, and 3% in semi-detached or terraced houses. 96% of households owned their own homes, 2% rented their accommodation, and 2% lived in free accommodation.

Bulgaria

97% home ownership.

United Kingdom

In 2007, 59% of British households lived in semi-detached or terraced houses, 24% in detached houses, and 18% in flats. 71% of households owned their own homes, 27% rented their accommodation, and 1% lived in free accommodation

Edited January 2, 2014 by billybong

[wotnocrash]

Not only is there very high home ownership in Bulgaria but they are almost all owned outright. My wife is Bulgarian and so we own a small apartment in Sofia, which was cheap enough to buy for cash and sit empty other than for the few visits we have there each year. As a Bulgarian and a banker, she must be one of the least popular people in the UK at the moment!

I do think the issue of immigrants from Romania and Bulgaria is being overdone in the press. These are small countries (Bulgaria population only 7.5m), and those that wanted to leave already have (Bulgaria population down from 9m to 7.5m since end of communism). Many are very highly educated (degrees from the US and MBA's from the top schools) and with very good jobs in the City.

The likes of Bulgaria and Romania have much more to be worried about with the continuing brain drain than we do with a possible influx of additional immigrants.

Some interesting statistics from Wikipedia

http://

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_in_Europe

http://

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_home_ownership_rate

[Niall of the Nine Hostages]

Not only is there very high home ownership in Bulgaria but they are almost all owned outright. My wife is Bulgarian and so we own a small apartment in Sofia, which was cheap enough to buy for cash and sit empty other than for the few visits we have there each year. As a Bulgarian and a banker, she must be one of the least popular people in the UK at the moment!

I do think the issue of immigrants from Romania and Bulgaria is being overdone in the press. These are small countries (Bulgaria population only 7.5m), and those that wanted to leave already have (Bulgaria population down from 9m to 7.5m since end of communism). Many are very highly educated (degrees from the US and MBA's from the top schools) and with very good jobs in the City.

Well, personally speaking, the Roma concern me a lot more than Bulgarian bankers or Romanian bankers for that matter.

The likes of Bulgaria and Romania have much more to be worried about with the continuing brain drain than we do with a possible influx of additional immigrants.

so, its a bad deal for Britain, Bulgaria and Romania - so who gets to benefit?

[wotnocrash]

Well, personally speaking, the Roma concern me a lot more than Bulgarian bankers or Romanian bankers for that matter.

so, its a bad deal for Britain, Bulgaria and Romania - so who gets to benefit?

Its probably the individuals who are making the move to better their life chances that will benefit. There are plenty of British people that could learn from this, e.g. moving from the declining northern towns and cities to where the jobs are in the south rather than sitting at home a claiming the dole.