The Bubbly Bitcoin Thread -- Merged Threads

[Eddie_George]

14 minutes ago, markyh said:

After yesterday’s fees discussion these people panic selling must be paying a fortune if fees to get their btc from wallet to exchange to sell for Fiat? The miners must be banditing it the fees department overnight with demand. 

Most likely all of their coins are still on the exchange.

[ThePrufeshanul]

22 minutes ago, canbuywontbuy said:

LOL - if you think the entire crypto space is nothing but "eTulips" you know nothing about it at all.  There's lots of good ideas out there that will save banks (yes, banks), businesses and individuals a lot of time and money - depending on the token and blockchain used.  Banks and big business have already bought into this technology and are already using it.  Some ideas off the top of my head now in development or actually being used:-

• bridge currency between two cross-border fiat currencies - making cross-border payments possible to make in under 4 seconds and virtually free (in region of $0.0001)  - XRP
• near-instant and free micropayments possible from individual to individual (a network like Stellar (XLM) makes this possible) - will open up the world of micro-payment jobs
• buy and sell electricity between individual properties automatically (POWR)
• disintermediate e-commerce platforms - buyer and seller don't need a 3rd party for purchase of digital products/services
• disintermediate payment gateways - "PayPal 2.0" will be a blockchain
• proof-of-identity via blockchain - no need to keep signing up over and over to different platforms - put your identity in one place for platforms to fetch it (CVC)
• prove a product's source and journey (WTC, VET) - put a product's inventory history on the blockchain which will heavily reduce counterfeit goods
• decentralised mesh-network internet (SUB) - circumvent government control and loss of net neutrality via a decentralised internet on a blockchain

These are some of the ideas possible with a trustless, immutable and decentralised "database".

Great post - check out Request network for Paypal 2.0

[thewig]

4 minutes ago, evetsm said:

Except when it wasn't a bubble, but the uptake of a new disruptive tech

yeah I don't have a clue about the fundamentals, everything is contained in the chart!

[doomed]

[canbuywontbuy]

2 minutes ago, ThePrufeshanul said:

Great post - check out Request network for Paypal 2.0

That's the one I was thinking of - and in extension to that, consider the ramifications of accounting / auditing considering blockchains contain immutable records >> https://tax.thomsonreuters.com/blog/business/technology/blockchain-accounting-and-audit-what-accountants-need-to-know/

 

Edited December 22, 2017 by canbuywontbuy

[markyh]

1 minute ago, Eddie_George said:

Most likely all of their coins are still on the exchange.

Then like Adamlancs said they are Idiots and deserve all they get. 

[evetsm]

21 minutes ago, thewig said:

yeah I don't have a clue about the fundamentals, everything is contained in the chart!

You mean this chart?

See s-curve adoption for comparison

 

 

Pullback was waay overdue!

Edited December 22, 2017 by evetsm

[hotblack42]

Shoot me down, but a few members seems a bit obsessed with this thread.  There are a lot of threads on HOUSEpricecrash and other things to do in general than aggressively defend Bitcoin (e.g. see family and friends at Christmas?).  The other thing that's odd is the severe reaction to any mild criticism of any aspect of it.  Do people really expect hard bitten HPC'ers to parade around saying how amazing and great Bitcoin is?  Your average HPC member looks a gift horse in the mouth, twice, using a magnifying glass and high intensity headlamp.

Cryptocurrency/Blockchain is a financial innovation that will take its place within the range of financial instruments.  Its not going to usurp global finance, partly because its is not as revolutionary as some believe, but mainly because it doesn't meet all the requirements of global finance and wholesale and retail trade (this is my field).  The bubble is mildly interesting in terms of its familiar trajectory, but it'll be old news in fairly short order.

A few people have made big paper gains, a subset of those have actually cashed out large profits.  This is terribly interesting to them, but not very interesting or useful to anyone else.

Further informative posts giving reasoned arguments for the valuation, or sober impartial predictions welcome.

