25 Per Cent Of Couples May Put Off Having Children Until Their 40S Or Forget The Idea Because Of Worries Over Money

[interestrateripoff]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2421033/Money-worries-cause-25-couples-having-children-40s.html

Middle-aged pregnancies are increasingly popular as couples bide their time to save money, figures reveal.

Fearing the cost of childcare, extra food, schooling and housing, millions of couples cannot fathom having children before their 40s.

Hundreds of thousands of people in their 20s and 30s have accepted that they will have to rule out a family altogether.

Sixteen per cent of 25 to 39-year-olds want to have a baby in the next year but will not because they cannot afford it.

No details of the incomes of these people being put off, I wonder if these are those just out of the tax credit system? Could we be entering a time point where only the "poor" and wealthy can have children and if you fall out of the state tax subsidy you can't afford to have children as your income is getting eaten up in housing / travel costs?

I'd like to see the data behind this.

[TheNoSnowMan]

Is there really ever a good time, financially, to have kids?

If you want kids, you should have kids and not delay it until the wife is full of cobwebs just so you can maintain your current lifestyle for a little longer.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Its because in some quarters, raising your children in rental accommodation is tantamount to child abuse.

[TheCountOfNowhere]

Does it mention that when a woman hits 40 the problems in childbirth shoot up !!!

I'd suggest to anyone wanting a family, have them young and sponge of the state, it's the trendy thing to do.

[Wurzel Of Highbridge]

I can't see that bring up children in an environment where they can be kicked out of their rented family home every 6/12 months is great either.

A home where they are not allowed pets

A home where they are not allowed to decorate

Switching schools and moving away from friends every couple of years because the landlord wanted you out.

It's not all roses renting, but not as bad as some make out. Council houses with long leases were a great solution to these problems, atleast then people could grow up in a stable environment with family and friends nearby.

[SarahBell]

Is it cos they think children take up lots of room?

http://www.netmums.com/coffeehouse/house-garden-194/money-finance-entitlements-267/249801-anyone-living-2-bed-house-2-kids-all.html

This thread is interesting reading.

People thinking a 2 bed house is too small for 2 children...

[Ah-so]

If only the developing world had the same worries. Population growth would disappear as a concern.

[Guest unfunded_liability]

[Goat]

Is there really ever a good time, financially, to have kids?

Any time when the average 3 bed house doesn't cost 10 times the average wage.

[papag]

Its not stopping those young ones on benefits they are breading like rabbits.Cant think why

[Self Employed Youth]

Its not stopping those young ones on benefits they are breading like rabbits.Cant think why

The amount of teenage pregnancies has been falling for a very long time now.

The average age of a 'new' mother has increased to record highs.

The birth rate has remained below replacement level for 42 years.

[Habeas Domus]

Is there really ever a good time, financially, to have kids?

If you want kids, you should have kids and not delay it until the wife is full of cobwebs just so you can maintain your current lifestyle for a little longer.

Theres a difference between having fewer holidays and making do with a cheap car - as has always been the case and not being able to put food on the table.

I know plenty of couples with good jobs who have been putting it off and putting it off, and then they land a high pressure senior job, mortgage themselves up to the neck and finally buy a house - but by then the conversation becomes: "where would we find the time?"

Still if theres a dearth of FTBs in 20 years time maybe we will finally get the HPC.

[Goat]

The amount of teenage pregnancies has been falling for a very long time now.

The average age of a 'new' mother has increased to record highs.

The birth rate has remained below replacement level for 42 years.

If you look at this chart Age - specific profiles of fertility rates , 1970 - 2009 you'll notice that the uk births profile is seriously out of step with most of the rest of Europe. (Thanks in advance if anyone can work out how to post this into the forum).

The first thing to notice is that births to mothers aged 20 and under are something like 3 times as common as in most other countries.