'You don't understand', 'It's different this time', 'You must work for a bank' 'It's going to the moon' type posts are unwelcome, patronising and make the poster look a bit silly to be honest.  And for balance, the schadenfreude stuff doesn't impress either, unless its genuinely funny. 

[evetsm]

35 minutes ago, canbuywontbuy said:

That's the one I was thinking of - and in extension to that, consider the ramifications of accounting / auditing considering blockchains contain immutable records >> https://tax.thomsonreuters.com/blog/business/technology/blockchain-accounting-and-audit-what-accountants-need-to-know/

 

Bingo. ! That's the huge win for bitcoin. Satoshi calls it social scaling. And that will save the truly big bucks, way, way more than simple fees. Hack away the red tape, redundancies, bloated bureaucracies with immutable freely accessible records and contracts , with easy p2p built-in payments. That's what btrash goons cannot get their heads around. It's much, much more than dumb fees ! It's about turning the known world upside down.

http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2017/02/money-blockchains-and-social-scalability.html

 

Edited December 22, 2017 by evetsm

[wsn03]

46 minutes ago, thewig said:

said everyone who rode a bubble down ever

LOL !!

[goldbug9999]

15 minutes ago, hotblack42 said:

Further informative posts giving reasoned arguments for the valuation, or sober impartial predictions welcome.

Hey thanks we were waiting for someone like you come onto this thread and tell us how to behave, I dont know how we managed this last 5 years all on our own honest.

And since you ask ...

This is completely on topic for HPC, because its about how we recapture the wealth that is being stolen from us by the banking system and fiat currency manipulation, which includes loose lending and all that other stuff.

You see prior to crypto the flow of wealth looked like this:

pleb earning a wage -> asset owners -> banks

But we've now invented this new thing which means that at some point in the future it will be:

pleb earning a wage -> asset owners -> banks -> cypto

Hence by owning cypto the wage earning pleb (us) will be able to recapture the wealth that is being stolen from them.

Edited December 22, 2017 by goldbug9999

[canbuywontbuy]

19 minutes ago, hotblack42 said:

Shoot me down, but a few members seems a bit obsessed with this thread.  There are a lot of threads on HOUSEpricecrash and other things to do in general than aggressively defend Bitcoin (e.g. see family and friends at Christmas?).  The other thing that's odd is the severe reaction to any mild criticism of any aspect of it.  Do people really expect hard bitten HPC'ers to parade around saying how amazing and great Bitcoin is?  Your average HPC member looks a gift horse in the mouth, twice, using a magnifying glass and high intensity headlamp.

Cryptocurrency/Blockchain is a financial innovation that will take its place within the range of financial instruments.  Its not going to usurp global finance, partly because its is not as revolutionary as some believe, but mainly because it doesn't meet all the requirements of global finance and wholesale and retail trade (this is my field).  The bubble is mildly interesting in terms of its familiar trajectory, but it'll be old news in fairly short order.

A few people have made big paper gains, a subset of those have actually cashed out large profits.  This is terribly interesting to them, but not very interesting or useful to anyone else.

Further informative posts giving reasoned arguments for the valuation, or sober impartial predictions welcome.

'You don't understand', 'It's different this time', 'You must work for a bank' 'It's going to the moon' type posts are unwelcome, patronising and make the poster look a bit silly to be honest.  And for balance, the schadenfreude stuff doesn't impress either, unless its genuinely funny. 

Well, it's you who seems upset that one single thread out of thousands on this forum talks about cryptocurrencies.  If you don't think think the blockchain is breakthrough technology, then yes, I can say with confidence that you don't understand the implications of a trustless, immutable and decentralised database.  These will just appear as abstract and meaningless concepts to you.  To those that matter - developers, entrepreneurs, banks, business owners and consumers - the benefits of this new technology have become / will become clear as time passes.  Citing just one real-world example, cryptocurrencies will become the bridge currency for all cross-border settlements in a matter of a year or two.  No more vostro or nostro accounts, no more 2 to 3 day wait for an international payment to be settled, and all done at a fraction of a penny, opening up the reality of micropayments being made internationally bank to bank at near-zero cost, settled in under 5 seconds - that alone is revolutionary and will influence how money is circulated.  Anyway, as you were - shall we just get back to talking about the tulip-bubble-thing again?