The second thing to notice is that the shape of the curve is all wrong. Most countries follow a normal symetrical bell curve around a peak fertility age of about 31, the UK's fertility curve is noticably distorted amongst mothers up to the age of about 25, there are clearly far more of them than there should be.

Finally notice that up until age 25 things are virtually unchanged since 1995, the changes to the profile are amongst older women only, which kind of implies that only older women have been affected by the housing bubble (i.e. younger ones are unaffected due to their entitlement to state benefits).

Something is clearly affecting the UK's profile, the obvious candidate is the benefits system.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Goat

[XswampyX]

Here you go.

It's just a graph of stress. Massive improvements in productivity, science, technology. And we get this graph?

It's not the utopia I was promised, I think someone has been stealing it from us.

[Self Employed Youth]

If you look at this chart Age - specific profiles of fertility rates , 1970 - 2009 you'll notice that the uk births profile is seriously out of step with most of the rest of Europe. (Thanks in advance if anyone can work out how to post this into the forum).

The first thing to notice is that births to mothers aged 20 and under are something like 3 times as common as in most other countries.

But have been falling since the 70s relative to the UK. And if you look at other countries their birth rates have also fallen and the age of birth has gotten older too.

I see what you say about us relatvie to the rest of Europe, but perhaps that is because of our immigration (you can see large falls in EE countries and Ireland that are suffering from emigration of the youth).

The second thing to notice is that the shape of the curve is all wrong. Most countries follow a normal symetrical bell curve around a peak fertility age of about 31, the UK's fertility curve is noticably distorted amongst mothers up to the age of about 25, there are clearly far more of them than there should be.

It looks more like there is a lot of mothers aged 21-31 missing, i.e. they are postponing having children, probably because they live like children in their childhood bedrooms.

The symmetrical bell curve does not appear normal to me. The normal pattern seems to be skewed to the right. I.e. Lots of births in early age, peaking in late twenties, then rapidly tailing off. This has been the case for hundreds of years up until recently.

Finally notice that up until age 25 things are virtually unchanged since 1995, the changes to the profile are amongst older women only, which kind of implies that only older women have been affected by the housing bubble (i.e. younger ones are unaffected due to their entitlement to state benefits).

Look at the changes from the 1970s realative to the more recent years. Young people are clearly postponing childbirth.

Something is clearly affecting the UK's profile, the obvious candidate is the benefits system.

It isn't the benefit system IMO. Wages have been falling in real terms whilst housing costs have risen in real terms, from the 70s.

Something has clearly been affecting the birth rates and ages across Europe over the past 40 years.

[LiveinHope]

Something has clearly been affecting the birth rates and ages across Europe over the past 40 years.

Both parents working > Greater family income > Higher houseprices > More work > Less time > Child care costs etc etc

Alternatively

Edited September 17, 2013 by LiveinHope

[wherebee]

But have been falling since the 70s relative to the UK. And if you look at other countries their birth rates have also fallen and the age of birth has gotten older too.

I see what you say about us relatvie to the rest of Europe, but perhaps that is because of our immigration (you can see large falls in EE countries and Ireland that are suffering from emigration of the youth).

It looks more like there is a lot of mothers aged 21-31 missing, i.e. they are postponing having children, probably because they live like children in their childhood bedrooms.

The symmetrical bell curve does not appear normal to me. The normal pattern seems to be skewed to the right. I.e. Lots of births in early age, peaking in late twenties, then rapidly tailing off. This has been the case for hundreds of years up until recently.

Look at the changes from the 1970s realative to the more recent years. Young people are clearly postponing childbirth.

It isn't the benefit system IMO. Wages have been falling in real terms whilst housing costs have risen in real terms, from the 70s.

Something has clearly been affecting the birth rates and ages across Europe over the past 40 years.

Could be good news in the long run though in extending human lifespan, as the selection pressures will be for those who survive into middle age and remain healthy

coo - I have brought genetic selection into it. Godwin time?