Edited December 22, 2017 by canbuywontbuy

[hotblack42]

3 minutes ago, goldbug9999 said:

Hey thanks we were waiting for someone like you come onto this thread and tell us how to behave,

You didn't see my post before I toned it down LOL.  FYI I was on HPC 10 years ago but had other stuff to do a few years back.

3 minutes ago, goldbug9999 said:

But we've now invented this new thing which means that at some point in the future it will be:

pleb earning a wage -> asset owners -> banks -> cypto

Yes, very possibly.  Evolution not revolution.  Can't get too excited as I'm not cross at the banks but then I've worked for a couple.  Bit cross about the politicians rigging the market so that Investment Bankers could make hay, indirectly making some politicians wealthy and making house too expensive for young adults (for now).

I would be excited if I'd made big gains on cryptocurrencies, but wouldn't bore anyone else about it.

[jiltedjen]

you must work for a bank!

I’m going to love reading this thread back in 10 years. Some people are going to look very silly, probably me to be honest.

theres not really a middle ground with bitcoin, it’s either gold 2.0 or it’s nothing. there’s no inbetween. 

[hotblack42]

11 minutes ago, canbuywontbuy said:

Well, it's you who seems upset that one single thread out of thousands on this forum talks about cryptocurrencies.  If you don't think think the blockchain is breakthrough technology, then yes, I can say with confidence that you don't understand the implications of a trustless, immutable and decentralised database.  These will just appear as abstract and meaningless concepts to you.  To those that matter - developers, entrepreneurs, banks, business owners and consumers - the benefits of this new technology have become / will become clear as time passes.  Cryptocurrencies will become the bridge currency for all cross-border settlements in a matter of a year or two.  No more vostro or nostro accounts, no more 2 to 3 day wait for an international payment to be settled, and all done at a fraction of a penny.  That's quite a big deal, actually. 

Well, by the logic above as an Analyst in the IT department of a stockbroker I must matter.  Brilliant news!

Multiple choice: how many of our I/Ms and Dealers have Bitcoin holdings, or are recommending it to clients?  is it a)  5%, b, 2%, or C 0%?

You do have a point about understanding the implications, I will go away and do more research on top of the reasonable insight I have into Blockchains, and the decoupling of Cryptocurrency storage and transfers from the current global banking infrastructure.

I am not upset, honestly.  I can't promise not to get upset though if I return here and demonstrate the insight I clearly currently lack, only to be ignored, abused or told 'ah yes, you do understand the implications, but you don't understand xxxxx, rinse and repeat.

 

[ThePrufeshanul]

There's already some very interesting posts to read from some of the present contributors from 2014

[hotblack42]

13 minutes ago, jiltedjen said:

you must work for a bank!

I’m going to love reading this thread back in 10 years. Some people are going to look very silly, probably me to be honest.

theres not really a middle ground with bitcoin, it’s either gold 2.0 or it’s nothing. there’s no inbetween. 

Very incisive.  Both positions are wrong (well at least if you subsitiute Blockchain for Bitcoin) so there's always going to be a punch up.

The subtle difference in angles of attack isinteresting though.  The skeptics are criticising the mechanism, whilst the fans are attacking the skeptics.  As you say, this thread will be very funny in the future.

[dgul]

1 hour ago, markyh said:

After yesterday’s fees discussion these people panic selling must be paying a fortune if fees to get their btc from wallet to exchange to sell for Fiat? The miners must be banditing it the fees department overnight with demand. 

I see actual blockchain transactions down a bit -- If there's panic selling it's all off-chain.

Anyway, transactions fees appear stable at about $130 per.  

I'd say all the action will be at the exchange level; they'll also be making income from the spread.

[dgul]

46 minutes ago, jiltedjen said:

you must work for a bank!

I’m going to love reading this thread back in 10 years. Some people are going to look very silly, probably me to be honest.

theres not really a middle ground with bitcoin, it’s either gold 2.0 or it’s nothing. there’s no inbetween. 

I'd absolutely agree with that.  I'd say the prob. of gold2 is quite low, though.

[dgul]

1 hour ago, canbuywontbuy said:

Well, it's you who seems upset that one single thread out of thousands on this forum talks about cryptocurrencies.  If you don't think think the blockchain is breakthrough technology, then yes, I can say with confidence that you don't understand the implications of a trustless, immutable and decentralised database.  These will just appear as abstract and meaningless concepts to you.  To those that matter - developers, entrepreneurs, banks, business owners and consumers - the benefits of this new technology have become / will become clear as time passes.  Citing just one real-world example, cryptocurrencies will become the bridge currency for all cross-border settlements in a matter of a year or two.  No more vostro or nostro accounts, no more 2 to 3 day wait for an international payment to be settled, and all done at a fraction of a penny, opening up the reality of micropayments being made internationally bank to bank at near-zero cost, settled in under 5 seconds - that alone is revolutionary and will influence how money is circulated.  Anyway, as you were - shall we just get back to talking about the tulip-bubble-thing again?

You're both linking blockchain to crypto too strongly.

Blockchain is a revolutionary technology.  It'll be everywhere soon.

Cryptocurrency?  An interestinging/academic application of blockchain.

[evetsm]

12 minutes ago, dgul said:

You're both linking blockchain to crypto too strongly.

Blockchain is a revolutionary technology.  It'll be everywhere soon.

Cryptocurrency?  An interestinging/academic application of blockchain.

How do you secure the decentralized blockchain if not with crypto ? Players must be rewarded with the coin that they toil so hard to secure. Fiat won't do.

Banks have been trying to get that right for years with no success. See the failed R3 project for details.

[goldbug9999]

6 minutes ago, evetsm said:

How do you secure the decentralized blockchain if not with crypto ? Players must be rewarded with the coin that they toil so hard to secure. Fiat won't do.

Banks have been trying to get that right for years with no success. See the failed R3 project for details.

Indeed, a blockchains is as a decentralised immutable ledger, it can only be immutable if there is sufficient resources expended on securing it such that no single person organisation or state can coopt the network. If all you need is a shared common view of the state of something amoungst parties that already trust each other then a plain old database is much better.

[kudukid]

1 hour ago, jiltedjen said:

you must work for a bank!

I’m going to love reading this thread back in 10 years. Some people are going to look very silly, probably me to be honest.

theres not really a middle ground with bitcoin, it’s either gold 2.0 or it’s nothing. there’s no inbetween. 

Comparing it to gold is just rediculous.

 

Totally rediculous. 

 

So.......................

[mynamehere]

Seems to me that now BTC in current form is considered unlikley to f the future of currency, it is bit of a lottery ticket, with the prize being access to some future 1% elite. 

But this is confusing, as it used to be that decentralised crypto was a path to financial revolution and hostile take over of current institutions. 

Which is mad. Governments have lots of assets and power, control of currency being just one, then there is military, trade agreements, natural resources etc. The idea that some kids storing electrical gold is going to change teh world in the next 10 years is kinda nuts. 

Also interesting to see folk on here who in general favour value investing based on fundamentals, start speculating on assets without current value to society. 

[kudukid]

3 minutes ago, mynamehere said:

Seems to me that now BTC in current form is considered unlikley to f the future of currency, it is bit of a lottery ticket, with the prize being access to some future 1% elite. 

But this is confusing, as it used to be that decentralised crypto was a path to financial revolution and hostile take over of current institutions. 

Which is mad. Governments have lots of assets and power, control of currency being just one, then there is military, trade agreements, natural resources etc. The idea that some kids storing electrical gold is going to change teh world in the next 10 years is kinda nuts. 

Also interesting to see folk on here who in general favour value investing based on fundamentals, start speculating on assets without current value to society. 

Quite