[Tired of Waiting]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2421033/Money-worries-cause-25-couples-having-children-40s.html

No details of the incomes of these people being put off, I wonder if these are those just out of the tax credit system? Could we be entering a time point where only the "poor" and wealthy can have children and if you fall out of the state tax subsidy you can't afford to have children as your income is getting eaten up in housing / travel costs?

I'd like to see the data behind this.

+ 1

Same thoughts here.

[Tired of Waiting]

If you look at this chart Age - specific profiles of fertility rates , 1970 - 2009 you'll notice that the uk births profile is seriously out of step with most of the rest of Europe. (Thanks in advance if anyone can work out how to post this into the forum).

The first thing to notice is that births to mothers aged 20 and under are something like 3 times as common as in most other countries.

The second thing to notice is that the shape of the curve is all wrong. Most countries follow a normal symetrical bell curve around a peak fertility age of about 31, the UK's fertility curve is noticably distorted amongst mothers up to the age of about 25, there are clearly far more of them than there should be.

Finally notice that up until age 25 things are virtually unchanged since 1995, the changes to the profile are amongst older women only, which kind of implies that only older women have been affected by the housing bubble (i.e. younger ones are unaffected due to their entitlement to state benefits).

Something is clearly affecting the UK's profile, the obvious candidate is the benefits system.

Great link Goat.

I was going to comment on the same distortion, a bulge above the age 20. BTW, similar to Romania's!, but very different from France's!

(...) perhaps that is because of our immigration (...)

France has more immigrants than we do, and yet their birth/age chart is an almost perfect bell curve (page 4 on Goat's link).

It is our benefits system and housing shortage that perversely incentivises some teenage girls (particularly those with fewer good options, such as going to uni, or a good job/career) to have babies too early.

Tragically the opening scenes of Idiocracy does reflect reality, if exaggerated (a bit) for comic purposes.

.

Edited September 17, 2013 by Tired of Waiting

[iamnumerate]

France has more immigrants than we do, and yet their birth/age chart is an almost perfect bell curve (page 4 on Goat's link).

It is our benefits system and housing shortage that perversely incentivises some teenage girls (particularly those with fewer good options, such as going to uni, or a good job/career) to have babies too early.

Tragically the opening scenes of Idiocracy does reflect reality, if exaggerated (a bit) for comic purposes.

.

The real tragedy is the number of people in denial about this. To be honest I can understand why people respond to incentives - we should stop incentivising them.

[Tired of Waiting]

The real tragedy is the number of people in denial about this. To be honest I can understand why people respond to incentives - we should stop incentivising them.

And these girls are victims too, perhaps the main victims, as many end up as single mothers, struggling to find partners, affection, ... it's a long story. I can't write more now. And it's too depressing.

[porca misèria]

We had the solution before modern feminist ideas upset it.

The union of the 40-year-old man to the 20-year-old woman, where he brings financial stability and she brings fecundity.

[eztiger]

I can't see that bring up children in an environment where they can be kicked out of their rented family home every 6/12 months is great either.

A home where they are not allowed pets

A home where they are not allowed to decorate

Switching schools and moving away from friends every couple of years because the landlord wanted you out.

It's not all roses renting, but not as bad as some make out. Council houses with long leases were a great solution to these problems, atleast then people could grow up in a stable environment with family and friends nearby.

And dont forget the debt burden inherited from previous generations which they will be expected to shoulder while dealing with the above

[TheNoSnowMan]

We had the solution before modern feminist ideas upset it.

I agree. Shame the elites didn't. They wanted all women to be wage slaves too while pushing babies into state run childcare so the indoctrination could begin at the earliest possible stage.

And it's worked out so well.

[Errol]

We had the solution before modern feminist ideas upset it.

The union of the 40-year-old man to the 20-year-old woman, where he brings financial stability and she brings fecundity.

Yep. Just basic biology and makes perfect sense to all parties involved.